This is really awesome. Thanks for sharing this. I've been to her site, but did not know this section was available.
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From fingers to a pick
- Thread starter mattattack187
- Start date
This is really awesome. Thanks for sharing this. I've been to her site, but did not know this section was available.
There was that one BL where it was a must. Mr. BL ran a double stack so 16 twelves(!) against my poor little Sunn stack, * I better pick.
* 4x12 over 2x15 with a Beta Lead, 2.5 on the volume knob was a lot!
* 4x12 over 2x15 with a Beta Lead, 2.5 on the volume knob was a lot!
You raise an interesting point, which I think is mostly true: Punk bassists typically play with a pick.
I have a lot of old punk influences in my playing, but last fall decided to dedicate myself to learning the floating thumb technique. I'm developing an attack that I think will work in a punk context, but now I'm curious.
Are there any notable punk bassists that use just their fingers?
I may make another thread for this.
To me using fingers seem natural and I admire those that are proficient with a pick. I used a very soft one a bit 20 years ago for chording more gently than strumming with fingers. For general playing I try it now and then, but if practising playing along to a piece if it's a piece longer than three minutes I'm back to fingers before it's over.
When I was just starting out, I was a fingerstyle only guy.
Then I saw Yes one night and went, "Oh." So I went to a guitar playing buddy's house and said, "ok, show me how you do it."
He gave me a few tips and after some practice, it became pretty natural. I switch off depending on the song now.
Or the instrument: The Rickenbacker seems to want a pick more than ever nowadays. And I can do either on my ABG but the pick just sounds so much better. Any of the double course instruments like 8 string bass, bajo sexto, or mandocello require a pick for me.
For bass I use two styles: Usually, Dunlop 1mm. When I need a brighter attack, Tortex .60 (orange).
For guitar I use much lighter gauges because I strum way harder than I should. My guitar player on the other hand, uses Tortex 1.14mm (purple) which is way too stiff for me - cant even use them. Which goes to show, one of the ways you can get better using a pick is to find how stiff you want that thing. Everyone has a different "feel" so experiment with different gauges and materials and don't be afraid to try something new.
Then I saw Yes one night and went, "Oh." So I went to a guitar playing buddy's house and said, "ok, show me how you do it."
He gave me a few tips and after some practice, it became pretty natural. I switch off depending on the song now.
Or the instrument: The Rickenbacker seems to want a pick more than ever nowadays. And I can do either on my ABG but the pick just sounds so much better. Any of the double course instruments like 8 string bass, bajo sexto, or mandocello require a pick for me.
For bass I use two styles: Usually, Dunlop 1mm. When I need a brighter attack, Tortex .60 (orange).
For guitar I use much lighter gauges because I strum way harder than I should. My guitar player on the other hand, uses Tortex 1.14mm (purple) which is way too stiff for me - cant even use them. Which goes to show, one of the ways you can get better using a pick is to find how stiff you want that thing. Everyone has a different "feel" so experiment with different gauges and materials and don't be afraid to try something new.
Oh, but here we're comparing apples to oranges (in the case of .60s literally). Tortex picks are much stiffer than nylon. Because the material is harder it needn't be as thick as nylon to reach the same level of stiffness to bending tension. So basically, a Tortex .60 (orange) is about as flexible as a nylon 1mm. Also, again because Tortex is harder, the attack is much brighter and edgier than softer nylon.
Try using a nylon .60. It's gonna feel like playing with a leaf. A nylon 1mm gives me the stiffness of a Tortex .60 but the attack is a little more under control for my tastes. If I wanna get brighter, bust out the Tortex.
I know some guys that use coins, shaped stone, steel, felt, and leather. Whatever you like the best is a cross between comfortable stiffness and attack.
Teijo K.
Commercial User
I started practicing mixed technique. So I keep the pick in my palm when I am using fingers. That way its easy to change from fingers to pick and back even during a song. It's really versatile style of playing. Stronger dynamic range and sounds too. I can get really soft to agressive within a song. Like from verse to bridge to chorus. Loving it already thought it takes some practice but so does everything in music.
I'll chime in to tell my pick story. I started playing guitar around 1986 and bass in 1988 and it was fingerstyle for me for 20 years. Altho' I've been decently proficient on guitar with a pick, the rare times I had to use a pick on bass it felt real clumsy, rhytmically unnatural. SO I played everything fingerstyle, from soul to speed metal (even HC parts, using a really orthopaedic 3 finger technique sometimes). Now, in 2008 I started playing almost exclusively fast HC and demoed a complete LP with a close guitarist friend (who happens to be an outstanding rhythm guitarist from some big metal acts -with a long history of HC-) and by watching him (a guitarist!) I just re-learned to play a bass with a pick. I simply emulated his rhytmical feel. On guitar you can bang it and not get your pick stuck when stroking simply because such soft and thin strings will move away. But on picked bass well, if you hit hard either you break a string or the pick goes flying away. With time I discovered the perfect way to counteract that so that you can play with a guitar'ish feel is to use softer picks, which also provide for some natural compression. For me it's Tortex Triangle .60mm (orange), when NEW. That's the exact stiffnes for me. Probably an hour into a new pick it starts getting softer. I tried Ultex (same gauge) as it's just a tad stiffer, but as so, they crack or even get their corners chopped with my kind of technique. So I stick to .60 Tortex which don't break and are way cheaper so I don't mind discarding them often much.
As you can see in this video my picking pattern doesn't differ from the guitarist (to the left)'s.
As you can also see I use my whole arm, wrist AND fingers to pick, in a typical guitarist kinda' motion. Live I have to mute more just in case my strokes are not that precise, but even with a guitar like arm motion I've grown very precise over these last 9 years. My point is you cannot appropriately do a solid groove only with your fingers, not even with your fingers and wrist, you need your whole extremity for it to flow. I say worry less about picking precision (and the whole pick up/down -púa/contrapúa in spanish- cycle) and focus more about your arm "dancing" around a groove. If you look clumsy or unnatural playing (what I see in MOST picking bassists) it's probably sounding that way too, even if mixed with your band it doesn't show too obviously.
The other thing you probably noticed is groove related, we play strong (down) beats on snares. That for me is ESSENTIAL for modern fast HC, basically not playing the groove as if you were playing some Ska upbeat thing, SO WRONG. Let me show you just a measure to exemplify.
It has a lot to do with the drummer too. Some drummers simply can't give up on the annoying strong kicks on 1 and 3 and the continuity of the hi-hat (measure A), while the good ones (no euphemisms here) do it the other way around. FAST HC IS NOT METAL, it grooves in a very different kind of way, altho' many don't ever get to "click" and play clumsy HC all their lives. I've tried to discuss it in this totally ignored thread (can live with it, TB is not into pick technique development much). I apply this sort of snare oriented/accented groove concept for many other things I play, not only HC (an example). It's even made me a better guitarist. Here's a drums+bass rough take for you to hear how it sounds. And here's the final song it became after some more takes, guitars, singing, editing, mixing, mastering...
As you can see in this video my picking pattern doesn't differ from the guitarist (to the left)'s.
As you can also see I use my whole arm, wrist AND fingers to pick, in a typical guitarist kinda' motion. Live I have to mute more just in case my strokes are not that precise, but even with a guitar like arm motion I've grown very precise over these last 9 years. My point is you cannot appropriately do a solid groove only with your fingers, not even with your fingers and wrist, you need your whole extremity for it to flow. I say worry less about picking precision (and the whole pick up/down -púa/contrapúa in spanish- cycle) and focus more about your arm "dancing" around a groove. If you look clumsy or unnatural playing (what I see in MOST picking bassists) it's probably sounding that way too, even if mixed with your band it doesn't show too obviously.
The other thing you probably noticed is groove related, we play strong (down) beats on snares. That for me is ESSENTIAL for modern fast HC, basically not playing the groove as if you were playing some Ska upbeat thing, SO WRONG. Let me show you just a measure to exemplify.
It has a lot to do with the drummer too. Some drummers simply can't give up on the annoying strong kicks on 1 and 3 and the continuity of the hi-hat (measure A), while the good ones (no euphemisms here) do it the other way around. FAST HC IS NOT METAL, it grooves in a very different kind of way, altho' many don't ever get to "click" and play clumsy HC all their lives. I've tried to discuss it in this totally ignored thread (can live with it, TB is not into pick technique development much). I apply this sort of snare oriented/accented groove concept for many other things I play, not only HC (an example). It's even made me a better guitarist. Here's a drums+bass rough take for you to hear how it sounds. And here's the final song it became after some more takes, guitars, singing, editing, mixing, mastering...
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I play both ways regularly, due to the different styles and genres of music that I play. I began playing finger-style, and then about a year in, I started using a pick (been playing 24 years now). I consider myself proficient in both styles. It takes a different approach when combating either style, but it does benefit you as an all-around player to be able to play both ways, regardless of what the "old-schoolers" and so-called "purists" may say.
I play with my fingers 99% of the time, but I can play with a pick easily when I do use one. I started on guitar so maybe that's why it's no big deal for me. Since I found that every time I played with a pick I would put it between my lips shortly after and continue playing with fingers, I learned how to play with my fingers in "pick" form where I'm basically picking with fingers without a pick. Took some adjustment but I think I'm pretty good with it now. It has an attack that's right in between finger and actual pick; which is a good compromise since now I switch between finger and "pick" styles seamlessly.
Just going to leave this here (Harley Flanagan from the Cro-Mags talking bass technique, skip to 1:40 because he starts off on drums)...
I watched another youtube vid of this guy (We Gotta Know). He plays like he doesn't give a $#<K... That's what's up.
For anybody who doesn't associate pick with funk bass, check out Bobby Vega:
More low punch with the down stroke, but I some how developed an up stroke style, so I chanced the angle of attack, almost an up in stroke and get more punch.
I have a chance to pick up an ABHS, does anyone know what this model is? I can't seem to find any info on it !
