Fretless 4001 Rickenbacker that sounds like an upright?

[B-Mac]

I kid you not. I saw the Brubeck Brothers Quartet tonight. Had front and center seats.
Chris Brubeck was playing his Fretless Ric 4001 with tapes. He played mostly above the last 2 frets and other times over the bridge pickup. I've never ever heard an electric bass get that close to an upright sound (and I've been to a lot of jazz concerts).

I have a much better appreciation of his playing AND the sound that a Rickenbacker 4001 fretless came make. It was an awesome show.

 

[Gunga Din]

That 'last two frets' position is necessary to get that upright tone. I occasionally employ in on my fretlass basses but my right hand technique changes. I twist the hand so that the outer side of my index finger strikes the string as well as the side of the fingertip. Flats and a higher than normal string height make the sound more pronounced, ime.

 

[MattZilla]

Is he playing a bass which may be not an actual Rickenbacker USA product?

 

[PrairieThunder13]

Is he playing a bass which may be not an actual Rickenbacker USA product?

No it's a real '72 4001fl with a black covered over headstock and a replaced back pickup (which was once a jazz bass pickup, and now is a seymour duncan and which he apparently seldom uses anyway).

 

[bobyoung53]

No it's a real '72 4001fl with a black covered over headstock and a replaced back pickup (which was once a jazz bass pickup, and now is a seymour duncan and which he apparently seldom uses anyway).

There was a story about him and his Ric in bass player some years ago, it had tipped over or something and had to have the headstock repaired, he said he thought he bought it sometime in late '69 but was not positive about it. He also said he almost always uses the toaster alone. The sound he gets in amazing, he's also an amazing player.

This one sounds more like a fretless bass but watch him play:

 

[WillyW]

Every time I see him I am either inspired to perform better, or I consider taking up stamp collecting instead of music.

 

[PrairieThunder13]

There was a story about him and his Ric in bass player some years ago, it had tipped over or something and had to have the headstock repaired, he said he thought he bought it sometime in late '69 but was not positive about it. He also said he almost always uses the toaster alone. The sound he gets in amazing, he's also an amazing player.

This one sounds more like a fretless bass but watch him play:

yeah, chris is a hot player! Great licks! I took a look online at some clearer shots and i'm thinking that his bass is actually a '70 rather than a '72, which would line up with the story. Crazy cool! That must be one of the first fls. Neat with the really wide schedua strip that predates the centre strip becoming standard in '72 - i've only seen one other like that and it was a mid '60s 4001s in fireglo. Very neat stuff

 

[bobyoung53]

yeah, chris is a hot player! Great licks! I took a look online at some clearer shots and i'm thinking that his bass is actually a '70 rather than a '72, which would line up with the story. Crazy cool! That must be one of the first fls. Neat with the really wide schedua strip that predates the centre strip becoming standard in '72 - i've only seen one other like that and it was a mid '60s 4001s in fireglo. Very neat stuff

I had a jetglo '72 4001FL years ago that I stupidly sold.

 

[Keith Guitars]

I worked on this bass last month (I actually put in that Seymour Duncan bridge pickup, after removing the Bartolini J pickup that was in there.)
I also shielded the whole bass as it was suffering from some hum issues.

I can confirm several of the points above:
-Genuine RIC 4001, with a non-original replacement headstock
-He uses the neck pickup 95% of the time.
-It sounds amazingly like an upright - more so than almost any bass guitar I've come across.
-He is a fabulous player and a really nice guy.

Chris is also a very capable upright player, which is a big reason why his electric playing sounds the way it does.
He has a very upright-like right hand attack.

 

[JRA]

he's crazy good! i've always enjoyed hearing him play. my first EB was a ric, but fretted --- had it been fretless i might still be playing it.

 

[Dluxe]

Saw Dave Brubeck Quartet when I was a Freshman in College. He (Chris) also plays a mean Trombone!

 

[40Hz]

His sound is at least 95% him rather than whatever bass he's playing.

 

[PrairieThunder13]

I had a jetglo '72 4001FL years ago that I stupidly sold.

Haha - i had a '76 and did the same!

 

[vin*tone]

More 'uprighty' here:



Sounds great.

 

[Keith Guitars]

A big thing with this sound is his right hand - look at the above video around 36:30 to see what I mean.
He attacks with a broader edge of his finger rather than just the fingertip - more like an upright player.
Between that and the plucking position (right at the fingerboard end), that's a lot of the tone right there.

Incidentally, I've seen Darryl Jenifer (of Bad Brains) do the same thing - he gets a gigantic, organic, dub-type sound
from his bass, which is a Modulus with a carbon fiber neck and EMGs - not a typical recipe for that kind of sound,
but his technique makes it work.

 

[Keith Guitars]

PS: It's worth mentioning that I generally dislike electric bass in jazz, almost as a rule.
Even the very best (Swallow, AJ, Pattitucci) just barely get away with it IMO.
The note envelope is just different, and doesn't sound like jazz to me. Brubeck comes closest to making it work for my ear.

 

[B-Mac]

No it's a real '72 4001fl with a black covered over headstock and a replaced back pickup (which was once a jazz bass pickup, and now is a seymour duncan and which he apparently seldom uses anyway).

There was a story about him and his Ric in bass player some years ago, it had tipped over or something and had to have the headstock repaired, he said he thought he bought it sometime in late '69 but was not positive about it. He also said he almost always uses the toaster alone. The sound he gets in amazing, he's also an amazing player.

This one sounds more like a fretless bass but watch him play:

yeah, chris is a hot player! Great licks! I took a look online at some clearer shots and i'm thinking that his bass is actually a '70 rather than a '72, which would line up with the story. Crazy cool! That must be one of the first fls. Neat with the really wide schedua strip that predates the centre strip becoming standard in '72 - i've only seen one other like that and it was a mid '60s 4001s in fireglo. Very neat stuff

The 'Time Lines' CD I bought at the show and had autographed indicates it is a '69…

 

[thmsjordan]

I kid you not. I saw the Brubeck Brothers Quartet tonight. Had front and center seats.
Chris Brubeck was playing his Fretless Ric 4001 with tapes. He played mostly above the last 2 frets and other times over the bridge pickup. I've never ever heard an electric bass get that close to an upright sound (and I've been to a lot of jazz concerts).

I have a much better appreciation of his playing AND the sound that a Rickenbacker 4001 fretless came make. It was an awesome show.

Yes Chris is an amazing player and no one comes as close to sounding like an upright on electric except perhaps Tom Warrington. He sounded a lot like an upright player too back when he was still playing electric (I think he is upright only these days - please feel free to correct me if you know differently). I always try to mention them whenever anyone posts asking about getting an upright sound on the electric.

Anyhew - they are both upright players and that certainly helps.

Here's Tom:

 

[B-Mac]

Yes Chris is an amazing player and no one comes as close to sounding like an upright on electric except perhaps Tom Warrington.He sounded a lot like an upright player too back when he was still playing electric (I think he is upright only these days - please feel free to correct me if you know differently). I always try to mention them whenever anyone posts asking about getting an upright sound on the electric.

Anyhew - they are both upright players and that certainly helps.

Here's Tom:

It's funny, but during the show Chris was basically BL and telling stories in between songs and he referred to some recent Ad for this tour where they used an old photo of him with an upright and he laughed about it saying he hasn't played one in many years. So he obviously did play upright on occasion in the past, but not often.

And your absolutely correct with how he used his fingers.

On some tunes it was only his middle finger with his index finger on top of it. Also set thumb. On FB edge when playing at the end of FB and on bridge pup edge when playing close to the bridge which was only on parts of 2 songs.

He did not play floating thumb and I'm not sure how he was muting unless he used the bridge mutes, but the tape wound strings had plenty of sustain, so I'm thinking it was left hand muting.

I sat front and center and watched him intently, but didn't get to ask him about it when I got my autographs since we were talking about gigs where I saw him play with his dad and once with Jim Hall.

They were all very personable to talk to.

 

[Bob_Ross]

PS: It's worth mentioning that I generally dislike electric bass in jazz, almost as a rule.
Even the very best (Swallow, AJ, Pattitucci) just barely get away with it IMO.
The note envelope is just different, and doesn't sound like jazz to me.

Thread Drift: A jazz drummer I've worked with a lot shares your feelings, and even extends that skepticism toward amplified upright basses. His contention is that the pickup and amplifier essentially move the perceived note attack forward in time (!) compared to where it would be if playing an unamplified acoustic instrument, and this altered attack placement impacts how (and/or whether) the rhythm section achieves a consensus on swing.