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Fret Calculator for Multiscale

MovinTarget

MovinTarget

Jan 30, 2018
8,332
24,872
Maryland, USA
#1
Blending my two loves; Bass and Computer Science!

So I am building a program that already generates "monoscale" fret distances from the nut/zero fret... That's easy and already exists. I am looking to write one that will offer the user the ability to set *two* different scale lengths and then I will eventually build in an ability to export to PDF an actual diagram of the fretboard layout (mono or multiscale).

This is fun to write, but I have a question for the luthiers out there...

Since the fanned frets have to extend to the edges of the board, but must intersect with the strings at their established scale point (i.e. fret "X" at the edge of the board won't be the same distance from the nut as it is under any given string) I am trying to figure out the best practice for rendering the board accurately.

Can I take the nut width and require the user to input a "gutter" value; being a constant distance from the board edge to the High/Low strings and then calculate the fret scaling with the "gutters" being the continuation of the frets past their scale points?

If I can approach it like that, it would make this a bit less complicated as it wouldn't need to worry about # of strings and actual spacing. It would just assume that on both sides of the fret board, the distance from edge to highest/lowest string is constant.

Or would it be more proper to get full dimensions of # of strings and nut/bridge spacings, nut and heel width and stuff so that each fret can be precisely "mathed" out?

I'm not sure I'm even using the correct terminology here so sorry if this is confusing. Just trying to figure out if there is already an understood set of data points people use to calculate this stuff so that if I ever decide to share, or heaven forbid sell(!) this app it would be something usable by those in the know...

Thanks!
 
#3
HaMMerHeD said:
You mean like FretFind2d?

ekips.org - FretFind2D
Click to expand...

BWAHAHAHAHAH /facepalm

..Pretty much exactly like that... I guess I'm looking to add the ability to export to PDF a 1:1 scale file that could then be used physically to mark off dimensions and fret positions. Sure you might need access to a special printer or have to tape together several sheets of printout to assemble the diagram, but as long as it prints to scale, it would be kinda handy...
 
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#4
Slidlow said:
I think string spacing at nut and bridge and number of strings would give you widths. String length for lowest and highest string and which fret you want to be perpendicular to neck centerline. How does that sound? That should cover all bases.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure for multiscale, unless you are getting into the micro scale stuff, the 12th fret is always the only perpendicular fret.

I imagine I'd still need the overhang (as the FretFind2d above calls it) in order to diagram the full board... I just didn't know if its generally accepted that the overhang is a constant value up and down both sides or should one expect less overhang at the nut than at the heel, for example...
 
#5
MovinTarget said:
BWAHAHAHAHAH /facepalm

..Pretty much exactly like that... I guess I'm looking to add the ability to export to PDF a 1:1 scale file that could then be used physically to mark off dimensions and fret positions. Sure you might need access to a special printer or have to tape together several sheets of printout to assemble the diagram, but as long as it prints to scale, it would be kinda handy...
Click to expand...

As a fellow wannabe luthier and professional programmer, I feel your pain on coming up with awesome ideas for cool projects that have already been done.

I actually create a CAD drawing of all my basses and have it printed at full-size at the FedEx Office stores before I start cutting wood. It really helps. Though I don't normally use fretfind2d to design my fretboards. I usually use StewMac's calculator and draw them out, though I do have some fingerboard templates at regular scales that I can import into new projects.
 
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#7
HaMMerHeD said:
As a fellow wannabe luthier and professional programmer, I feel your pain on coming up with awesome ideas for cool projects that have already been done.

I actually create a CAD drawing of all my basses and have it printed at full-size at the FedEx Office stores before I start cutting wood. It really helps. Though I don't normally use fretfind2d to design my fretboards. I usually use StewMac's calculator and draw them out, though I do have some fingerboard templates at regular scales that I can import into new projects.
Click to expand...

Well, if nothing else, this is a great exercise in identifying knowledge shortfalls before I get knee deep in a project!

I might still build my app out, for my own usage. I've been a VB 6 dev (shoot me now!) for the past 15+ years and now have to be better versed in C# so this is my hobby project to get me motivated to learn the language better!
 
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#9
I will say, the one thing that doesn't make sense to me with FretFind2D is with the overhang for Nut and *Bridge*... If you we just measuring off an existing instrument, wouldn't "Nut and Fret-nearest-bridge" make more sense? You can't really measure past that point...

I've found that the overhand is *NOT* constant on several of my instruments so this seems kinda relevant...
 
#10
Yeah, overhang is something of an area of contention. Some people really don't like a lot of overhang, and some people like to bend strings.

I generally go with 6mm at the 24th fret, and whatever the Graphtech nut I chose (usually ~5mm) has at the nut.
 
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#11
MovinTarget said:
BWAHAHAHAHAH /facepalm

..Pretty much exactly like that... I guess I'm looking to add the ability to export to PDF a 1:1 scale file that could then be used physically to mark off dimensions and fret positions. Sure you might need access to a special printer or have to tape together several sheets of printout to assemble the diagram, but as long as it prints to scale, it would be kinda handy...
Click to expand...
You can print out a full size drawing from Fret2Find in pdf, I did that when I was designing my BassVI. My friend made a spreadsheet and exported it as a CSV file to use with his CNC machine to cut the actual slots, but he compared them against F2F for accuracy.

Incidentally where you put the parallel fret on a mulitscale impacts playability. I put mine at the 9th fret so the lower frets were more fanned as you can't really play open chords on a BassVI.
 
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#12
Jisch said:
You can print out a full size drawing from Fret2Find in pdf, I did that when I was designing my BassVI. My friend made a spreadsheet and exported it as a CSV file to use with his CNC machine to cut the actual slots, but he compared them against F2F for accuracy.

Incidentally where you put the parallel fret on a mulitscale impacts playability. I put mine at the 9th fret so the lower frets were more fanned as you can't really play open chords on a BassVI.
Click to expand...

I saw that after the fact but I don't have Flash installed on my work computer...
 
#14
MovinTarget said:
Pretty sure for multiscale, unless you are getting into the micro scale stuff, the 12th fret is always the only perpendicular fret.

I imagine I'd still need the overhang (as the FretFind2d above calls it) in order to diagram the full board... I just didn't know if its generally accepted that the overhang is a constant value up and down both sides or should one expect less overhang at the nut than at the heel, for example...
Click to expand...
Not what I’ve seen of the perpendicular fret. Different builders do them differently. Because the scale range can be anywhere from an inch to three inches or so. But the closest thing to a perpendicular fret is more often around the 6th, 7th, or 8th fret, not the 12th. On this novax its way up the neck at like the 15th fret in order to be able to use a standard style bridge.

This is the Novax conversion neck on a fender body
CB43E9F9-5960-4968-9982-A5A77DFB0AEE.jpeg

This is a Dingwall super P (dingwalls shorter scale)
03A49BCF-C099-4062-8C5A-B00B5C3C8B50.jpeg
This is a Dingwall NG (their longer scale)
FA3C906D-40B3-4DA2-ADBB-2A10742EB5CF.jpeg

This is the Mayones Jabba 5 V
EC8DE64F-F6BE-42E8-A9DC-FA5CC2743C66.jpeg
 
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#16
Nephilymbass said:
Not what I’ve seen of the perpendicular fret. Different builders do them differently. Because the scale range can be anywhere from an inch to three inches or so. But the perpendicular fret is more often around the 6th, 7th, or 8th fret, not the 12th. On this novax its way up the neck at like the 15th fret in order to be able to use a standard style bridge.

This is the Novax conversion neck
View attachment 3317112
This is a Dingwall super P (dingwalls shorter scale)
View attachment 3317113 This is a Dingwall NG (their longer scale)
View attachment 3317116
This is the Mayones Jabba 5 V
View attachment 3317115
Click to expand...

Learn something new everyday, Thanks!
 
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#17
Something that might not have been done yet is a program similar to Fret2Find that calculates and prints out a full scale nut slot cutting template based on the string gauges.

There are rulers you can purchase that make it easier to do that. But the ability to calculate spacing and location for the preferred amount of overhang and just print out a disposable cutting guide could come in handy.
 
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