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Fretless dilemma.

jg42

jg42

Jul 12, 2012
1,035
488
Toronto
#1
So, if you just need a low B, you get a five string? Or a 6 string? I'm trying to imagine what would be the case when an extra C on top will be a problem?
Surprisingly, I don't see many 6 string fretless out there. Plenty of 5ers though. And for sixer Dean seems to be almost the only choice below 1K, however it's a 35", which I'm not too crazy about.
So another obvious option is to get a fretted 6 and defret/replace the fingerboard, no? I've heard almost the opposite opinions on that, ranging from "it won't sound good" to "yup, I've done that and nothing's wrong with that", tried to look up here on TB and still there's almost 50-50 pro/cons. I'm sure someone here must have done that (defretting a 6-er is not different from defretting a 4) - correct?

Thank you.
 
#2
If you want a low B just get a new nut cut for your 4 string and go BEAD if you don't want to go higher. The neck for 6ers is wider and generally the string spacing is closer, although I doubt your concerned about that with a fretless. You won't find a 6er with slappers spacing unless you go boutique and spend over $2k to my knowledge.

The only problem with you ripping your frets out yourself can be sanding valleys into your fingerboard. You will need a big ole radiused sanding block to do it to a six string neck. That or it turns out you prefer fretted bass. Other than that I cannot see any flaw.
 
#3
I'm one of the few nutcases around who plays an unlined FL 6 string bass a-la Steve Bailey style. My Carvin Bunny 6 is a factory unlined model that I custom ordered. If you thought a 4 string unlined fretless bass was worth $0.00 at resale, you should see what a 6 string unlined FL is worth at resale. Like, er, is $-0.00 a legal number?

But if you want to go FL by defretting a fretted bass, you really need some pretty expensive tools to really do it right:
- long length metal radius beam
- stick-on sandpaper for the beam (this stuff is critical and it's crookedly expensive)
- fret saw with dam
- fret pliers
- good straight edge
- set of good nut files
- new nuts (because you will break the old one)
- nut slot file for when you remove/break the old nut
- nut slot gauge
- veneer to fill the fret slots
- glue
- sandpaper

and the most expensive, optional only in the sense that a parachute is optional when jumping out of an airplane:
- a good neck jig like the Erlewine or an equivalent DIY.

Having done my most recent defret using a neck jig, I don't see how I could have done it without the jig, but supposedly it can be done.

Anyway, all that is easily as much as a whole new decent bass. So I'd only opt for the defret option if you have access to the right tools, or know someone who has the right tools, etc.

So 5 vs 6 is personal choice, really. I use both the C and low B on my 6 all the time when I do play it. Intonating on the C in the upper registers is a real challenge, but no different really than anything else about the FL (you just have to practice it)....

That'd be my .02,

LS
 
#4
I defretted an Ibanez GSR 206. My reasons were to see if I could do it, and to see if I liked a fretless sixer , because I couldn't afford to spend 2K on something I wasn't sure of. I used a 20" radiused sanding block ,basic fret pullers and some laminates from LMII.com. I love the 34 scale hate the super tight spacing on the 206. I will do it again on another with at least a 17 or an 18mm spacing.
 
#6
jg42 said:
So, if you just need a low B, you get a five string? Or a 6 string? I'm trying to imagine what would be the case when an extra C on top will be a problem?
Surprisingly, I don't see many 6 string fretless out there. Plenty of 5ers though. And for sixer Dean seems to be almost the only choice below 1K, however it's a 35", which I'm not too crazy about.
So another obvious option is to get a fretted 6 and defret/replace the fingerboard, no? I've heard almost the opposite opinions on that, ranging from "it won't sound good" to "yup, I've done that and nothing's wrong with that", tried to look up here on TB and still there's almost 50-50 pro/cons. I'm sure someone here must have done that (defretting a 6-er is not different from defretting a 4) - correct?

Thank you.
Click to expand...

What - precisely - is it that you're trying to determine? What is it exactly that you're asking? :confused: :eyebrow:

MM
 
#7
DiabolusInMusic said:
If you want a low B just get a new nut cut for your 4 string and go BEAD if you don't want to go higher. The neck for 6ers is wider and generally the string spacing is closer, although I doubt your concerned about that with a fretless. You won't find a 6er with slappers spacing unless you go boutique and spend over $2k to my knowledge.

The only problem with you ripping your frets out yourself can be sanding valleys into your fingerboard. You will need a big ole radiused sanding block to do it to a six string neck. That or it turns out you prefer fretted bass. Other than that I cannot see any flaw.
Click to expand...

Well, I want to keep the high G as well :-)
Funny story about spacing. I've just got the GVB36 and I don't think any 6er has smaller spacing than that (14mm). Actually it works fine for my small hands.
 
#9
unclejane said:
I'm one of the few nutcases around who plays an unlined FL 6 string bass a-la Steve Bailey style. My Carvin Bunny 6 is a factory unlined model that I custom ordered. If you thought a 4 string unlined fretless bass was worth $0.00 at resale, you should see what a 6 string unlined FL is worth at resale. Like, er, is $-0.00 a legal number?


So 5 vs 6 is personal choice, really. I use both the C and low B on my 6 all the time when I do play it. Intonating on the C in the upper registers is a real challenge, but no different really than anything else about the FL (you just have to

LS
Click to expand...

Well, I never said "unlined" :-)
Yup, looks like it doesn't make sense to get all those tools for a single defretting job. :-/
 
#12
jg42 said:
Trying to figure out should I get a fretted 6er and defret it, get a fretless 5er or save money towards fretless 6er.
Click to expand...

Then strung it E, A, D, G, C, then fullstep downtune it, like this:
D, G, C, F, Bb and place an Hipshot bass extender, if version be, on the lower string, so that you'll have (C)D, G, C, F, Bb (with the "detuner" engaged, you're almost there for a lower B string, infact it's a C, while retainin' a 3rd above an ordinary G string)

Cheers,
Wallace
 
#14
jg42 said:
Well, I never said "unlined" :-)
Yup, looks like it doesn't make sense to get all those tools for a single defretting job. :-/
Click to expand...

Not for a single one, no. But if you happen to have a herd of basses, you'll be surprised at how much use a set of tools will get. I have 4 basses that I play regularly and it turns out only one of them (my Bunny 4) _hasn't_ had to go under the radius beam since I got my toolset.

Once you get good tools, you can diagnose problems you never knew were there and go about fixing them. Eg. my L2k's fingerboard was a real mess from new and I'd needed to level it ever since I bought it. My Carvin Bunny 6 string somehow developed a gigantic ski jump on the treble side also. And my modern player jazz bass underwent a defret...

So they do get used if you get them. And you end up with all these super nice cheap basses that set up like custom boutiques sitting around which is a nice result also....

But true, not recommended if you have only one or two instruments.

LS
 
#15
From personal experience as a professional session guy on fretless for many years:
- string muting is much more complicated and no longer intuitive when moving from 4 strings to 6 or even just to 5. Your right thumb that rested on the open e to mute it before will need to rest across the e and b now and with your left fingers you'll have to reach across a c string that you'll use infrequently compared to the others out of habit so it will keep making noise as it is in the way yet needs left hand muting most of the time.


Not saying it isn't worth it, but you'll find you're not as good a player for a while specially when recording because of the string muting learning curve.

But I also think it's worth it :-)

And my professionally defretted basses are at least add good as originally fretless ones.

Home defretted not so much, although I've pulled that trick of a couple times now and it's been good enough for paid work.... But the effort and problems you can create by sanding badly (I ALWAYS have this problem) are a headache.

For a $2k bass eg, I'd pay to get it done by a known good worker.
 
#17
dkelley said:
From personal experience as a professional session guy on fretless for many years:
- string muting is much more complicated and no longer intuitive when moving from 4 strings to 6 or even just to 5. Your right thumb that rested on the open e to mute it before will need to rest across the e and b now and with your left fingers you'll have to reach across a c string that you'll use infrequently compared to the others out of habit so it will keep making noise as it is in the way yet needs left hand muting most of the time.


Not saying it isn't worth it, but you'll find you're not as good a player for a while specially when recording because of the string muting learning curve.

But I also think it's worth it :-)
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm aware of muting issues, I'm now in the process of transitioning to 6 string fretted and it's confusing at times, however I'm getting used to it slowly...
 
#19
jg42 said:
I have 4 as of now, however I'm hoping to squeeze to 3 later.
Click to expand...

well, that's what I have and a 5th one In The Oven (Bromberg 5 string) due probably next month.

But with the work I've had to do on the 3 that needed it, the tool set has almost paid for itself already. The MP Jazz underwent a defret, the L2K and Bunny 6 needed fingerboard levelling really really bad. A good repair outfit would have charged quite a bit for that amount of work and would likely have done it with the same tools.

So, if they all need work, 4 would be enough to make the tools investment worth it. And I can keep hacking on them as things continue to go wrong also.

Otherwise, yeah it's going to be overkill. Especially if you plan to send some of your herd to the glue factory, it's probably unnecessary. I'm sort of a nutcase about things like tools also, so I'm not really representative of what's the most economical approach....

LS
 
#20
jg42 said:
Surprisingly, I don't see many 6 string fretless out there. Plenty of 5ers though. And for sixer Dean seems to be almost the only choice below 1K, however it's a 35", which I'm not too crazy about.
Click to expand...
They're out there. I snagged this used Carvin LB76PF fretless with piezos for $600.

3.jpg


34" scale.
 

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