Frustration with drummer.

[John j]

Talk the band into playing Zeppelin's Living Loving Maid.
If he's off, it will be obvious to everyone in the band.

 

[trailer]

It's first practice right? First of all give the guy a chance to get his crap together. Secondly give the rest of the guys a chance to notice for themselves that he sucks, if he never gets better. After a while if he still sucks and no one has noticed then say something. Or find another band because the other cats must suck too if they like playin with a hack drummer.

 

[Charlzm]

The bass drum doesn't sync with my parts. I am not saying I can feel any difference in 102 vs. 106 bpm, but if I'm playing a certain rhythm and the bass drum isn't with me on the notes, I can't do the song justice. I can tolerate a change in the song as long as it is learned correctly, but to not have the feel in the first place is not acceptable.

I'm confused... is it the bass drum parts or the tempo that's the issue?

 

[Downunderwonder]

He was all over the place with this one, too. It's almost the same bass drum rhythm:

For real? I am world's worst drummer never to play in a band but I am pretty sure I could hold that down.

 

[Pings Bass]

It always helps to communicate. Like say hey, check it out, I think the record goes like this, then play your part while singing the drum part. Maybe he didn't bother listening to the record. I've done this from time to time, most recently on into the mystic. Guitar player/singer/BL says "but we don't do it like Van Morrison." Drummer says let's try it, then launches into it with a too-fast straight ahead rock beat. I try playing the part, it's not working, so when we're done, I say hey check it out, I think the record goes like this... Next take was better. Nobody's fee-fees were hurt.

On the other hand, if the drummer's trying to lay down a different groove, you can always just get in there with him and lay it down. If it's not a tribute band, who cares if doesn't sound exactly the same. Open your ears, free your mind, and your groove will follow. Hit that thing.

What is the common factor in all 4 of those projects?

If you keep encountering the same problem with different drummers, maybe the problem isn't always 100% the other guy. Just sayin.

 

[flojob]

I see where folks are coming from with putting your pen stank on it. I can get in to that too. I think it really depends if everyone else is doing it though. If the rest of the band is doing it to source, then it just sounds like the drummer is sloppy. It's all context I think

 

[nnnnnn]

Since his bass drum parts are incorrect, his timing is way off concerning BPM.

Huh? These are two separate problems, and perhaps he does have both problems, but one does not lead to the other.

Regarding "incorrect", did the band as a group decide to replicate the original recorded arrangements?

The FIRST thing I do is listen to the bass drum when I learn my parts. Even I know the bass drum parts.

The first thing? The first thing I do when learning a bass line is listen to the bass line. There are many, many songs where the bass drum and bass guitar do not play the same rhythm, including other songs by the artists you mentioned.

 

[40Hz]

Of couse I could play it. If you want to be in a cover band, then do the cover. If you don't want to be in a cover band, then don't be in a cover band.

By the same token, if you want to be in a band, be in a band.

What you seem to be annoyed about is this band not doing a glorified form of karaoke.

You’ll need to learn to be a bit more flexible when it comes to music performance if you’re going to remain in any band. Most times an attitude that it’s “my way or the highway” isn’t going to get you anything other than the rest of the band pointing you towards the exit door.

 

[faulknersj]

OK. So, some friends of mine going back to the 60's-70's wanted to try to assemble a new band.

The good:
1. Awesome female singer who also knows harmony parts, is actually sane, and can really draw in bodies that wiggle.
2. Scorching, tasteful guitar player who doesn't play too loud, sings great, and can harmonize instantly.
3. Decent keyboard player who can sing some harmony.
4. Great songlist.

The bad:

We agree on 4 tunes to go over. I really dissected all the bass parts and got my $hit together. I was psyched.
The drummer had a good reputation around here.
So, at practice, all my work goes out the window simply because the drummer did not bother to play
the bass drum parts correctly.
I don't understand this at all. The same thing has happened in the last 3 bands I've been in.
The FIRST thing I do is listen to the bass drum when I learn my parts. Even I know the bass drum parts.
This one thing is a total show-stopper.
Any ideas on how to handle this? Since his bass drum parts are incorrect, his timing is way off concerning BPM.
What would you do? If this isn't fixed, I can't play with this lineup.
I simply refuse to play in a band with bass drum parts incomplete/missing/sloppy. I just can't deal with it.

How would you guys approach this? I am so irritated, I don't think I could be anything but blunt about it.
It doesn't seem like anybody else noticed, but I haven't spoken with anybody yet.
All I know is, I play the parts correctly with the BPM ingrained in my head.

I have never been that hyper-focused on a kick drum pattern...or needed a kick pattern to be identical to the recording to groove...

That’s just me...

How many practices are you basing this on?

 

[Ekulati]

Since his bass drum parts are incorrect, his timing is way off concerning BPM.

BPM is the tempo, which is different from the patterns: you can get one right and not the other.

If you're doing 60s and 70s music, at least the mainstream, accessible stuff, none of those drum parts are all that different from each other or complicated at all. I would say this guy simply doesn't have a feel for that music. (How old is he?) Or he's just not a good drummer.

My suggestion: start "acoustic," no drummer, get really tight with great vocals. No drummer is always better than a bad drummer. Then if you guys are good, you will attract a good drummer.

Edit: just went back and listened to the two songs. Those are gawdawful simple drum parts. Fire him.

 

[Medicine Man]

Many drummers don't even listen to the songs before rehearsal, much less work on them in my experience.

 

[neckdive]

I’m with the OP on this. The drummer just didn’t bother to learn the parts and just winged it, as many do. Why should drummers get a pass for not putting in the shed time to learn their specific parts to a set of agreed upon songs?

Expecting everyone, including the drummer, to learn their parts is not unreasonable. I’ve played with drummers that think they can come in and play any song without knowing the actual parts, yet would expect everyone else in the band to know their parts.

I’ve also played with drummers that put the homework in to adequately replicate the correct drum parts, so much so that you can play ‘Name That Tune’ with just the drum part. That doesn’t make it a tribute band. He just learned his part like everyone else is expected to do.

 

[3Liter]

Many drummers don't even listen to the songs before rehearsal, much less work on them in my experience.

Not limited to drummers. Sadly.

 

[Scottgun]

I'm firmly in the camp that you don't have to play songs exactly as the recording, however, I also believe you ought to know the rules before you break the rules, or in this case, know the part before you start changing it, and certainly let your bandmates in on what you are doing beforehand.

This however, is not another round in the age-old debate about covers which everyone seems to want to have. I think neckdive is right. I don't think this drummer is creatively changing a part he is knowledgeable about. I think he didn't bother to learn it and believes Casio Generic Rock Beat #2 is good enough for a classic song (it usually ain't).



Solutions? Dunno. How prepared is the rest of the band? If everyone else has their parts down, then you can present a united front. Gotta do something because generic drummer will turn the band generic and the world doesn't need more of those.

 

[Turbo Sparky]

Take this song for instance:



The bass drum is playing bum, buh-bum. Total groove.

TOTP is not live, the bands play to a instrumental track, in 99% of the "performances," and vocals are the only part "live." Kareoke.
I get your points.
IMO:
1. Record your rehearsals.
2. Practice to recorded drum groove.
3. Listen to the recordings and listen for the instrument(s) that is leading; which one is the majority following.
4. Yes, it should-should-be the rhythm section, either bass or drums.
I get the whole learning to learn songs properly (typically note for note), but I have learned that drummers are more difficult to replace than bass players.
Wanna get really ticked?
Play in a trio playing originals, which have been recorded and published, and have the drummer miss rolls, beats, accents when playing live. Who looks like the Dumass?
After some time, I have learned to be prepared to immediately follow the high-hat and/or Toms, pick faster or lay off and give some space.
Learn if the drummer is a energy drink player, adult beverage player, or 4:20. May help you.
Just roll with it in the long run, it's "covers," chillax.
Good luck.

 

[tycobb73]

As someone who books bands for a bar I'm telling you you're wrong. The drummer may or may not be good but if you're insisting on carbon copy i suggest you don't play in bands or live. The original artists probably aren't sticking close to the recorded version when playing live. It's the taking a song, making it your own, listening to and reacting to your band mates, and still making it recognizable and enjoyable for the audience that makes the live performance. I could just play the radio and not pay you and lessen my ascap fees if i wanted an exact copy.

 

[40Hz]

Why should drummers get a pass for not putting in the shed time to learn their specific parts to a set of agreed upon songs?

Possibly because most times the drum parts aren’t all that specific anyway?

Music isn’t a “color by numbers” and “stay inside the lines” art form. It’s also not an issue of giving free passes to the drummer. It’s about being a little less OCD about things like the kick part. Unless you’re one of those bass players that needs a specific kick pattern and tempo in order to keep yourself in time. And I’ve met plenty of those out there.

Either way, it’s a lot easier for a BL to find another bass player than it is to find another drummer. So if push comes to shove because a bass player is having major issues over a drummer not playing the exact same kick part as is on the recordings, I think I can safely predict which way it’s going to go. As well as who.

 

[-Stingray]

Happened in the last 4 bands? I think you need to relax a bit, and go with what flow there is. If the drummer is a compete hack, discuss it with your bandmates, and find a new drummer....or leave (again).

But imho it sounds like you're just too uptight about the whole "gotta sound just like the original" thing.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Try playing Lie To Me - Jonny Lang, Runaway - Bonnie Raitt, The Fixx - Saved By Zero, or Gary Moore - Still Got The Blues without the correct drum parts.
All these songs have a definite groove and will not sound good without a decent drummer.
edit: also Bonnie Raitt/Bryan Adams - Rock Steady.

ANY song can be played in a different groove - the Raite tuned was originally done in a different groove, Lang himself played the tune differently live, and Cocker made a career out of it.

 

[TreySonagras]

"Hey man, let's try this pattern. I think it would lock in good"

You gotta talk to people.....