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Fretless: should a beginner try to play it.

Just waiting for someone to chime in with "Jaco used lines" blah

Given that Jaco's main fretless was a defret and fretless weren't readily available, he really didn't have much choice. Same reason he didn't play many 5-6 string basses. Still, the ultimate solution to the Jaco debates is that you and I are never going to be Jaco, so what's the point?!
 
As proof that frets are not even necessary - I accidentally picked up a fretless, lined Fender J Bass one day and didn't notice the fret wires weren't there for a few moments. It was a very fortunate accident for me and an eye-opener fer sure!

I saw another post where everybody jumped on some guy who said he did the same thing accidentally and never noticed and everybody called him either a liar or some sorta freak - but it happened to me and as I see it - if you have a decent enough ear, it really doesn't make much difference.

As much as I've stayed away from fretless for years, I am now investigating going fretless since it seems so natural.

That experience told me that I don't now 'feel' the fret wires and just instinctively put my fingers where they are supposed to go - maybe experience on a fretted bass is important for a while - but as I see it it wasn't a big thing to me.

The biggest caveat though is you need to have a good ear and some instinct where to find the notes somehow for a start.

Perhaps the lines would be a good idea for a new player - at least for a while.

Mixed emotions here.
 
I played a fretted bass for 5-6 years but haven't picked up a bass for quiet awhile. I've had the urge to give it another go. I always wanted a fretless. I love the tone and the way they feel. So my question is. Should I jump back into this with a fretted or the fretless? any advice would be great.

cheers!
 
Being able to play a fretless is never a bad thing. Lots of things you'll learn while playing fretless can make you a better player when you pick up a fretted bass.

I took a year off from fretted basses recently and played nothing but fretless. It opened my eyes to a bunch of problems with my technique, and made me more aware while I'm playing fretted.
 
I've been learning on a lined fretless for quite some time now, but already had my ear developed from playing upright. The lines can be somewhat problematic if you change string types, but that can be easily solved with a screwdriver and some allen wrenches.

The thing about lines is that using them to find your positions isn't "cheating" unless you're completely not using your ears. Double bassists have been using the shape of their necks and whatever minor blemishes on the neck to find their positions for centuries.
 
I picked-up lined fretless after I had been playing fretted for some time. On hindsight, I wish I had learned to play bass the other way around. With a fretless how you fret is very important while you could get away with sloppy fretting on a fretted bass since the frets get to clean up your fretting (at least from my experience). I've noticed that after playing a lined fretless for long periods of time, when I return to a fretted bass my playing/fretting seems to be cleaner. Either that or your hearing improves as the sharps and flats seem to be more pronounced than before.

I agree! I picked up a fretless MIM Jazz fairly cheap so I could put a fretted maple P neck on it, however playing the fretless helped improve my left hand fretting technique a lot.

I still have the neck, I really should try to find another body(P or J???) and have another try at it...... :help:
 
Should someone try to learn on a lined fretless, if they have the intention of playing fretless in the future? Or is it always highly suggestable to learn on fretted first?

I really do not understand why some people make such a big deal about playing fretless.it is not harder than playing a fretted instrument.
Apart from getting used to intonating properly ( proper hand position being helpful in getting that sorted as well as not rushing yourself whilst trying to achieve it-and anything for that mater) I really think fretless is easier to get to sound good than fretted.
And...
You get good at anything you practice.

The short answer...You might as well start with fretless...lined or otherwise-learn to trust yourself and your ears and you'll be fine.
To get a proper teacher might also be a good thing.
 
Going back to the OP's original question, if his end goal is to play fretless, then starting with a fretted bass is just going to waste time and energy.

1. Playing fretted bass doesn't give your ear the workout it needs for fretless playing.

2. It also accommodates left hand positions that are perfectly acceptable on a fretted instrument, but ruinous to tone AND intonation on a fretless.

3. People who don't actually play fretless worry most about intonation, but experienced fretless players recognize that fretless doesn't begin to sing and mwah, until you learn how to coax it out of the fingerboard.

If he starts on fretless, then he'll be learning about touch, vibrato and intonation at the same time. If he spends six months using a fretted bass as a stepping stone, then that's six months worth of vital ear, touch and vibrato development wasted.

On lines: if he's new to music as well as new to bass, then lines might be helpful as a visual reference for learning theory. If he does go lined, I recommend having the intonation set up by a good tech. There are few things more confusing than hearing that you're out of tune, but having the lines tell your eyes that you're not, because of bad intonation.
 
Off topic...

End of the year resolution: Park the 4's for the month of January, and only play the (two) fivers. One of those is fretless!

It will be fun, and I can improve through the extended-range aspect of the five string basses.

Back on topic...
 
steve_rolfeca said:
Going back to the OP's original question, if his end goal is to play fretless, then starting with a fretted bass is just going to waste time and energy.

1. Playing fretted bass doesn't give your ear the workout it needs for fretless playing.

2. It also accommodates left hand positions that are perfectly acceptable on a fretted instrument, but ruinous to tone AND intonation on a fretless.

3. People who don't actually play fretless worry most about intonation, but experienced fretless players recognize that fretless doesn't begin to sing and mwah, until you learn how to coax it out of the fingerboard.

If he starts on fretless, then he'll be learning about touch, vibrato and intonation at the same time. If he spends six months using a fretted bass as a stepping stone, then that's six months worth of vital ear, touch and vibrato development wasted.

On lines: if he's new to music as well as new to bass, then lines might be helpful as a visual reference for learning theory. If he does go lined, I recommend having the intonation set up by a good tech. There are few things more confusing than hearing that you're out of tune, but having the lines tell your eyes that you're not, because of bad intonation.

+1 great advice & congrats on your new bass, Steve!
My experience: when I decided to play bass a few yrs ago, I just went my own road & bought a ministar 4f fretless. I figured if I could learn playing a "weird" fretless, I could make the switch to fretted easier....it worked well for me. The only snag was when I bought my other cheap fretless (Rogue). Thought there was something terribly wrong with it (intonation), until my bandmate pointed out that the markers on the Rogue are where the frets would be, & on the ministar the markers are IN BETWEEN where the frets would be! I didn't know that different manufacturers place the markers like that....still a newb lol!
 
I can't see any disadvantage to starting on fretless,,,,,unless you're tone deaf. If you want to play fretless why start with something else? Just immerse yourself in the instrument & you'll get there. I played only fretted basses until one day I walked into an Austin pawn shop & saw a '78 Precision fretless on sale for $300. It had no lines but it just looked so cool that I bought it & resolved to play it at every gig. It took about two weeks to get comfortable with it & it was my main bass for 5 years. I also sing lead on most songs. I think singing helped my bass intonation. If you don't have a fretted bass, you won't miss them. Just conquer the damn thing.
 
Students (kids and adults) all over the world are learning upright bass on a big slab of unlined ebony and are not experiencing any more stress than the generations that have done the same thing before. They aren't experiencing any more stress than a fretless bass player experiences. Not with the fretting hand anyway. Fretless bassists ought to be glad they only have to learn the easy technique - left hand placement/intonation. They don't have to learn the hard part of double bass - bowing/arco skills. So... Why should bass guitarists sweat over fretted/fretless or lined/unlined? They have it easy by comparison. I play both professionally, so I'm comfortable with the comparison.

To directly answer the OP's question, there is no reason to not consider a fretless for learning. Fretted basses are...well... fretted basses. It might be easier to learn on a fretted, but not necessarily better. If your intention is to play fretless bass, then simply play fretless bass. As you learn bass basics, you'll be learning to control intonation. Just like upright bass players do.

Lined or unlined fretless? Some double bass students (children) often have their basses marked when they first start, but those markings are removed soon, or they grow into larger basses sans markings. I don't think an adult student needs those markers, although they do act as a guide/target until technique and muscle memory (from lots of practice) take over. There is no harm in starting with a lined fretless, but at some point, unless you are a casual player/hobbyist, the lines should become completely unnecessary. They should be a learning tool, not a crutch.

Learning fretless bass does not require learning on a fretted bass. A good teacher, however, goes a long way toward success no matter what bass you start on.

My $.02

Bill

+1000 - My thoughts exactly. Why would fretless bass be any different that taking up cello, or Double-bass where the left hand is concerned?
 
How can anyone say it's not harder to play fretless?
A violin takes countless hours of practice to play well because of the short scale and the exacting nature of your fretting hand. The longer scale of the bass makes it easier but still much harder than a fretted bass.
 
How can anyone say it's not harder to play fretless?
A violin takes countless hours of practice to play well because of the short scale and the exacting nature of your fretting hand. The longer scale of the bass makes it easier but still much harder than a fretted bass.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that fretless is easier. The original question was whether it is advisable to start on fretless if you intend to play fretless. I think the point is that many thousands of players start on unfretted musical instruments every year. The idea of starting on an unfretted electric bass is no different from that. If they can play cello, or doublebass without frets from day one, why not electric which is so much easier without the bow required for the aforementioned instruments. It seems totally appropriate to start on fretless if that is what you choose as your voice. Will it be harder to get the intonation right? Yes. Is it inappropriate to start on one? No.