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FRFR Cabinets

A

acwax

Oct 12, 2010
9
0
#1
Hi, first post here.

I have been researching bass cabinets with full range (~30Hz-20kHz) and relatively flat response for use with guitar as well as bass (5 string), and potentially other instruments such as keyboard, Chapman stick, etc. My preamp of choice for all of the above is the Axe-Fx II. [Current power amps: Matrix GT800FX and Carvin DCM1540L]

Acme, Barefaced (especially their upcoming "hi-fi" line), and fEARful have caught my eye so far. I have found a lot of useful information on this forum but wanted to start a current thread about it to hopefully get some more input.

I like to play in very loud bands, so I have been gravitating towards the larger offerings by these companies. fEARful's 1515/66/1 configuration seems perfect, but I prefer the vertical arrangement of the speakers in the Barefaced, and also the extremely FRFR qualities of the Acme (they are releasing a 2x12 soon).

So that's where I stand currently. Any input and opinions are greatly appreciated.
 
#3
I'm definitely open to cabinets with the "flat" of the curve starting at 40-45 ish Hz. It's more important that the sound is balanced, and, since I do want a lot of volume, I am aware I have to make the trade off for efficiency.
 
#4
acwax said:
I'm definitely open to cabinets with the "flat" of the curve starting at 40-45 ish Hz. It's more important that the sound is balanced, and, since I do want a lot of volume, I am aware I have to make the trade off for efficiency.
Click to expand...

IMO and IME, the most 'studio monitor' type cab that can handle the peaks and loud volumes of bass guitar amplification is the Audiokinesis Thunderchild cabs. They don't extend that low, but as posted above, that is typically wasted in live performance anyway.

The crossover is a thing of beauty, and the cabs (112 and 115) are based on an OEM version of the wonderful Eminence 3012LF and 3015LF drivers. Duke has OEM 4ohm versions that are tuned a touch higher so they sound great in a very small box, and again, the top end from 1K on up is just glorious. The 'small' version of the Thunderchild 115 would probably make you giddy!

Duke comes from high end audiophile land. The crossover in the small 112 cab weighs over 4 pounds!

IMO, exactly what you want.

The Acme's are kind of a different thing, and tend to need a lot of loving care with hi pass filtering etc. Flat, but so extended down low as to kind of overwhelm the small mid driver and tweeter when you start to crank.

The fEARfuls are nice... a bit rougher up top than the Thunderchilds (more PA cab than studio monitor if that makes sense), and the 12/6/1 would probably work nicely for you also if you had a bit more EQ power and absolute power (they are 8ohm cabs using 'stock' versions of the drivers).
 
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#5
This topic is really interesting to me as someone who used the Axe-FX with guitar for a period of time. FRFR is big in the guitar modeling world as it allows a signal to be faithfully reproduced. At that point amp and cab modeling can be applied to make it sound as if the FRFR monitor is playing back the sound from a mic'ed cabinet of the user's choosing.

It makes me wonder if this new surge in the fEARful, Barefaced, Acme type cabs that seem to resemble instrument-specific PA speakers will follow that trend. Meaning, would a bass player ultimately need some sort of vintage bass cab modeling technology to alter the sound before it goes to the "flat" cab. Like using a Tech21 BDDI in the signal path to reclaim some of that vintage tone. Or is it different for bass?
 
#6
Thanks for the suggestion - those Thunderchild cabs do look very nice. Might end up being too expensive for me because I'd need two 15". I'd rather have a single cab that is 2x15.

I should add that it may seem like I'm really looking for a good quality PA speaker. While that is still an option, the main reason I am gravitating towards bass cabinets is their modular, rectangular design. I've looked at a few "nearly" rectangular PA cabs. I am strongly considering picking up the Carvin LS1523 until I can afford one of these much more expensive options.
 
#7
acwax said:
Thanks for the suggestion - those Thunderchild cabs do look very nice. Might end up being too expensive for me because I'd need two 15". I'd rather have a single cab that is 2x15.

I should add that it may seem like I'm really looking for a good quality PA speaker. While that is still an option, the main reason I am gravitating towards bass cabinets is their modular, rectangular design. I've looked at a few "nearly" rectangular PA cabs.
Click to expand...

The fEARful 15/6/1 + Sub would probably work wonderful for you then. There are licensed builders, some of them making super lightweight fibercore versions. There is also a 1515/66 which is an amazing box. Both options will get you that 'front of house with subs' (not the overextended subs that suck on many PA's, just good solid 45hz low end) sort of vibe. IMO and IME.
 
#8
Jarrett said:
It makes me wonder if this new surge in the fEARful, Barefaced, Acme type cabs that seem to resemble instrument-specific PA speakers will follow that trend. Meaning, would a bass player ultimately need some sort of vintage bass cab modeling technology to alter the sound before it goes to the "flat" cab.
Click to expand...

Only if they actually want vintage bass cab sound.;)
 
#9
As has been discussed by Alex of Barefaced, Greenboy, BFM, and many other guru's, the slight staggered alignment of low frequency woofers makes no difference. It does make a difference in the mid or high range drivers, which is why those two mid range drivers in the 1515/66 are vertically aligned.

That said it also comes into play in full range drivers of any size, as those drivers handle lows, mids, and highs.
 
#10
acwax said:
Thanks for the suggestion - those Thunderchild cabs do look very nice. Might end up being too expensive for me because I'd need two 15". I'd rather have a single cab that is 2x15.

I should add that it may seem like I'm really looking for a good quality PA speaker. While that is still an option, the main reason I am gravitating towards bass cabinets is their modular, rectangular design. I've looked at a few "nearly" rectangular PA cabs. I am strongly considering picking up the Carvin LS1523 until I can afford one of these much more expensive options.
Click to expand...

Where are you located? If you are any where near Michigan you can come play through my 1515/66.
 
#13
Jarrett said:
I guess that is question. In the guitar application playing through an FRFR cab with no cab modeling produces at undesirable sound typically. I'm wondering if that translates to bass as well.
Click to expand...

Again, I think it just depends on what your tone goals are. For example, acoustic guitar often sounds great straight through FRFR stuff, no? If you want vintage bass tone from an FRFR cab, the "vintage" part will obviously have to come from somewhere other than the cab, and it seems that some people can get there with just EQ, some with modeling, and some not at all, for a variety of reasons.
 
#15
I just ordered a Carvin LS1523. Price, specs, and trial period was just too good not to give it a shot. I will definitely look into fEARful in my area (I want to build one, but am having trouble finding the time and access to tools), and I will continue my search for the ultimate FRFR cab. The Carvin is just a temporary affordable solution. Who knows, it may work out, especially if I add a 18" sub underneath. It would be interesting to compare it to a 1515/66/1. I remember reading somewhere on the internet that someone swapped out the speakers in a similar Carvin for the Deltalite ones used in Greenboy's designs and said the difference was not worth it. Of course, this could and very well might be due to the inferior cabinet design of Carvin not allowing these great speakers to truly express themselves.
 
#18
I'd use my TC115 for this type of thing, for sure. It's quite a bit flatter than the fEarful.

I use a pair of carvin LS1503's for my PA mains, and used them as a bass rig for a while. They're not terribly flat, and don't have a ton of bottom. Lots of eq required.
 
#20
rpsands said:
I'd use my TC115 for this type of thing, for sure. It's quite a bit flatter than the fEarful.

I use a pair of carvin LS1503's for my PA mains, and used them as a bass rig for a while. They're not terribly flat, and don't have a ton of bottom. Lots of eq required.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the input. I'm sure the Carvin's aren't the best of the best, but I'm curious if they could work well for my application.

I checked out Traynor.. looks like the TC412 might suit my needs quite well. Maybe something else to try out.
 

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