Fretting the fifth, or playing the open?

[morgansterne]

I'll go down to an open string from a higher note, but going up to a note I'd prefer to use a fretted note. I can do things a little cleaner that way.

 

[danosix]

First, I know someone is going to say play it how I want. Thanks, but looking for more. Consider this a bass theory question.

Working on a song (using tab, shoot me) and the tab shows to play the open D. Does the open string really sound different? I can't hear that sort of difference if there is one. Cheaper Yamaha, cheap practice amp at a pretty low volume, and very bad ears. The ears being the main cause.

Instinctively I am wanting to play the D on the A string fifth fret.

I know that tab isn't sheet music and is the interpretation of whoever did it (this is on Songster,btw). I am curious why he/she would have selected the open string D instead of the fretted. Part of my problem may come from having read somewhere way back when that open notes are to be avoided if possible. 25-30 years ago, so please don't ask for the source. One of the many books or videos I had is all I remember. And I could be remembering it out of context.

Thanks,
Russ

If you are not looking to emphasize the note (knowing which song you are talking about would help in a definitive answer) and it's as easy to play fretted most players would fret because you have absolute control over dynamics - whereas open strings tend to be inherently louder and brighter and will "jump" - of course, if that's what the song calls for, open is it.

 

[Honch]

Working on a song (using tab, shoot me) and the tab shows to play the open D. Does the open string really sound different? I can't hear that sort of difference if there is one. Cheaper Yamaha, cheap practice amp at a pretty low volume, and very bad ears. The ears being the main cause.

Instinctively I am wanting to play the D on the A string fifth fret.

I know that tab isn't sheet music and is the interpretation of whoever did it (this is on Songster,btw). I am curious why he/she would have selected the open string D instead of the fretted. Part of my problem may come from having read somewhere way back when that open notes are to be avoided if possible. 25-30 years ago, so please don't ask for the source. One of the many books or videos I had is all I remember. And I could be remembering it out of context.

Thanks,
Russ

As other has said. It all depends! Especially you should look at what notes comes before it, and after it. Transposing, as others have mentioned. If all notes are fretted, you can play that the same in any key. Maybe you have to play any open string while having time to move all the fingers to different position? However, if it relies on DAMPING, i e that the note is short, it's better to lift the fifth fret off with the fretting finger. Also if you should do a quick succesion of a C-D riff, say third fret on A-string alternated between the fretted fifth fret D on the same string, it's better to fret fifth if you're going for fast drills, and the notes shouldn't float into each other. I find it immensely harder to damp properly with my picking hand any open note, compared to dampen it with any finger on any fret on my fretting hand. This is by and large. Low open E you can't play any other way. You can't fret it unless you own a 5 string. I know people who just bought a 5er just because they can damp low E efficiently, OR TUNED DOWN TO DROP D, in order to have a fretted E on the second fret. Just so they can fret a low E.

Tip: follow your instinct!

 

[Ric5]

Working on a song (using tab, shoot me) and the tab shows to play the open D. Does the open string really sound different? I can't hear that sort of difference if there is one. Cheaper Yamaha, cheap practice amp at a pretty low volume, and very bad ears. The ears being the main cause.

I have never ever yet seen an "accurate" tab ...

 

[Celtic59]

I'm surprised no one said the obvious about open notes: allowing one to imbibe whilst playing,or to "give the horns" a la Spinal Tap.

 

[danosix]

+1 with it depends on tone, position, complexity, etc.

But, let's ask WWJJD?

I was surprised when I saw the first few seconds of this video. It makes total sense that JJ is playing open G and not 5th on the D, because he comes from the DB, where, based on my limited knowledge of DB, position and economy of motion are often the key deciding factors open v. fingered. Where BG only players often say they prefer fretted over open for tone reasons, making that the deciding factor. I think he's playing the C on 3rd A with his pinky or ring finger so that when he goes to low F, his hand doesn't move out of position. I'll bet most BG only players fret the G, like I always have, but have since switched since seeing this vid. I have been working more on economy and playing in position lately.

WWJJD - LOL.

 

[InhumanResource]

First, I know someone is going to say play it how I want. Thanks, but looking for more. Consider this a bass theory question.

Working on a song (using tab, shoot me) and the tab shows to play the open D. Does the open string really sound different? I can't hear that sort of difference if there is one. Cheaper Yamaha, cheap practice amp at a pretty low volume, and very bad ears. The ears being the main cause.

Instinctively I am wanting to play the D on the A string fifth fret.

I know that tab isn't sheet music and is the interpretation of whoever did it (this is on Songster,btw). I am curious why he/she would have selected the open string D instead of the fretted. Part of my problem may come from having read somewhere way back when that open notes are to be avoided if possible. 25-30 years ago, so please don't ask for the source. One of the many books or videos I had is all I remember. And I could be remembering it out of context.

Thanks,
Russ

Do whatever is most comfortable for you! If this were a lesson, I'd look at what the rest of the song looks like and suggest you play the note wherever it requires the least amount of "shift" (moving your whole hand from one spot to another).

 

[paulears]

I can hear the difference on my basses, but thinking about our repertoire, I think one song has open strings in it - a bottom E, which needs to ring out while the octave and other notes play up the neck. Mind you there are plenty of songs that feature open strings. Gary Moore had quite a few. I play five string, so for me, I tend to play all my songs between fret 3 and maybe 9 or so. Everything seems to fall conveniently to hand then.

 

[radioface]

I agree this is something to consider and practice....and practice...and practice. Ultimately though what sounds right to me trumps everything else. Unless it's a pretty fast passage generally a closed string is where I go. I just did a gig playing Jerry Lee Lewis type boogie woogie lines on the upright. Especially in keys like D and A it would have been much easier to use open strings but since mostly doing that sounded like ass with those lines I didn't.


Why? You already shot yourself choosing to take some internet dweeb's word for how it goes instead of developing your ears.

Who cares? Tab, lyrics and chords on the interwebs are often wrong...very, very wrong sometimes. Tab is generally worth about what it costs.


Yes it does. There are several factors as to why but one is that whether or not you you're aware of it you're constantly muting to some degree with your left hand. It takes a ****load of practice to mute an open string and make it sound like you're doing it on a closed string.

I agree this is something to consider and practice....and practice...and practice. Ultimately though what sounds right to me trumps everything else. Unless it's a pretty fast passage generally a closed string is where I go. I just did a gig playing Jerry Lee Lewis type boogie woogie lines on the upright. Especially in keys like D and A it would have been much easier to use open strings but since mostly doing that sounded like ass with those lines I didn't.


Why? You already shot yourself choosing to take some internet dweeb's word for how it goes instead of developing your ears.

Who cares? Tab, lyrics and chords on the interwebs are often wrong...very, very wrong sometimes. Tab is generally worth about what it costs.


Yes it does. There are several factors as to why but one is that whether or not you you're aware of it you're constantly muting to some degree with your left hand. It takes a ****load of practice to mute an open string and make it sound like you're doing it on a closed string.

I don't like tab and open or closed notes are a personal choice. I find that if I depend too much on closed notes, my open note playing gets sloppy.

 

[Lionel Albert]

The sound should tell us how to play, but with a bass that's got a "Zero" fret shouldn't change a lot.

 

[two fingers]

Two things (in my view)....

1) The tone is different. The higher up the board you go, the more your tone will round out. It will sound "fatter" (somewhat).

2) Being a great bassist has a lot to do with knowing what's next, not just where you are.

If the next note after D is a 14th fret A on the G string you had better play that D open or on the 10th fret E strong so you can have your left hand in position to hit the next note. Playing it on the 5th fret would be silly because you would have to make a wide leap across the fretboard immediately.

If the next note after D is an English in the same octave, and you are playing something funky, bluesy or soulful, you may choose to play the Daily on the 5th fret so you can slide over to Europe.

So, yes, "it depends". But, to me it's more than that. It depends on where you are BEFORE, or are going AFTER, that note is what it depends on.

 

[socialleper]

First, I know someone is going to say play it how I want. Thanks, but looking for more. Consider this a bass theory question.

Working on a song (using tab, shoot me) and the tab shows to play the open D. Does the open string really sound different? I can't hear that sort of difference if there is one. Cheaper Yamaha, cheap practice amp at a pretty low volume, and very bad ears. The ears being the main cause.

Instinctively I am wanting to play the D on the A string fifth fret.

I know that tab isn't sheet music and is the interpretation of whoever did it (this is on Songster,btw). I am curious why he/she would have selected the open string D instead of the fretted. Part of my problem may come from having read somewhere way back when that open notes are to be avoided if possible. 25-30 years ago, so please don't ask for the source. One of the many books or videos I had is all I remember. And I could be remembering it out of context.

Thanks,
Russ

If something is instinctual to you and it doesn't mess up what comes before or after, use the 5th fret of the A. If that doesn't work for you, use the open D. Hell, drop your E a whole step and use that open. You can pick whatever works best for you tonally. I tend to think a fretted 5th has a little less bite than an open string. You may be able to hear a difference, but if you can't, just use what works for you.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Both ways will work of course but the open string will have a different timbre and sustain than the fretted note will have. The open string typically has more sustain because you do are not touching it nor are you varying the pressure on the string. Playing open strings often results in a slightly brighter timbre than playing the fretted note on the 5th fret. It also requires different muting technique since removing your finger from the fret is not an option on the open string. Another option is to play them both at once. John Paul Jones did that quite often on the Led Zeppelin songs because it gave a different sound than playing one or the other. Gotta Whole Lotta Love is a prime example of that. he's playing the D on both strings at the same time and the octaves on the E.

So just be aware of the difference in sound and make your decision from there. If it's a passing note, it probably makes no difference. If it's a sustained note it will. It still comes down to what works best for you...

 

[strictlybass_ic]

Playing an open note vs a fretted fifth is very different (subtly that is). I will alternate between the two depending on the song and what is around it. In some cases fretting the fifth makes much more sense and sounds better, in others the open is better. Open notes at time can feel more forceful, but are harder to mute and more difficult to move around (nowhere to go but up). So, use your best judgement and see what works. I can say when i started I always defaulted to open because it seemed easier. Now that I've been playing a while it feels almost like the opposite is true.

 

[Sweet Willie]

...2) Being a great bassist has a lot to do with knowing what's next, not just where you are.

<snip>

So, yes, "it depends". But, to me it's more than that. It depends on where you are BEFORE, or are going AFTER, that note is what it depends on.

^^^^^^^^^^
This.
Nicely put. Where are you coming from and where are you going to, and what position makes that work well? That's an excellent way to make the decision coupled with tone desired.

I heard a story once that during a band rehearsal, Ray Charles stopped a song and asked the bassist to play a note at a different fret on a different string. Ray wanted a particularly timbre in that note (in the midst of all the other sound coming from the band!). Yes, the bass player made the adjustment.

 

[kevteop]

I tend to only use open strings for passing notes, especially on upright, because I'm lazy. I prefer the tighter sound of a manually stopped note usually and I find it's easier to do a good job of getting the note length right.

I actually don't like the sound of open strings on the bass guitar to be honest. With roundwounds anyway, I don't mind if it's flats with a mute under the bridge.

 

[wraub]

Open strings, closed strings, meh.

I play the song, however possible.

 

[georgiagoodie]

Depends...

 

[Kragnorak]

Working on a song (using tab, shoot me) and the tab shows to play the open D. Does the open string really sound different? I can't hear that sort of difference if there is one. Cheaper Yamaha, cheap practice amp at a pretty low volume, and very bad ears. The ears being the main cause.

Thanks,
Russ

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and blame your equipment To me there is a huge difference in tone! I use the open D if I want a sharp and biting tone. A lot of Tool songs seem to have the open D thing going, so you can use that as a reference. I use the 5th fret on the A string for an average tone, such as holding down the bottom in a rock song. I tend to prefer this D, especially because I can add a bit of vibrato and it lays a fatter foundation for the rest of the band. And I use the 10th fret on the E string if I'm playing something like Black Sabbath that is supposed to sound REALLY warm or deep.

Try this experiment out at a practice room or somewhere there is a drum set in the room. Make sure the snare is on and then play an open G and then play G on the 15th fret of the E string. I'm pretty sure that you'll notice the snare drum vibrating more with the second note than with the first!

 

[tfer]

What notes come before the open string and after it? I use open strings as a chance to cleanly shift positions on the neck.

Beyond that, I prefer to play in closed positions, but that's a personal preference that doesn't apply to anyone but me.