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Fretting.
- Thread starter Misery89
- Start date
Looks to me like your ring and pinky fingers are getting more action than your middle finger on that demo.
Keeping that middle finger flexed is going to be more work and less efficient than leaving it extended. Glance at your hand sometime when you are relaxed and not using it. That should give you some idea of what a neutral hand posture is like. That is, the normal posture when the muscles aren’t contracting to extend or flex your fingers. Neutral hand posture can look like the position of your fingers when you are holding a canned beverage, for instance. Straightening or bending your fingers from this position requires muscle action. It looks like you’re working the flexors of your middle finger to keep it out of the way, but not helping to make the music. Keeping it extended but just over the fretboard should require less work for that particular finger flexor muscles, plus it will already be in position when you need it for fretting. To me, it looks like you are using your index, ring, and pinky fingers pretty normally.
I know that isn’t exactly the question you asked, it was just my comments after looking at that video. Nice playing, by the way. I really like that bass line!
Keeping that middle finger flexed is going to be more work and less efficient than leaving it extended. Glance at your hand sometime when you are relaxed and not using it. That should give you some idea of what a neutral hand posture is like. That is, the normal posture when the muscles aren’t contracting to extend or flex your fingers. Neutral hand posture can look like the position of your fingers when you are holding a canned beverage, for instance. Straightening or bending your fingers from this position requires muscle action. It looks like you’re working the flexors of your middle finger to keep it out of the way, but not helping to make the music. Keeping it extended but just over the fretboard should require less work for that particular finger flexor muscles, plus it will already be in position when you need it for fretting. To me, it looks like you are using your index, ring, and pinky fingers pretty normally.
I know that isn’t exactly the question you asked, it was just my comments after looking at that video. Nice playing, by the way. I really like that bass line!
Thanks for sharing this video.
On watching it, a few things come to mind:
1) I definitely would not jump to surgery as my first option. Before doing that, I'd see some sort of therapist or movement specialist who could check me out and check out how I'm using my body. There are people and places that do that.
2) Locking fingers aside, from what I can see, you're doing some things to make your left hand's job a lot harder than it needs to be:
- When moving from finger 1 to finger 3 (for clarity, 1 = index, 2 middle, 3 ring, 4 pinky), you have your middle finger (finger 2) pulled way back and tensed up in an unnecessary way. It's okay to let it lay on the string and even help push it down between fingers 1 and 3 -- indeed, it's ergonomically preferable.
- When playing on the G-string, you're often (not always) holding your hand in such a way that your pinky (finger 4) has a longer reach to the string than necessary, making it straighten out and increasing the likelihood of collapsing its curve onto the joint. (On re-watching, this applies to your 3rd finger, too.)
- Your index (1st) finger is often pulled back, when fretting, almost like your 2nd finger is (except down on the string instead of up in the air), with the base of your bottom knuckle very close to or rubbing along the neck, sort of like a violinist would do, except with more tension and it's less ergonomic on bass (because of size and playing position).
Everybody's built a little differently, not just in terms of proportions but in terms of things like flexibility, joint laxity, range of motion, etc. You could have something going on with your hands that would benefit from work with a physical or occupational therapist, you could (less likely but possible -- I dunno -- benefit from some sort of more direct medical intervention -- though, again, I'd exhaust other options first), but I'm almost certain you'd benefit from some work to develop a more body-friendly technique.
Gotta run for a bit, but I'll try to come back an elaborate on this later.
JeezyMcNuggles
Inactive
- Feb 23, 2018
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I've always used my index and ring finger. Only in the last couple years, have I used anything else. Yes, for 20 years, I played in numerous bands, and played countless shows, with nothing but two fingers and a pick. Everyone thought I rocked. Little did they know.
Your fingers, especially the second finger, are living way out from the fretboard. Your speed is going to be slowed way down that way because, if you need a finger, and it's living out in no-mans land, you have to bring it down to the strings before it can even start to work.
I'd suggest working a lot on your chromatic scale. Start a bit higher up the deck so things are more compact and just practice 1-2-3-4 one finger per fret, up and down, across all strings. Put work in keeping your fingers in place even after you've used them (so fingers 1 and 2 are still in position when you fret with your pinky.)
Anthony Wellington teaches permutations, looking at every possible order for this exercise (IE instead of 1234 and 4321, working on variations like 1324) and that's the next level to really take control of your fingers.
Ideally when you reach "ready to play" position your fingers should all be trained to naturally position themselves over the fretboard and from the little video clip it looks like that's not the case, and it's slowing you down and probably making all your fretting much harder than it has to be.
I'd suggest working a lot on your chromatic scale. Start a bit higher up the deck so things are more compact and just practice 1-2-3-4 one finger per fret, up and down, across all strings. Put work in keeping your fingers in place even after you've used them (so fingers 1 and 2 are still in position when you fret with your pinky.)
Anthony Wellington teaches permutations, looking at every possible order for this exercise (IE instead of 1234 and 4321, working on variations like 1324) and that's the next level to really take control of your fingers.
Ideally when you reach "ready to play" position your fingers should all be trained to naturally position themselves over the fretboard and from the little video clip it looks like that's not the case, and it's slowing you down and probably making all your fretting much harder than it has to be.
I use my ring finger a lot, probably too much and I probably should off load more than a few notes to my pinky. I think that is a a residual from playing a lot of guitar where it’s easier to get a nice vibrato with your ringer than opposed to your pinky.
Lock up, have you tried making those movement that cause the lock very slowly. As you get to the point where it is about to lock, does it hurt?
I’m no doctor and can’t give you any medical advice. I’m of a bent that with a little PT doctor prescribed, and exercise followed significant woodshed using your ring finger will resolve most issues. Best wishes.
Try running simple riffs or scales using just your 2 smallest fingers. Also try making chords as an exercise.
Could be trigger finger if it's locking up. Our youngest had it in her thumb and it required surgery. Trigger finger - Symptoms and causes
Thanks and I appreciate the kind words and input.
The other videos on there I do use my middle finger but I know in that clip I’m not and as you say keeping it out the way.
i find more when I’m playing runs etc I do tend to keep my middle finger out the way, self taught so guessing just a bad habit.
I am making a effort after reading the forum recently to play more efficient I just never really gave it much thought, also thumb placement is a big thing I’m working on. Things I never gave a second thought.
That’s exactly what I think it is, I spent a good few hours on google and came to the conclusion that is it.
Appreciate the advice, completely self taught so I guess I have a few bad habits which I’m working on.
my back hurts from sitting like that, I normally practice standing up or on a chair, it’s the only good place I have to record videos.
Benjamin on TikTok
Just to show I do use my middle finger, as my last clip makes it look like I don’t use at all.
forgive thumb placement I’m working on it.
Thanks for all the advice that’s exactly why I joined and what I was hoping for.
Edit.
Now after rewatching my self I do seem to retract my middle finger on any sort of runs I play. Bad habit I will try to get out of.
Just to show I do use my middle finger, as my last clip makes it look like I don’t use at all.
forgive thumb placement I’m working on it.
Thanks for all the advice that’s exactly why I joined and what I was hoping for.
Edit.
Now after rewatching my self I do seem to retract my middle finger on any sort of runs I play. Bad habit I will try to get out of.
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I use all 4 independently. I started my music career with piano as a kid so in some ways I think I developed a good habit there that carried over to bass. If I had to guess the ratio of use of each finger on the fretboard is 30% index, 20% middle, 30% ring, 20% pinky, just because whole steps are pretty common in western music.
Some hand exercises that definitely will help is to play major scales on two strings only since that will require a lot of hand travel which you can only get faster on using all fingers. Another helpful tip is to play standing and pull the strap up tight and high. You want your hand under the neck with wrists more horizontal, which I see a lot of beginners that hold their hands with wrists more pointed upward (vertically). It'll feel like the first few frets are further away (especially on a 35" scale or higher) but it'll put your wrist into a better position both for speed/reach and ergonomics. Pointing the wrist upward (imagine the same grip you'd use for a hammer) forces using your first two fingers to do all the work and promotes pinky and ring finger tucking.
I've been playing for about 24 years now and do a lot of teaching so I do see a lot of the early bad habits that takes folks a while to break. For my first year or two on bass I had a bad habit of tucking my pinky (I still catch myself doing it even after decades of playing too), and I really had to concentrate to force better habits, but I'm happy I did because my speed, reach, and finger strength are much better now. If you really want to test your speed and accuracy, grab a fretless!
Some hand exercises that definitely will help is to play major scales on two strings only since that will require a lot of hand travel which you can only get faster on using all fingers. Another helpful tip is to play standing and pull the strap up tight and high. You want your hand under the neck with wrists more horizontal, which I see a lot of beginners that hold their hands with wrists more pointed upward (vertically). It'll feel like the first few frets are further away (especially on a 35" scale or higher) but it'll put your wrist into a better position both for speed/reach and ergonomics. Pointing the wrist upward (imagine the same grip you'd use for a hammer) forces using your first two fingers to do all the work and promotes pinky and ring finger tucking.
I've been playing for about 24 years now and do a lot of teaching so I do see a lot of the early bad habits that takes folks a while to break. For my first year or two on bass I had a bad habit of tucking my pinky (I still catch myself doing it even after decades of playing too), and I really had to concentrate to force better habits, but I'm happy I did because my speed, reach, and finger strength are much better now. If you really want to test your speed and accuracy, grab a fretless!
There’s two basic approaches to fingering.
There’s the classic Simandl Technique where the ring finger and pinky act as a single digit. It’s commonly used by upright bass players as well as many bass guitarists in the lower neck positions.
Then there’s the OFPF or “one finger per fret” technique which is self explanatory and easily the most commonly used fingering on bass guitar.
Each has its advantages, and neither one is intrinsically “better” than the other. Which technique to use, and where to use it, all depends on what’s most comfortable for the player. If you’re smart you’ll want to become familiar with and comfortable using both fingering techniques. Many bass guitarists will routinely switch back and forth between the two as the situation calls for.
And to answer your question about whether or not anybody actually uses their ring finger, the short answer is: Yes. The majority do use their ring finger. And they use it regularly when they play.
There’s the classic Simandl Technique where the ring finger and pinky act as a single digit. It’s commonly used by upright bass players as well as many bass guitarists in the lower neck positions.
Then there’s the OFPF or “one finger per fret” technique which is self explanatory and easily the most commonly used fingering on bass guitar.
Each has its advantages, and neither one is intrinsically “better” than the other. Which technique to use, and where to use it, all depends on what’s most comfortable for the player. If you’re smart you’ll want to become familiar with and comfortable using both fingering techniques. Many bass guitarists will routinely switch back and forth between the two as the situation calls for.
And to answer your question about whether or not anybody actually uses their ring finger, the short answer is: Yes. The majority do use their ring finger. And they use it regularly when they play.
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I jammed with this Italian drummer one time who was much older and wiser than me and he called me out for not practicing and asked me how my hands were. I said the same thing about my pinky and he offered me wine. It worked quite well after a few glasses I just played through and forgot about it.
