Fretboard, radius or flat?

[TonH]

Maybe this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find a thread about it.

While designing my "ergonomic" bass I am wondering why does a bass guitar has a fretboard with a radius?

An Upright bass is played with a bow. In that case to be able to strike each string individually, you need the middle two raised, giving a radius on the fingerboard.

But a bass guitar is played with your fingers or a pick.

And I don't miss a radius on my replica Audiovox 736.

Please your thoughts, opions, view, etc. on this subject.

 

[bastav]

Ive been thinking about this too. Probably gonna go flat on my next build just to try it out. If i like it then no more radius sanding, yay!

 

[Leiria]

The reason basses/guitars have a radius is because they were trying to mimic classical instruments. People keep doing it because its what everyone is used to and God forbin someone tries to innovate in the music instrument industry

 

[Stefan Verbeeck]

You might ask blablas, the basses he makes don't have a radius.

 

[rwkeating]

I have heard a radius board (for guitar) makes it easier to play (some) chords. Classical guitars don't have a radius and I read that was to make right hand finger picking easier. I don't know how true those reasons are, but they make it sound like a non-radius fingerboard would be perfect for bass.

 

[lz4005]

I have heard a radius board (for guitar) makes it easier to play (some) chords. Classical guitars don't have a radius and I read that was to make right hand finger picking easier. I don't know how true those reasons are, but they make it sound like a non-radius fingerboard would be perfect for bass.

The fretboard radius on electric guitars makes it easier to play chords on the first 3 or 4 frets but makes bends choke out easier higher on the neck. It also makes it easier to play clusters of 4 strings at a time with a pick without hitting the other two strings.

That's why guitars that are primarily aimed at rhythm players will usually have a smaller radius and guitars aimed at lead players will have flatter boards.

On bass it's an individual preference issue for each player. Different radii feel different.

Personally I strongly dislike the right hand feel of a bass with a zero radius board when playing fingerstyle. Having all the strings on the same plane makes it more difficult to play because I've been using mostly vintage radius basses for the last 30 years.

I'm sure if I'd been playing zero radius for that long the opposite would be true.

 

[hondo4life]

My classical acoustic guitar is flat, and I love it. I see no reason to have a radius on an electric bass, but I am fairly used to it at this point.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Yes, this has been discussed many times before here on TB. The main reason why electric basses started out in the early days with radiused fingerboards is to help with right hand (the plucking hand) technique. Back in the old days, electric basses were plucked hard with a rolling motion, similar to how an upright bass is plucked. The classic Fender basses were made that way, for that style of playing. They had a 7 1/4" radius and fairly high (by today's standards) action. That was the style and the sound of "classic" electric bass playing.

In the last several decades, a different style of bass playing has evolved. High speed, lots of notes, more strings, more chords, and fast light plucking with the fingertips. This modern right hand technique is more like fingerstyle acoustic guitar playing. For this style of playing, a flatter or completely flat fingerboard is preferred, usually.

So the choice of fingerboard radius is mostly about how you play with your right hand, classic or modern style. Both styles of bass playing are popular in all kinds of music. A good bassist should be able switch easily between either plucking style. The radius isn't so important with the left hand. Most players will adapt to either round or flat fingerboard necks. Rounder-fingerboard necks will tend to feel "smaller" and may be more comfortable for walking up the neck. Flatter fingerboards may be more comfortable for chording and walking across the neck. But again, the right hand technique is the bigger driver in the preference.

Some basses are optimized for one style or the other; others are made to be a happy medium. The basses I build are specifically designed for classic-style playing. I cut my fingerboards to 7 1/4" and even 4" radius. Medium action, and the middle strings are up higher, ready to be plucked hard. Other builders go the other way, with flat fingerboards and super low action, to appeal to the modern-style players. The big manufacturers try to find a compromise, with 12"-14" radius fingerboards.

From an engineering and manufacturing standpoint, a flat fingerboard bass is quite a bit easier to build. Simpler machining and fewer issues with pickups and hardware.

 

[RBS_Johnson]

Thanks Bruce, that is a very enlightening response. I had been wondering about this myself.

 

[michaelwayneharwood]

I experimented with a flat radius a while back and have since adopted it as my standard for all my personal builds. It takes some getting used to at first, but I have discovered that I prefer it. As @Bruce Johnson mentioned above it also makes the design, construction, and setup of a bass much easier to accomplish.

 

[TonH]

Yes, this has been discussed many times before here on TB. The main reason why electric basses started out in the early days with radiused fingerboards is to help with right hand (the plucking hand) technique. Back in the old days, electric basses were plucked hard with a rolling motion, similar to how an upright bass is plucked. The classic Fender basses were made that way, for that style of playing. They had a 7 1/4" radius and fairly high (by today's standards) action. That was the style and the sound of "classic" electric bass playing.

In the last several decades, a different style of bass playing has evolved. High speed, lots of notes, more strings, more chords, and fast light plucking with the fingertips. This modern right hand technique is more like fingerstyle acoustic guitar playing. For this style of playing, a flatter or completely flat fingerboard is preferred, usually.

So the choice of fingerboard radius is mostly about how you play with your right hand, classic or modern style. Both styles of bass playing are popular in all kinds of music. A good bassist should be able switch easily between either plucking style. The radius isn't so important with the left hand. Most players will adapt to either round or flat fingerboard necks. Rounder-fingerboard necks will tend to feel "smaller" and may be more comfortable for walking up the neck. Flatter fingerboards may be more comfortable for chording and walking across the neck. But again, the right hand technique is the bigger driver in the preference.

Some basses are optimized for one style or the other; others are made to be a happy medium. The basses I build are specifically designed for classic-style playing. I cut my fingerboards to 7 1/4" and even 4" radius. Medium action, and the middle strings are up higher, ready to be plucked hard. Other builders go the other way, with flat fingerboards and super low action, to appeal to the modern-style players. The big manufacturers try to find a compromise, with 12"-14" radius fingerboards.

From an engineering and manufacturing standpoint, a flat fingerboard bass is quite a bit easier to build. Simpler machining and fewer issues with pickups and hardware.

Thank you Bruce for your for your detailed explanation!
It will help me to make substantiated choice for my build.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

Played a bass with a totally flat fingerboard earlier in the summer - I found it uncomfortable, personally, but it had several other issues so that probably was not the only factor in not being comfortable.

 

[Beej]

I like a pretty flat board - mine are 20-24" radius. I also play classical though and have since I was a kid, so that probably has made me more accustomed to a flat radius. I find strats with tight radii cramp me up when playing. Reading Bruce's post above, that makes more sense to me now as to why...

 

[tlc1976]

I thought about radiusing the board on my 6 when I was building it, I even made radius sanding blocks. But figured I'd try it flat first, and liked it so I left it. Easier to make too. And yes I do like a low action. My 7 string also has a flat fingerboard. It also helps even the sound in the pickups (unless you have curved or adjustable pole pickups).

That's interesting, I always figured it had everything to do with the natural curl of the fingers on the left hand, and absolutely nothing to do with right hand technique. But I can see where it would help playing with a pick or bow (which I never do).

 

[reverendrally]

For bar chords, a little radius does noticably help... but then so does a proper setup. I've built both flat and radiused. I tend to go with bigger and bigger radii these days.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Look at how you aim your fingers. If your fingers are angled towards the neck, and you pluck with a small straight curl, that's modern-style plucking. Fast and efficient, with a gentle touch.

In classic-style plucking, your fingers are angled towards the bridge, and plucking is a much larger stroke down and sideways. Slower, but a harder snap. Upright bass technique, adapted to the electric. That's where you want the extra clearance of the round radius, to raise up the middle strings. Why do some of us old dinosaurs still play that way? To get that extra percussive pop and warble on the beginning of each note that is so much of the character of the upright bass sound. Fewer notes/more character per note.

 

[redboy1975]

I don't use a radius at all and don't miss it and neither do my clients .

 

[tlc1976]

Look at how you aim your fingers. If your fingers are angled towards the neck, and you pluck with a small straight curl, that's modern-style plucking. Fast and efficient, with a gentle touch.

In classic-style plucking, your fingers are angled towards the bridge, and plucking is a much larger stroke down and sideways. Slower, but a harder snap. Upright bass technique, adapted to the electric. That's where you want the extra clearance of the round radius, to raise up the middle strings. Why do some of us old dinosaurs still play that way? To get that extra percussive pop and warble on the beginning of each note that is so much of the character of the upright bass sound. Fewer notes/more character per note.

Thanks for the info. I had to check when I got home. My fingers are straight down, perpendicular to the strings. But if they had to go one way, they would go toward the bridge. But only ever so slightly. I do the same whether I play close to the bridge or up over the neck. I'm also double jointed so my fingers are usually rolled back to change the attack on the strings, or mute strings, but I guess it also makes it easier without interfering with adjacent strings. I also have thinner fingers than everybody else I know, which is probably another reason why it's easier to play straight on even with the narrower spacing of extended range basses. A standard 4 feels like the strings are too far apart. I can see the necessary technique change, or the desire to use 4 string spacing, if I had thicker fingers.