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Frequency Range 4-string and speaker

8

83_Silberpfeil

Aug 15, 2011
432
218
#1
Trying to determine what frequency range of speaker I need. I play the following:

Standard 34" scale 4-string w 21 frets. Active w Bass,Mid,Treb adjustments
Short 30" scale 6-string w 24 frets -- these are know to be 'one octave lower than standard 6-string guitar

According to the diagram in the link below --- the frequency range I need would be:

40 Hz (open E on the 4-string bass) on the low side
1.1 KHz on the high side (on 20th fret on standard guitar --- which is 1 octave higher than my 6-string bass)

The Valve Wizard -Cathode Follower

Would it be correct to interpret that the range I need on the bass cab speaker would be 40 - 1100 Hz "usable frequency"? Am I simplifying? I do use a an Alembic F2B preamp, Chorus pedal, and Digital Delay pedal. Would that increase the high end frequency that I need?

I am considering the following:

Eminence Delta Pro 15A w range of 40 - 4000 HZ (resonance @ 42 Hz)
Official Speaker Repair Site - Orange County Speaker - Home of GLS Audio Eminence Delta-Pro-15A - 400W RMS / 800W Peak 40Hz-4kHz

Eminence Kappa LF2 w range of 37 - 1800 Hz (resonance @ 35 Hz, strange resonance is below usable frequency)
Official Speaker Repair Site - Orange County Speaker - Home of GLS Audio Eminence Kappa-Pro-15LF-2 - 600W RMS / 1200W Peak 38Hz-1.8kHz

So, consider what I play and the effects I use, I have 2 Qs:

1) How high of frequency do I really need?
2) Does the lower usable frequency of 37 Hz (or 35 Hz) really give me that much more bottom end? May be the top end of 1800 Hz limit allows the Kappa to focus more on the bottom end?

Thanks!
 
#2
Don't worry too terribly much about the extreme lower end of the spectrum. Are you looking into a build? If you're shopping replacement speakers for an existing cab, mention the brand and model... it's a bit more complicated than just finding a good speaker.

The reason I say not to worry about the extreme lower end is that you don't need too much energy happening below the 60's. Yeah, there should be something happening down there, but too much down there will rob you of amp power in more easily audible ranges. As long as you don't see a drop of more than 6dB to 9dB between 40 and 60Hz, you'll have enough low end, basically. As long as you're talking about using pro audio speakers with ~ 94+dB sensitivities and the xmax is friendly with low frequency (4+ mm) the speaker is going to give you enough. It's the BOX from there that can make or break the low end.

With the high end, it becomes a bit more subjective. Yes, technically if you get up over 1200Hz, the fundamental frequencies on a standard tuned 4-string start to top out. There's more than that happening there, though. The harmonics for those notes go much higher, and can really add a significant amount of good content. The crux is, however, that HOW high is the "sound good" range for YOU? With a speaker that tops out around 1200 or lower, you would probably want something else helping it out up high. If it is good to 2500-3000, depending on the tone you like, it might be fine without help, it might not. With a speaker that has nice strong response up in the 4000 or higher range, lots of players would be fine with what it can do by itself. Some players like tweeters and speakers that either ARE or can be used as PA speakers, with responses well above 10k. If you find a woofer that can do 97+dB, has a frequency response of 40-10,oooHz, has an x-max of 7+mm, and is rated at 500-600 watts, with a 3" voice coil; call me immediately ;)
 
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#3
83_Silberpfeil said:
...Would it be correct to interpret that the range I need on the bass cab speaker would be 40 - 1100 Hz "usable frequency"?...
1) How high of frequency do I really need?...
Click to expand...

How high can you hear? ;)

The electric bass produces plenty of pitched overtones, and lots of interesting higher transient noise.
For pitched signal, I'd (at a minimum) consider the 8th partial of the highest fretted note on the instrument as part of the "note."

If for simplicity we call that note an E (329.628 Hz), and do the arithmetic (8 x 329.628) we get 2637.024 Hz. That is only to the 8th partial and not including the typical zing, snap, click, etc. that you can get. If you add another octave to be safe, you are near 5.3k Hz. :thumbsup:

That still probably won't cover all the transients. Have you tried a good graphical EQ to get a feel for how much of your tone resides in each part of the audible spectrum? I know some of us, for some styles don't need much above 1.5k Hz, but that is down in Rasta land. :cool:
 
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#4
Ya, trying to match up your cab to the fundamental frequencies of your bass notes is a losing game, because it doesn't take into account transients and the fact that notes on any instrument are way more than just the fundamental, nor does it take into account that some want less usable low end and some want more. Me, I like cabs that go from 40 hz lowest usable frequency to 5 khz highest usable frequency. I dislike tweeters, but 1.5k isn't high enough. And while some like the big deep low end that you can get with some cabs, I prefer lows that are a little more rolled off, similar to an Ampeg 810. So forget the numbers and just get a cab that you like the sound.
 
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#5
83_Silberpfeil said:
Trying to determine what frequency range of speaker I need. I play the following:

Standard 34" scale 4-string w 21 frets. Active w Bass,Mid,Treb adjustments
Short 30" scale 6-string w 24 frets -- these are know to be 'one octave lower than standard 6-string guitar

According to the diagram in the link below --- the frequency range I need would be:

40 Hz (open E on the 4-string bass) on the low side
1.1 KHz on the high side (on 20th fret on standard guitar --- which is 1 octave higher than my 6-string bass)

The Valve Wizard -Cathode Follower

Would it be correct to interpret that the range I need on the bass cab speaker would be 40 - 1100 Hz "usable frequency"? Am I simplifying? I do use a an Alembic F2B preamp, Chorus pedal, and Digital Delay pedal. Would that increase the high end frequency that I need?

I am considering the following:

Eminence Delta Pro 15A w range of 40 - 4000 HZ (resonance @ 42 Hz)
Official Speaker Repair Site - Orange County Speaker - Home of GLS Audio Eminence Delta-Pro-15A - 400W RMS / 800W Peak 40Hz-4kHz

Eminence Kappa LF2 w range of 37 - 1800 Hz (resonance @ 35 Hz, strange resonance is below usable frequency)
Official Speaker Repair Site - Orange County Speaker - Home of GLS Audio Eminence Kappa-Pro-15LF-2 - 600W RMS / 1200W Peak 38Hz-1.8kHz

So, consider what I play and the effects I use, I have 2 Qs:

1) How high of frequency do I really need?
2) Does the lower usable frequency of 37 Hz (or 35 Hz) really give me that much more bottom end? May be the top end of 1800 Hz limit allows the Kappa to focus more on the bottom end?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
You're overthinking it, to some degree.

The bassist of Bongripper, who posts here occasionally, plays a bass that is tuned down to low F#. That's almost an octave down.

He uses primarily an Ampeg 810, as I recall.
 
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#11
Have to agree with the "overthinking" reference posted earlier:

*If replacing a blown speaker, find as close a match as possible as the enclosure was designed to complement the driver and vice versa. Installing different drivers may not give the desired results and may actually make things worse.

*Even if the original speakers are good and you simply don't like the tone or performance, sell it and snag something to your preference. "Rolling" speakers is all-too-frequently a lost cause.

Riis
 
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#13
There are a lot of factors that come together to produce the sound that you hear. It's very complex. You can't just go by a set of published speaker specs and the frequencies that you think you bass can produce. Both speakers that you are considering are good products but they have to be teamed up with the right cabinet. It will affect the bandwidth that you hear.

The published speaker specs are under a specified set of test conditions. They say, under these conditions with this sized cabinet/porting this is what we measure. Sometimes they stretch the truth. Your results will vary. When designing, once the theory is done, you try it and listen. Then tweak and listen some more. A lot of time goes into listening and it's subjective. In part, this is done because the models are not accurate enough. Also you are designing to optimize the sound for human ears not for a computer.
 
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#14
OP, let us know what's up, exactly. Are you looking into doing a build, looking for replacements for a box you already have, just shopping for your first rig, looking to upgrade and need advice, or........?

The box is every bit as important as the driver. Chasing low fundamentals isn't necessary; and conversely, most players wouldn't be satisfied with a cab that didn't go well above the higher fundamentals.

Fill us in on the details a bit. There's lots of experienced players and designers here to help you make an informed decision on whatever your end goal is.
 
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#16
@basscooker --- thanks for chiming in. No one seems to know the make/model of the blow speaker, which sounded pretty good. Some say PAS, some say NOT PAS --- perhaps just cheap Made In China stuff.

Replaceing a blown speaker from a cab that AFAIK is a Mesa Bogie 400W 8 ohm 15" cab. You can see it here...

Blown driver - what is it? | TalkBass.com

Exterior dims are (looking at the face of the cab) : 24.5" wide X 18.75" tall X 19.5" deep. So approx dims inside would be ~ 22.5" wide X 17.5" tall X 18" deep. Volume ~ just over 4 cu ft.

The two ports are same size: Diam = 4" ; about 4.5" deep.

I do agree that perhaps I'm way overthinking this and that whatever I decide on --- likely some Eminence model will be way better than what I had.


basscooker said:
OP, let us know what's up, exactly. Are you looking into doing a build, looking for replacements for a box you already have, just shopping for your first rig, looking to upgrade and need advice, or........?

The box is every bit as important as the driver. Chasing low fundamentals isn't necessary; and conversely, most players wouldn't be satisfied with a cab that didn't go well above the higher fundamentals.

Fill us in on the details a bit. There's lots of experienced players and designers here to help you make an informed decision on whatever your end goal is.
Click to expand...
 
#18
JimmyM said:
Eh, depends on the volume. I know lots of reggae folks who do exactly that and the cabs make it through fine.
Click to expand...
Yep. Heard Maoli (killer reggae band from Maui) live last night at the Gas Monkey Grill in Dallas outdoors. Those subs were werkin' ! Bass rig was two 8 ohm GK Neo 410 cabs and a GK MB fusion 800. Bassist played a 5-string Music Man StingRay 5H.
 
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