Fretless semi-hollow questions

[Ejtibbetts]

Hey all,

I've searched through some of the forums to try to narrow down some info on this, but from how I searched the relevant threads were fairly short. So, I'm going to start a new thread for myself.

I am having a fretless semi-hollow single cutaway 6 string built. In our initial conversation, we talked through some wood options and bounced quite a few ideas around, but I figured I would ask what you guys have experience with. We will likely do a sandwiched body. At first I thought the main body would be something like Mahogony or Walnut, but there are so many options out there! I want a warm, rich sound. I'm not from the tone wood school of thought, but I do feel like the density, hardness, Janka scale play into how it reacts to sound. I'd like the fingerboard to be something like rosewood - I don't want the bite of ebony or hard maple. Top wood I want to contrast with the fingerboard and have an extended ramp over the mag pickups that matches the fingerboard. I'm up in the air on whether or not to include a piezo, just due to preferring a passive bass for this. I have liked how it sounds with basses that have a piezo solo or blended with mag pickups. I don't want piezo alone, so that's not an option for me.

Please share your experiences with semi-hollow fretless basses - likes, dislikes, sound clips, video, etc, etc.

Thanks!

 

[Docduval]

Heard very good things about the Warwick star.

 

[elgranluis]

If I recall correctly , rosewood is and ebony are harder than maple .

I don’t completely understand the concept of a sandwiched hollow body. From my understanding ( from electric and upright ) it is top , sides , and back.

I guess you could carve out a multi layered bass ?

 

[Ejtibbetts]

If I recall correctly , rosewood is and ebony are harder than maple .

I don’t completely understand the concept of a sandwiched hollow body. From my understanding ( from electric and upright ) it is top , sides , and back.

I guess you could carve out a multi layered bass ?

On the Janka scale, rosewood is softer, then hard maple, then ebony. I had a fretless once with a birdseye maple fretboard and I did not like it.

Sandwich like back, body, top. I’m sure there’s a better term than that.

The luthier is going to chamber some in addition to semi hollow it.

 

[ardgedee]

If I recall correctly , rosewood is and ebony are harder than maple .

Hardness varies by species and so on down to various parts of individual trees but broadly speaking maple is softer than rosewood, which is softer than ebony.
Hard maple: Janka Hardness: 1,450 lbf (6,450 N)
East Indian Rosewood: Janka Hardness: 2,350 lbf (10,440 N)
Macassar Ebony: Janka Hardness: 3,220 lbf (14,140 N)

Fingerboards can be hardened: Oils for a relatively subtle improvement, or for super-hard finishes they can be coated with epoxy, cyanoacrylate (superglue) or a polyester clearcoat that's designed for automobile exteriors.

 

[Ejtibbetts]

Hardness varies by species and so on down to various parts of individual trees but broadly speaking maple is softer than rosewood, which is softer than ebony.
Hard maple: Janka Hardness: 1,450 lbf (6,450 N)
East Indian Rosewood: Janka Hardness: 2,350 lbf (10,440 N)
Macassar Ebony: Janka Hardness: 3,220 lbf (14,140 N)

Fingerboards can be hardened: Oils for a relatively subtle improvement, or for super-hard finishes they can be coated with epoxy, cyanoacrylate (superglue) or a polyester clearcoat that's designed for automobile exteriors.

Oh! I was wrong then! My bad!

I don’t want to CA or anything like that on the fingerboard

 

[LowWay]

I love how mine came out. Swamp ash body and walnut top. Piezo bridge and Nordstrand big rigs with richter preamp. Stabilized amboyna burl fingerboard. Strung with tape wounds.

The tonal sweet spot for me is piezo with neck pickup blended in.

Here’s my build thread:

Thread 'LowWay’s 3rd 30” Bordwell Build'

Dec 12, 2022

Hi Bordwell fans and bass build fans, I’m starting a new build today with Cliff. 30” fretless. Got my first pic from Cliff today. A pic of the fingerboard.

It’s pretty stunning. To quote Cliff, “Best I’ve ever seen”.

specs:


CB Basses


SCB(Shrunken for 30” scale)-Bass 4-string


Dimensions
Scale length: 30 – short Truss Rod
Neck shape: C

Thickness at 1st: .850(standard)
String spacing at Bridge: 19mm

Body thickness: 1.625(required for Push/Pull knobs)

Construction
Neck: Flamed Maple with...

• LowWay
• Replies: 41
• Forum: Basses [BG]

• 

And the final bass:

 

[Ejtibbetts]

I love how mine came out. Swamp ash body and walnut top. Piezo bridge and Nordstrand big rigs with richter preamp. Stabilized amboyna burl fingerboard. Strung with tape wounds.

The tonal sweet spot for me is piezo with neck pickup blended in.

Here’s my build thread:

Thread 'LowWay’s 3rd 30” Bordwell Build'

Dec 12, 2022

Hi Bordwell fans and bass build fans, I’m starting a new build today with Cliff. 30” fretless. Got my first pic from Cliff today. A pic of the fingerboard.

It’s pretty stunning. To quote Cliff, “Best I’ve ever seen”.

specs:


CB Basses


SCB(Shrunken for 30” scale)-Bass 4-string


Dimensions
Scale length: 30 – short Truss Rod
Neck shape: C

Thickness at 1st: .850(standard)
String spacing at Bridge: 19mm

Body thickness: 1.625(required for Push/Pull knobs)

Construction
Neck: Flamed Maple with...

• LowWay
• Replies: 41
• Forum: Basses [BG]

• 

And the final bass:

View attachment 7204556View attachment 7204557View attachment 7204558

Man!! That’s is stunning!!

 

[ardgedee]

Oh! I was wrong then! My bad!

I don’t want to CA or anything like that on the fingerboard

The Ibanez SRF700 is an interesting approach. Rosewood or panga-panga coated with polyurethane for the fingerboard, but most of the tone seems to be due to using a plastic liner on the bridge saddles, which dampens the string vibration in the way a softer fingerboard wood might. Has a woody, hollow sound for a solid-body instrument, which comes through both the piezo and magnetic pickups.

 

[Ejtibbetts]

The Ibanez SRF700 is an interesting approach. Rosewood or panga-panga coated with polyurethane for the fingerboard, but most of the tone seems to be due to using a plastic liner on the bridge saddles, which dampens the string vibration in the way a softer fingerboard wood might. Has a woody, hollow sound for a solid-body instrument, which comes through both the piezo and magnetic pickups.

I was looking at those, then just decided to go for a custom.

 

[ardgedee]

I was looking at those, then just decided to go for a custom.

They're good for the price but some of the ideas behind them are worth reusing in better instruments.

 

[woodyng2]

I got this Tune bass used. Very intrigued by the look, and semihollow design, body is something like mahogany, with a book matched flame maple top, 5-piece neck with rosewood fingerboard. It has an Oil finish on the body and fingerboard, back of neck had a rather heavy poly (?) finish that I knocked way back with steel wool. It has a nice sound unplugged, but a few problems with the original piezo/internal active systems. Even with an 18 volt, 3 band eq I had problems getting a sound I liked amplified,so rather than try to fix that, I took the rather drastic step of having ALL the original internal circuit board,pots,etc removed, piezo disconnected, and
had a Lace Sensor surface mount hb pickup installed with a direct connection to the output jack, with no onboard controls.
It sounds great, and I have a boost pedal if I need to highlight a phrase here or there. If it had a larger neck I’d like it more (it has a skinny J neck spec with a 7.5” radius), but the woods/construction really seem to produce a nice sound.

 

[ole Jason]

My bass isn't technically semi-hollow but it is chambered to the point that it might as well be. I have a piezo paired w/ the humbucker. The humbucker is, mostly, in the P position.

I really like the piezo for bass forward applications like playing solo or in jazz trios. There's a certain "woodiness" to it that is really nice. It doesn't work well for louder/denser applications because you kind of lose what makes it special. It will also pick up pretty much anything touching/knocking the body which could become audible if you're standing and move around a lot. I typically sit in situations where I'd use it so not an issue.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Building a semi-hollow (fretted) now, I am hoping I get some acoustic volume out of it for unplugged play. @LowWay, that is an absolutely gorgeous build. The fingerboard looks like the Clouds of Jupiter.. or something! Do either you or @woodyng2 get any audible acoustic sound out of your basses unplugged? I realize that's always going to be limited with bass given a relatively small interior volume, but it would be nice to get at least as much sound out of it as an unplugged Hofner, for instance.

From what I've heard on TB sound samples, the Piezo under the bridge does give you some more "upright" bass tones, if that's one of your goals. Post some pictures of you custom build in progress if you can, I'm really curious about hollow and semi-hollow construction methods. This one in progress is all maple, so I expect it's going to be a little brighter than mahogany, but I wont know till' it's done!

 

[Ejtibbetts]

View attachment 7204636

My bass isn't technically semi-hollow but it is chambered to the point that it might as well be. I have a piezo paired w/ the humbucker. The humbucker is, mostly, in the P position.

I really like the piezo for bass forward applications like playing solo or in jazz trios. There's a certain "woodiness" to it that is really nice. It doesn't work well for louder/denser applications because you kind of lose what makes it special. It will also pick up pretty much anything touching/knocking the body which could become audible if you're standing and move around a lot. I typically sit in situations where I'd use it so not an issue.

Do you know what bridge that is and preamp?

 

[ole Jason]

Do you know what bridge that is and preamp?

The bridge is made by Manne. It's passive so no preamp. I think a few people have ordered them w/ a preamp.

 

[KeepItMoving]

For what it's worth, Rob Allen often uses cocobolo for fingerboards. I can't claim extensive experience but the 13-year-old one I got last year looks and feels great and the sonics are tremendous.

 

[ctmullins]

I built mine many moons ago. Sapele body, heavily chambered. Quilt maple top. Bolt-on maple neck with ebony fingerboard. Two Nordstrand Big Singles and a piezo tucked under a Mac Ebony bridge. John East preamp. LaBella tapewound strings.

It sounds as close to an upright as can be expected from a 34” scale instrument. But my upright sounds better….

 

[Low Main]

In the 2000's, me affording a Rob Allen was not happening, so I defretted a used Yamaha BEX 4-C with a mag and piezo setup.

With a minimal epoxying of the board, a wooden bridge saddle and broken in T-I flats, it turned out better than expected and is all I need.

For a vintage taste of fretless hollowbody playing, check out the great Rich Girard back in the day with the Andy Narell and John Dankworth bands.

I think Rich was playing a Hohner Hollowbody, a Martell or something similar. Folks who know more may chime in on that.

 

[Ejtibbetts]

I built mine many moons ago. Sapele body, heavily chambered. Quilt maple top. Bolt-on maple neck with ebony fingerboard. Two Nordstrand Big Singles and a piezo tucked under a Mac Ebony bridge. John East preamp. LaBella tapewound strings.

It sounds as close to an upright as can be expected from a 34” scale instrument. But my upright sounds better….

I’d love to see it!