Double Bass Full Circle affecting acoustic tone

[GordyGuy]

Hello

I've noticed on my last two basses that there is a big difference in the acoustic tone after I install the FC pickup. They both ended up with scooped sounds, ie. less mids.

Before selling my last bass I put the original bridge adjusters back on and it immediately had a more present detailed sound. I really like the sound of the FC as a pickup but I feel like it's sucking tone from my basses. Has anyone else noticed this?

 

[Chris Symer]

Yea, when the FC was on my bass I noticed quite a difference. One Schertler stat-b later and the problem was solved. The FC is a nice pickup though.....

 

[Ric Vice]

Hello

I've noticed on my last two basses that there is a big difference in the acoustic tone after I install the FC pickup. They both ended up with scooped sounds, ie. less mids.

Before selling my last bass I put the original bridge adjusters back on and it immediately had a more present detailed sound. I really like the sound of the FC as a pickup but I feel like it's sucking tone from my basses. Has anyone else noticed this?

Tyler,
Now I get why the a Realist would effect the tone quality a little since it sets right between the foot of the bridge and top of the instrument in proximity to the bass bar. On my bass it effects the acoustic sound of the instrument but I didn't stop using it because it bothered me all that much I just preferred the sound of the Ehrlund Pickup.
You're not the first person to comment on this however, I guess most piezo pickups interfere with the sound of the instrument, because they have to be placed in tight spaces between the bridge, top, sound post and bass bar. Since we all use adjusters I just assumed that the Full Circle wouldn't cause a problem.

Ric

 

[Jake deVilliers]

Hello

I've noticed on my last two basses that there is a big difference in the acoustic tone after I install the FC pickup. They both ended up with scooped sounds, ie. less mids.

Before selling my last bass I put the original bridge adjusters back on and it immediately had a more present detailed sound. I really like the sound of the FC as a pickup but I feel like it's sucking tone from my basses. Has anyone else noticed this?

Most definitely! The Full Circle and its companion adjuster are relatively heavy at 20 & 17.5 grams respectively for a total of 37.5g. For comparison, the aluminium adjusters from Metropolitan Music are 13 grams each for a total of 26g.

The Hofner two piece adjusters are only 8 1/2g each, so you could try using one of them as the FC companion adjuster but the heavy one is still going to be in the moving leg.

If you try the split pair, let us know how it turns out.

 

[GordyGuy]

thanks everyone

I'll try some experimenting with the companion adjuster to see if it helps.

In the end I don't mind if the tone is being affected a little bit. When you're playing with a drummer or left hand heavy piano player, you're gonna lose some of your sound competing for frequencies.

But, when I'm playing acoustic settings without a drummer or where I only need a mic to be heard, I'd like the option of easily removing the pickup when I want the bass' true sound.

Obviously easy removal is not possible with the FC. I may end up with a different pickup.

 

[Jake deVilliers]

thanks everyone

I'll try some experimenting with the companion adjuster to see if it helps.

In the end I don't mind if the tone is being affected a little bit. When you're playing with a drummer or left hand heavy piano player, you're gonna lose some of your sound competing for frequencies.

But, when I'm playing acoustic settings without a drummer or where I only need a mic to be heard, I'd like the option of easily removing the pickup when I want the bass' true sound.

Obviously easy removal is not possible with the FC. I may end up with a different pickup.

That's why I love my Underwood.

 

[pmad_bass]

OK....now I as starting to get cold feet. I have a Kolstein bridge (wooden adjusters) and am (maybe was) about to get it retro fitted with the Full Circle. I do like my current tone but it the FC is a tone killer- I will forgo. Considering the Barbera as a possible alternative (albeit in a differnt bridge).

 

[Uncletoad]

The Full Circle is not a "Tone Killer". There are circumstances where it has been noticed to make a difference in sound before and after. Sometimes that difference isn't bad it's helpful, sometimes its not acceptable, sometimes it's irrelevant. It is not enormous either way and certainly not a "tone killer".

Having said that if you play plugged in most of the time it's a very good pickup. The change in tone acoustically would be more than offset by the value of the electric tone. If you play more acoustically than electrically and you are worried about tone changes then use something you can take off your bass like a bass max, rev solo, underwood or realist.

I've not noticed much of a difference in tone on my instruments that have gone through a change. There is a difference but it's very very subtle on my basses. On all fours of the basses I've owned with full circles on them I wouldn't swap out that pickup for something else because of some changes in acoustic tone.

 

[iiipopes]

Most definitely! The Full Circle and its companion adjuster are relatively heavy at 20 & 17.5 grams respectively for a total of 37.5g. For comparison, the aluminium adjusters from Metropolitan Music are 13 grams each for a total of 26g.

Great info to have. Thanks. After reading this, I weighed the adjusters on my CCB. They look to be a solid brass or similar alloy, and they weigh 32 grams each!

 

[JtheJazzMan]

Most definitely! The Full Circle and its companion adjuster are relatively heavy at 20 & 17.5 grams respectively for a total of 37.5g. For comparison, the aluminium adjusters from Metropolitan Music are 13 grams each for a total of 26g.

The Hofner two piece adjusters are only 8 1/2g each, so you could try using one of them as the FC companion adjuster but the heavy one is still going to be in the moving leg.

If you try the split pair, let us know how it turns out.

Ill see your portly full circle and raise you a FC that has been on a drill bit diet.



Yes, a risky experiment, but it paid off since the tone sounds more natural to my ears. Less piezo-ey and more "puffy" like people want with gut strings.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

The Full Circle is not a "Tone Killer". There are circumstances where it has been noticed to make a difference in sound before and after. Sometimes that difference isn't bad it's helpful, sometimes its not acceptable, sometimes it's irrelevant. It is not enormous either way and certainly not a "tone killer".

Having said that if you play plugged in most of the time it's a very good pickup. The change in tone acoustically would be more than offset by the value of the electric tone. If you play more acoustically than electrically and you are worried about tone changes then use something you can take off your bass like a bass max, rev solo, underwood or realist.

I've not noticed much of a difference in tone on my instruments that have gone through a change. There is a difference but it's very very subtle on my basses. On all fours of the basses I've owned with full circles on them I wouldn't swap out that pickup for something else because of some changes in acoustic tone.

Well thpoken, thir. I completely agree.

 

[Ric Vice]

Well thpoken, thir. I completely agree.

I don't have a Full Circle because I have Ebony Adjusters. I do know that David Gage did some tests where he had players listen to a bass with and without adjusters, and it didn't seem to make that much of a difference. I'm not mechanically adept enough to perform that type of modification on a pickup.

Ric

 

[Jake deVilliers]

Ill see your portly full circle and raise you a FC that has been on a drill bit diet.

View attachment 198858

Yes, a risky experiment, but it paid off since the tone sounds more natural to my ears. Less piezo-ey and more "puffy" like people want with gut strings.

Well done J! What are the new weights?

Like Phil says, if most of your playing is done amplified, don't let the FC's slight damping characteristics get in your way - its a really good pickup.

Or you could send it to Australia to lose a little weight!

 

[JtheJazzMan]

Good question, the solid 2 piece alum adjuster was 14 grams and I drilled out about 4.5 grams. From memory I only got a smaller amount of metal off the FC, like 2 grams.

Theres not a lot of spots to take of metal. The diaphragm on the non-threaded half of the FC sits on a lip on the other half, which can be perforated (those are the holes around the edges). I also made the threads of both adjusters hollow, which is a good spot to remove plenty of metal.