Double Bass Full Circle replacement/backup?

[Adrian Cho]

Background story: I used to be really into gear but haven't played around with it much for a long time. I've had a Full Circle on my main bass for about seven years and it has served me fine. Good enough that I haven't bothered with a mic in a while.

I got a Full Circle on my Chadwick Folding bass and the wire into the RCA connector was clearly not properly crimped at the factory. Recently when I was taking the bass apart the jack was hanging off the end of the wire (something that has happened many times on my other Full Circle without problems) and the wire just came out of the RCA connector. I tried to get the RCA connector open to repair it but could not. I later figured out why when Charlie Chadwick told me the connectors are super-glued together by Fishman. I bought a new RCA connector and tried to solder the wire into it but didn't get it to work yet as I was lacking a third hand to hold the assembly together and my poor old eyes could barely see things. I'll have another go tomorrow.

However this brings me to the real point of the thread. This is a good time to look at alternatives. Even if I stay with the Full Circle it seems prudent to have a backup. I'm not really up with current stuff. I looked at the Gollihur, Upton, and Lemur sites. Some famiilar stuff and some new stuff. Any suggestions? I saw a few removable alternatives which seem they might be good for a folding bass.

While I'm at it I'm wondering if anybody knows of any bridge adjusters that would be a direct swap for the Full Circle if I choose to remove it completely (same threads)?

 

[Michael Eisenman]

As a backup, a bridge-wing pickup (for example, BassMax or Revolution Solo) should suffice.

If you decide to give up on the FC, just use it as a bridge adjuster (or maybe get another plain G-side adjuster from Fishman). I thought about that when my FC failed, as they're easy to turn. Anyway, I got a Lifeline PU.

 

[Kai Sanchez]

Call technical support at fishman, they'll sell you the adjusters.

 

[Jon Mush]

I had the same issue, and made an ugly at the gig fix--it took forever to get the connector apart to re-use it. It is definitely glued in there. :***:

I had another Jack installed by an electronics guy, and he attempted it twice. It seems there's kinda a Teflon-type insulation on the conductors, making it difficult to strip and tin up for soldering. Good luck.

I too have been wondering about backups and replacements. Where the wire connects at both ends of the FC seems to be a stress point. I've given up on the Fishman string mount as well, as it did pull out frequently under little to no stress (or lots, like the banjo player standing in my cable). I mounted it with a zip-tie facing downward on the back of the tailpiece. Super stealthy.

I'm wondering about the Lifeline too, as it's a mod-free solution. But the tonality of it on a ply bass may be too dark--I've always found it easier to add bottom than 'life'. Anyone have experience with it after many break-down cycles?

Ive been happy with the tone, absolutely, but there's that thing in the back of my mind wondering if the grass could be greener...

Oh, and Jake cautioned me that the FC pickup itself wasn't doing me any favours adding its mass to the bridge. If you play acoustically a lot it may be good to have that spare adjuster so you can swap it out. Maybe you'll notice the difference.

 

[Jeff Kissell]

Gage Lifeline! It has a similar sound to the Full Circle but is way more robust. Plus it's easily removable. I always take it off and stow it separately for travel.
It is ~1 1/2 adjuster turns thick.
-J

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

I had two "blank" FC adjusters in a bridge years ago, and it worked fine.

I vote get rid of the thing altogether. Your bass will tell you what pickup it likes, not the other way around...

 

[DoubleMIDI]

There are different threads for different Full Circles. I think is was mentioned on the Fishman website how to identify the thread of your adjusters to find the correct Full Circle version for it. You can go backwards...

 

[bassfacer22]

I have a full circle and the lifeline, Realist, and the bassmax and the Ehrlund and the Shadow double wing and the... god i don't even remember what I have now.. (i have a few more I can't even remember now, including an AMT mic and more..)

But the Full Circle is the one I've chosen as the best.. so what are you guys talking about??

are you guys implying that the white cable that connects to the jack will break? what? and it will just be out of the blue and happen randomly??

I also bought 2 bridges.. (its a portable bass though.. though i have 2 full size real basses..)

 

[Adrian Cho]

So after about three attempts I got the wire properly soldered into a replacement RCA jack and tested that everything works again. @bassfacer22, in my case what happened was that the wire was clearly never properly soldered/crimped into the RCA jack. It fell out quite easily. Then you find out that the stupid RCA jack is super-glued shut so you can forget about using that one again so you have to get a new one. The wire is a very thin coax and you have to strip it at two levels and solder two connections. It's pretty damn small and very finicky. Anyway, all fixed now but it has definitely been a lesson in how fragile the setup is.

The other weak point I have heard of is the wire into the adjuster itself. If that thing breaks then you're really screwed. Charlie Chadwick suggested that I also keep it on the inside of the bridge especially folding up the bass and putting the bridge in the bridge bad he supplies. Even on the bass I hear little difference in the position of the adjuster so I always have it on the inside anyway.

After further research last night I think I will get a Lifelife as a backup/new primary pickup. Sounds like the sound is decent and perhaps even a little more old-timey than the Full Circle and removable to boot. Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[bassfacer22]

ok well.. good luck with the lifeline.. it's not the most terrible thing.. but I have it and it's been sitting in the box ever since..

I realized that it is very loud on the bass strings and sounds very thin on the top 2 strings.. some people have this issue, some may not.. I did..

I also noticed that it really screws up your height if you don't have your bridge shaved down correctly to exactly where you want it..

now you will start to see why the full circle is better once you run into that problem with the lifeline..

You will also have to adjust the other adjuster to the correct height making it uneven sometimes..

but by all means.. i"m just giving you my experience with it.. obviously I'm one picky dude.. but take it for what its worth..


**EDIT.

oh hey, haha.. i didn't even mention about the sound, on the G-string, between the B and the D where your thumb comes down and stops on the neck joint and even maybe the F and F# will sound very nasally.. it's a piezo pickup.. and the full circle in my opinion can sound better..

Your bass may be different but I can try to find and show you my first-hand recording examples of the difference of the pickups..

the full circle wins..

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

As we all know, like any pickup the FC isn't perfect. Over the past 12 years I have had two fail on me - one on each bass. I consider it the cost of doing business, and just replace it. I have a Stat B as a backup but hope I don't have to use it as the FC does everything I want a pickup to do on the main bass and everybody I play with - including name artists I play with each year - are very complimentary of the tone and presence of my amplified sound and how it sits in the ensemble. So if it ain't broke...

And when it does break, I replace it with what I know and like.

 

[Jason Hollar]

I've gone through a few early FC models as well. I keep a Rev Solo installed and just need to swap jacks if the FC should fail.

 

[Mark Gollihur]

If you need further help, give me a call at the shop. I'm happy to talk through the options to help you decide if you need to change out - no obligation of course. Also, most Full Circles are 1/4"x20, and black adjusters in that size are easily available. You can figure out which ones you have here: Invalid Link Removed

 

[Adrian Cho]

So I got a Lifeline. The somewhat amusing thing was that I had it on the bass with the Full Circle and was A/B'ing them and the Full Circle stopped working. I assume the connection I painstakingly soldered has come apart although I didn't look closer to be sure and I don't care anymore. In a way I was glad it went as it was too damn fragile anyway and I was glad to get the piece of junk off my bass and I replaced it with a pair of anodized bridge adjusters I got from Gollihur Music.

In my opinion the Lifeline is great. It puts out a fatter sound than the FC so I had to roll the bass off further and also roll the mids off a bit but with those changes it sounds good to me. I actually prefer the sound over the Full Circle and until the Full Circle gave out I was A/B'ing back and forth between the two.

I'll be trying it tomorrow night with four horns and full rhythm section so we'll see how it goes in the mix but I expect it to be good based on all my experiments today. Definitely looks much better (less conspicuous) on the bass than the FC and it's less fragile. It's also easy to handle with the folding bass. Gollihur Music supply a nice jack to keep the plug attached to the back of the tailpiece. When I fold up the bass I just wrap the pickup part in a soft cloth and then secure it behind the tailpiece with an elastic, right near where the jack is.

 

[bassfacer22]

I had a different experience, I didn't like the lifeline.

Well of course every bass is different, but proof is in the pudding.. so.. here is my pudding..

This is the full circle.. recorded with H4N Zoom Recorder in High Quality with WalterWoods Amp and Epifani 4x10 Speaker.






Now, I also have the Lifeline and I will put it back on and A/B like you did with the Full Circle in the next week upcoming and post here if you want.. but it's pretty obvious which one wins for me.. for my taste anyway..

 

[Jon Mush]

I just sent my FC back for refurbishing and was able to borrow a Lifeline from a friend to get me through the next while. Adrian is right, it sounds huge. It is way darker on my Chadwick, necessitating a whole new approach EQ and HPF-wise. However, there is this beefy low mid thing about it that I quite like. I play mostly Country/Roots stuff with drums and loud guitars, and am very interested to try this at a gig to see if it gets me closer to where I feel I need to sit in the mix. The darker Lifeline is much more realistic under the stick as well. With the FC I felt like I needed two EQ settings. At this point I have no favorite, but see it like a different flavour.

I'm actually hoping something was very wrong with my FC and that it'll be the clear winner when I get it back. But we'll see. The mids seemed wishy-washy to me, and not very punchy. I've been concerned, but never burned by the reliability issues mentioned above. My cable breakage issues are due to 'banjo player interference' and I've remedied the situation by ditching the strings mounted jack scenario in favour of mounting it behind the tailpiece. My buddy was lamenting giving away his FC in favour of the Lifeline--so maybe a trade is a possibility if things trickle down another way.

I will say, that I borrowed a Headway EDB-2 yesterday, and it got me way closer to where I want to be over my present Pre. That's something else I need to address as well. I found strings I like. Out of one rabbit hole into another!