g00dspeak. going to investigate this ~
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
fretless: intonation: here's a path ☮️
- Thread starter ryco
- Start date
Very interesting. And it explains why it’s so important to play a thing SLOWLY initially - ie to get it right from the get go and create a correct neural pathway rather than a wrong one. Good find 
puts some heft behind the old adage: "amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they can't get it wrong!"
Smooth_bass88
vaxx!
- Oct 31, 2006
- 12,122
- 16,796
- Disclosures
- have been on nationally released albums, charting on the Billboard 200
I've been saying this for YEARS. Like, don't practice something incorrectly whether it be a scale, a groove, a passage, a riff, whatever. Once something becomes ingrained incorrectly it becomes much more difficult to "unlearn". People are always in such a rush! Slow down, fer cryin' out loudVery interesting. And it explains why it's so important to play a thing SLOWLY initially - ie to get it right from the get go and create a correct neural pathway rather than a wrong one. Good find
I got Dr. Gebrian's book, Learn Faster, Perform Better, a few months ago and while it's obviously still early days, I think there's a LOT of merit to her teaching.
For the project I'm involved in now I've used her "serial practice" technique and feel like it has not only gotten me up to speed faster but also made me feel more confident in my knowledge.
And yes, as @Smooth_bass88 says, the science definitely shows that it's very easy to teach yourself to do something wrong. In particular it's easy for us as musicians to practice in a way that trains us to only play a part correctly on the third or fourth try, which isn't much help at a performance.
Highly recommend the book and also some of the add-ons and courses that Dr. G offers: All Products - Molly Gebrian
For the project I'm involved in now I've used her "serial practice" technique and feel like it has not only gotten me up to speed faster but also made me feel more confident in my knowledge.
And yes, as @Smooth_bass88 says, the science definitely shows that it's very easy to teach yourself to do something wrong. In particular it's easy for us as musicians to practice in a way that trains us to only play a part correctly on the third or fourth try, which isn't much help at a performance.
Highly recommend the book and also some of the add-ons and courses that Dr. G offers: All Products - Molly Gebrian
Great stuff, ryco, KeepItMoving! Hope this thread grows and grows. I should mention mundane, but useful, tools your neurons will thank you for, namely, accelerating metronomes, among them Sam's Accelerating Metronome, or Accelonome (this latter has a reverse metronome component).
Invalid Link Removed
accelonome.com
Invalid Link Removed
Accelonome - Accelerated metronome with time signatures.
Best metronome for your practice sessions. Support for odd time signatures and ability to increase tempo after every round.
Last edited:
I watched her video series a few months ago when someone posted about it here.
Anecdotally, I can say that not beating songs into the ground every day def makes playing them more fun when you do practice them.
I took a sorta easy-does-it lesson from her, i.e. practice smarter. And an added bonus was a reduction of "did i work on this enough" type thinking.
Anecdotally, I can say that not beating songs into the ground every day def makes playing them more fun when you do practice them.
I took a sorta easy-does-it lesson from her, i.e. practice smarter. And an added bonus was a reduction of "did i work on this enough" type thinking.
I recommend the site Bulletproof Musician for summaries of the latest research on learning and performance related to musician's needs.
- Dec 21, 2007
- 15,233
- 45,122
- Disclosures
- Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
It does, but there seems to be a lot more to it. Something about practicing "so that you don't practice it wrong" which is what neurologically leads to "can't get it wrong", rather than just "practice more and you'll get there".
This is something I've known since going to MI in the late 1980's, and still forget a lot of the time. It's incredibly powerful.
Another important thing (which I'm sure she gets to in some other video) is to schedule breaks as part of your practice - I think the thing was "every 10 min", where a "break" is "put down the instrument and walk away for at least a minute" and is NOT "noodle on something else".
How often do you do this - (been practicing for a while... play something, make a mistake) - "hmm, I'm a bit unfocused, OK, I'm going to play that again, without a mistake - then I'll take a break". (play it again, make the same or a different mistake. Feel a bit frustrated)... (rinse and repeat) until eventually either, after several repetitions, you either finally play it correctly (through sheer luck, most likely) or give up in frustration.
What you have succeeded in doing is a) strengthened one or more undesired ("wrong") neural pathways, e.g., strengthened your likelihood of making that mistake, and; b) gotten yourself frustrated and in a poor state of mind for playing and learning.
It's great to be reminded of this stuff. And kind of funny to see how much stuff we (I) know that I forget about and forget to put into play.
Time to do the tighten up!
It's also really cool that science says you can change up your routine without breaking your bass playing.
agreed!
IME, slowing things down has always helped: if i can do it correctly at a slower speed = i will be able to perform it at faster speeds --- or at tempo --- in short order (may take a few days), while also using the "random" technique she discussed.
Ha ! There's a whole chapter in her book called "The Fastest Way to Learn Music: Take More Breaks." And the principle applies not only during a practice session but also (per @ProbablyTooLoud's comment above) to taking more and more days off between sessions as you work on a particular piece.
- Dec 21, 2007
- 15,233
- 45,122
- Disclosures
- Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
I would also recommend the book. I bought a copy for my daughter but I am yet to hand it over!!
Just to play Devil's Advocate, there is an opposing view. Shawn Lane (guitarist) advocated attempting passages beyond one's means, and playing through any mistakes. When I saw this advice I was shocked, but it seems to have worked out well for him.
I get the idea of playing through mistakes, since that is what one must do in performance )even if they are not mistakes of our own making), but I think that is more of a mental mind-state management / coping process than a purely musical one. It is certainly nothing to do with the pure learning music, but perhaps has something to do with the realities of being a performing musician.
I got a lot of value out of this, but on the other hand, I don’t think this is how Victor, Marcus, Jameson, or Jaco learned. I’m pretty sure they just played with lots of musicians and records. Mononeon said he learned from playing along with records. This also seems to be what “random practice” is in her talks.
I have heard Jeff Berlin talk about correcting your mistakes. I think the approach in these videos would be great for ironing out mistakes.
I have heard Jeff Berlin talk about correcting your mistakes. I think the approach in these videos would be great for ironing out mistakes.
