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Fractal FM3 FM9 vs Quad Cortex vs Helix and others.
- Thread starter Ögon
- Start date
Another vote for the Quad Cortex here.
When I set up my first custom patch there were already like 40 captures of the Aguilar DB750 and 751 in the database, was really able to tweak the sound i wanted. Lots of routing flexibility if you need it. I use the QC for bass stuff, electric and acoustic (looping with vocals)
I can't speak to Fractal, but my path to the QC consisted of the following.
Helix (to big)
EBS microbass (really low output from DI for some reason, had to run out regular out and then DI, defeated the purpose of the DI out IMO)
Helix Stomp (xl and regular, bass tones weren't great, routing was limited)
Aguilar AG Preamp (tonally felt limited, even with adjusting eq's etc, just didn't get there for me)
Aguilar DB659 (this is one of my favorite simple/fat tones, but its just a singular tone)
headrush prime (absolute trash for bass, does alot but nothing great)
Added bonus not to overlook is the dual paths.
We have a patch set up as a backup for my guitarist where we can both run into the QC direct, and have dedicated outs for each signal as well. Easy back up plan if his system dies. He runs a helix, but we have had two helix's fail in the last two years (two gigs every weekend, so not absurdily heavy use) Just a nice piece of mind for the gig to keep going.
Can't speak to QC reliability completely yet, i have about 100 gigs into it so far, but as far as footprint, flexibility, tone. It has the right value for me.
Was REALLY looking at the FM3 when it first came out cause of two things, IEC power cord, and DI out in that footprint, no one else is doing, but couldn't get my hands on one to test.
I run my QC with a CIOKS power supply and can also power my wireless shure system from is as well, so that solved my gripe about the power supply not being IEC (its just a preference)
Good luck on the GAS.
When I set up my first custom patch there were already like 40 captures of the Aguilar DB750 and 751 in the database, was really able to tweak the sound i wanted. Lots of routing flexibility if you need it. I use the QC for bass stuff, electric and acoustic (looping with vocals)
I can't speak to Fractal, but my path to the QC consisted of the following.
Helix (to big)
EBS microbass (really low output from DI for some reason, had to run out regular out and then DI, defeated the purpose of the DI out IMO)
Helix Stomp (xl and regular, bass tones weren't great, routing was limited)
Aguilar AG Preamp (tonally felt limited, even with adjusting eq's etc, just didn't get there for me)
Aguilar DB659 (this is one of my favorite simple/fat tones, but its just a singular tone)
headrush prime (absolute trash for bass, does alot but nothing great)
Added bonus not to overlook is the dual paths.
We have a patch set up as a backup for my guitarist where we can both run into the QC direct, and have dedicated outs for each signal as well. Easy back up plan if his system dies. He runs a helix, but we have had two helix's fail in the last two years (two gigs every weekend, so not absurdily heavy use) Just a nice piece of mind for the gig to keep going.
Can't speak to QC reliability completely yet, i have about 100 gigs into it so far, but as far as footprint, flexibility, tone. It has the right value for me.
Was REALLY looking at the FM3 when it first came out cause of two things, IEC power cord, and DI out in that footprint, no one else is doing, but couldn't get my hands on one to test.
I run my QC with a CIOKS power supply and can also power my wireless shure system from is as well, so that solved my gripe about the power supply not being IEC (its just a preference)
Good luck on the GAS.
Hello,
I've been using a good quality tube preamp with some other pedals for a while now and longing for new sounds. In terms of reliability, sound options, size and ease of transport, it seems like high quality multi-fx unit is a far better choice then separate pedals / di nowadays.
I'm looking for an all in one solution bass guitar playing and electric guitar, that will sound good using bass or electric-guitar.
* Realistic natural feel and good low mid mids / tube amp modelling or captures. No digital shrill or dull sounding experience. (most multi fx struggle with that)
* Quality octaver, chorus and tremolo effects
* Lush reverb sounds for ambient / funk / rock
* Usable amp-tones for funk, soul and rock. ( not only heavy gain sounds, but also layback tubey / crunchy / slightly overdriven sounds )
* I don't care about how much amp models or how much choruses or reverbs a unit has, i only care about the quality of them.
* Changing a few settings during a rehearsal or gig must be possible on the unit itself.
* I am willing to struggle through an hard interface if that gives me my dream sounds (reason why the fm3/fm9 is mentioned) Sound quality is what matters most.
* Reliable
* XLR out
* 2 inputs are not necessary, i don't play both bass and electric guitar in one gig.
* Price is not a criteria, but its good to set a limit, most units are under $ 2000 / € 2000 and that price-limit is alright.
On internet there are not a lot of Neural DSP Quad Cortex or Fractal audio units bass demo's, and also not a lot of bass multi-fx comparisons in general, sadly.
I am curious about your experiences and opinions .. !!
Thank you.
IvanBassist
Commercial User
- Jun 8, 2008
- 3,756
- 11,160
- Disclosures
- Content Manager at Darkglass Electronics, Dingwall Guitars Artist
Did some online researching today...
I'm really picky about sound quality. Honestly, the line 6 stuff can sound ok/great, but the electric guitar tones seem to have a nicer feel and quality on the Quad Cortex and the Fractal products. They both are very close. The QC is faster to adjust on the fly, but fractal seems alright if you spend time with it to know how it works. There are some tricks to speed it up:
Nice to have you here Ivan, i'm a fan of your videos, very good quality demos..and also fan your Super P dingwall..
can you tell me anything about the octavers, choruses on the QC? Any good for bass?
I rarely use any of that for my own playing. The octavers are “okay” depending what you’re looking for. There is no OC-2 sound at the moment, but if you’re looking for a clean octave that tracks remarkably well, then you’re good to go.
Cannot comment on the chorus.
FYI the Stomp XL does not have XLR out, most of the time 1/4” is fine but I have used a TRS to XLR adapter so there are ways to work around it.
The FM3 you could probably get used for $1k or so. A guitarist I play with used to work there and has the first one ever built, he’s had it for like idk 6 years now? It’s worked flawlessly the entire time.
+1000 on this ^^^^
It is highly recommended that the tones you create are done so on the best possible full-range, flat-response (FRFR) speakers you can get your hands on, and in context at gig levels when possible. So many times I've read where new adopters of all-in-one solutions shoot their financial load on just the modeler, and then can't figure out why it doesn't WOW the pants off of them while listening back through a speaker system that isn't anywhere near on par with the modeler they've just purchased.
It's all well and good to home brew tones, but at some point they'll need to be refined when using the full PA/monitor system in context. There's no magic bullet here. It takes time, effort, and know-how for everything to finally click, regardless of what modeler you use. And if you have a regular sound tech/mixer, work with them on this.
Yep I learned that when I was making my presets on studio monitors and then plugged into my friend's PA.
I then get a 12" powered PA speaker and it was way better. I added a sub and now we are talking! Even the guitar patches are benefiting from the sub as the top now has a 100Hz crossover point and I still needed to cut down on low frequencies that were not present without the sub and sounded a little boomy (nothing that cannot be eq'ed on the mixer but still annoying to me).
I then get a 12" powered PA speaker and it was way better. I added a sub and now we are talking! Even the guitar patches are benefiting from the sub as the top now has a 100Hz crossover point and I still needed to cut down on low frequencies that were not present without the sub and sounded a little boomy (nothing that cannot be eq'ed on the mixer but still annoying to me).
Most monitors are not flat response, that is the problem yes. (mostly not good lows and only good high mids and treble.. ) Although i do understand why they are not flat, makes dialling in monitor sounds easier. FRFR makes it easier to hear when you are doing something wrong.
Ive experienced similar things when using a preamp and also using a bass amp on stage.. for example, if you use scooped mids sound and boost the lows quite a bit, or use a heavy cab sim with extra lows that sits well in the mix in your headphones... then it can become too much on a real stage because your amp and the subs will produce the lows together and it becomes too much. I always cut all the lows on my amp because of that reason, makes it sound much better on stage, especially with subs under the stage. Subs produce your lows, your amp produces low-mids high-mids and highs. Also helps to hear the kick better.
Besides that, a sound should always be dialled in while using a full band-mix, not when playing solo.
Nice. Very reliable it seems. Funny and interesting note: I noticed online a lot of musicians are scared of the possibility of having a broken Fractal product on stage because they are hard to get (only by their online own shop), and at the same time i did not find anyone online complaining about a broken Fractal product. I did read about broken Quad Cortexes and Line 6 products, QC more then Line 6, although it's probably quite rare on the scale it has been sold, and because of that reason not something i am scared about or is a decisive criteria for me.
Kinda sucks the HX stomp does not have XLR / DI out. I don't understand why they not put it in there. Probably marketing to sell the bigger units.. Full metal adapters like that put extra stress and wear on your inputs.. and also in the metal adapter itself. A conversion cable with for example 10cm length is more reliable.
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Main Outs are TRS balanced. I'm simply using my self-soldered TRS-to-XLR adapter, setting the outputs to "Instrument" level. But I'm also always taking a Tech21 QStrip with me as an "emergency backup" anyway, so in case of some unwanted noise (like on my last gig) that would have required more thorough troubleshooting, I go via the QStrip; problem solved within a minute.
In case of HX Stomp: lack of available space, obviously. The inside is crammed.
In case of Stomp XL: the space is there, so it's likely marketing.
Yep, definitely avoid. Use a patch cable adapter.
Also a thing to be careful with a Stomp:
The USB-B socket.
Always unplug the cable when not in use. The plastic middle part of the socket is apparently prone to break off very easily, as reported many times on the Helix forum
i would advice to always use angled plugs on every pedal board device, it prevents of having the risk sockets becomming weak when you acidently hit the cable/device or step on something... and my wiring-management OCD also likes it, haha.
Okay, will have to check online for demos. I noticed you use de Noble DI together with the QC. What's the reason for that? Do you use it in front or in effects loop or after?
IvanBassist
Commercial User
- Jun 8, 2008
- 3,756
- 11,160
- Disclosures
- Content Manager at Darkglass Electronics, Dingwall Guitars Artist
I used to use it after the QC to take advantage of its transformer DI, but i’m not using it like that anymore. I decided to leave the Noble at home to avoid damaging it while touring.Okay, will have to check online for demos. I noticed you use de Noble DI together with the QC. What's the reason for that? Do you use it in front or in effects loop or after?
My board looks like this now
Attachments
For bass, Helix all day. I use Native along with a Morningstar midi controller. For guitar Fractal is hard to ignore. QC has a great footprint but is missing a lot of options present in the Helix and Fractal.
Long story short buy the modeler that has the models you will use because even if Helix has more models overall if what you want is missing, then it's not the right choice for you
Long story short buy the modeler that has the models you will use because even if Helix has more models overall if what you want is missing, then it's not the right choice for you
I've gone to the Headrush prime for everything. While there may not be a huge number of bass specific amp models, I've had no trouble dialing in the tones I want, especially if I use IRs for the cab rather than the modeled cabs. The multiphonic pitch shift was a big selling point for me, as my previous rig made heavy use of a pitchfork with expression pedal, and the choruses are solid. Also the touch screen is really intuitive for setting up patches and making tweaks, and there's also a hands-free edit mode to make tweaks on the fly with just the stomp switches and expression pedal that satisfies my previous habit of turning knobs with my toe to dial things in during rehearsal.
Vocal effects are a nice bonus, and having both stereo xlr and 1/4" outs makes life easy for running to foh, or into the power section of an amp, or whatever.
Apparently I'm sounding as good as ever, since one of my guitarists just bought himself one as well.
Vocal effects are a nice bonus, and having both stereo xlr and 1/4" outs makes life easy for running to foh, or into the power section of an amp, or whatever.
Apparently I'm sounding as good as ever, since one of my guitarists just bought himself one as well.
From my online research, the helix stomp xl, quad cortex and Fm3 seem to fit me most.
But i have to agree.. the helix seems to sound a bit dull compared to the QC and Fm3 and it has less sub low end.
Thought about the QC and the Fm3.. QC has more way more bass amps / captures, much easier to use. Although the Fm3 is more difficult, the guitar sounds are very awesome. My decision for the Fm3 is based on that.. cant judge bass sounds because online bass sound demo's of the Fm3 / fm9 / axe fx are very rare, sadly.
Made the decision to buy secondhand. QC cant be found secondhand in my country.
Found the Fm3 and will try it out when i recieve it.
i know the QC has more bass options, but im not the guy who uses 100 sounds.. i prefer a few good onces, set and forget like a real pedalboard with a good amp, will have to try if the Fm3 has good bass sounds.. If not, i sell it and i buy the QC new somewhere.
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FWIW, you can absolutely get fine bass sounds from the FM3 (or any of the Fractal current line of products). The devil is in the details. Many bassists are going to want a fairly simple signal path for a traditional core tone, but if you want to get more complex with split path processing, you have that at your disposal. You may want to do A/B comparisons with and without cabinet IRs, or using a Parametric EQ instead of IRs. This is a preference thing, and I find either to be a valid choice depending on what you like.From my online research, the helix stomp xl, quad cortex and Fm3 seem to fit me most.
But i have to agree.. the helix seems to sound a bit dull compared to the QC and Fm3 and it has less sub low end.
Thought about the QC and the Fm3.. QC has more way more bass amps / captures, much easier to use. Although the Fm3 is more difficult, the guitar sounds are very awesome. My decision for the Fm3 is based on that.. cant judge bass sounds because online bass sound demo's of the Fm3 / fm9 / axe fx are very rare, sadly.
Made the decision to buy secondhand. QC cant be found secondhand in my country.
Found the Fm3 and will try it out when i recieve it.
i know the QC has more bass options, but im not the guy who uses 100 sounds.. i prefer a few good onces, set and forget like a real pedalboard with a good amp, will have to try if the Fm3 has good bass sounds.. If not, i sell it and i buy the QC new somewhere.
Here's a good starting point for basic rock tones (Leon Todd is a great resource for Fractal stuff):
True. Thanks.
Yeah i have seen that video. Leon is clearly a guitar player trying to play bass and trying to dail in bass sounds...He's using old strings and struggles with fingerstyle sadly. (fingerstyle is most important for me) Most Fractal bass related youtube video's are guitar players trying to play bass or heavy metal/rock players and that doesn't do the devices justice.
Besides that, the video does give nice advices and an introduction of what is possible.
A lot to explore in the Fm3, i hope i don't get drowned in all the posibilities haha.
I love the minimalistic clean look and minimalistic amount of buttons on the Fm3. It forces to keep things relatively simple when using it live and focus on enjoying playing bass or guitar.
fm9 does have too much stomp buttons for my liking, hence choice for fm3, but I might add an simple Midi buttons controller though. 3 extra buttons would be nice, makes it a bit easier to change sounds.
Anyway, i think i will have to look for a stage monitor to use with the Fm3 or QC (if that does fancy me more..) Any advice on that? I think it would be nice to have a stage monitor with a low cut switch / dail, to avoid sub build up on stage with subs under stage.
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You may have seen this video?True. Thanks.
Yeah i have seen that video. Leon is clearly a guitar player trying to play bass and trying to dail in bass sounds...He's using old strings and struggles with fingerstyle sadly. (fingerstyle is most important for me) Most Fractal bass related youtube video's are guitar players trying to play bass or heavy metal/rock players and that doesn't do the devices justice.
Besides that, the video does give nice advices and an introduction of what is possible.
A lot to explore in the Fm3, i hope i don't get drowned in all the posibilities haha.
I love the minimalistic clean look and minimalistic amount of buttons on the Fm3. It forces to keep things relatively simple when using it live and focus on enjoying playing bass or guitar.
fm9 does have too much stomp buttons for my liking, hence choice for fm3, but I might add an simple Midi buttons controller though. 3 extra buttons would be nice, makes it a bit easier to change sounds.
Anyway, i think i will have to look for a monitor to use with the Fm3 or QC (if that does fancy me more..) Any advice on that? I think it would be nice to have a monitor with a low cut switch / dail, to avoid sub build up on stage with subs under stage.
As for stage monitoring, it really depends on your typical stage setup in terms of monitoring. If you don't need the bass to carry the room, then you can use just about any "worthy" PA/monitor speaker, depending on your budget. I personally use Atomic CLR (12 coaxial FRFR, excellent for dialing in tones), but usually rely on some excellent provided stage monitors so that I don't need to lug speakers to the gig. Otherwise, like I said, PA/Monitor speakers from any reputable brand (EV, JBL,Yamaha, QSC, RCF, etc.), and you do get what you pay for.
When I have to use a stage amp for smaller gigs with no PA support for bass guitar, I use a GK 1001RBII head powering 1 or 2 traditional ported cabinets loaded with 15" coaxial speakers. Though these cabs aren't flat response, they do allow me the best of both worlds using my modeled tones & effects with the feel & throw required of a traditional rig.
Yeah, i have. Although i rarely use overdrive.. That sound is awesome and full in the video.. Griddy p-bass sound. Nice to see all the routing options in action. Thanks.
This other g66 live use video is really nice too:
The sounds from both videos are probably really killer when using with fingers. That overdrive sits nicely in a mix.
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Plugin integration is around the corner. At that point this will slaughter the competition IMOI decided to go this route over the weekend. mine should arrive in 2 days
