• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass Fulton Violin Plate Bending

In the old times we use librarys to order articles as a photocopy by surface mail or maybe later as a scan. It does cost a bit per page (paying for copyright and handling), but I got all my articles that I could not find at my university library that way. It can take some weeks or even months to get them, but if you know where it is published and which pages you need this should be still a way to get this article.

Did even work with my local library of my home town, but was a bit more expensive and took even longer (mainly to find out from which library they could get the article). They typically start the search regional then national and only go international if really needed. That takes some time, but might be quicker now with electronic catalogs.

Electronic catalogs can only take you so far. The person seeking the article has to know which journal, which volume of the journal, and the page numbers and ask specifically for that. The other libraries will not bird-dog this for you. Online catalogs are not that granular to provide this level of detail.

You would need to consult an electronic database or an old print bibliography to gather the minutiae.

Plus, you are at the mercy of the people on the other end with regard to turnaround time, even if the article can be located. They will send it when they get around to it.
 
Electronic catalogs can only take you so far. The person seeking the article has to know which journal, which volume of the journal, and the page numbers and ask specifically for that. The other libraries will not bird-dog this for you. Online catalogs are not that granular to provide this level of detail.

You would need to consult an electronic database or an old print bibliography to gather the minutiae.

Plus, you are at the mercy of the people on the other end with regard to turnaround time, even if the article can be located. They will send it when they get around to it.
I agree that journal, volume and also page number (or exact title) are needed to order an article.
It’s not the librarians duty to search for literature, only to make available what is asked for with an exact pointer to the source. The librarian only searches where this source is available and calls for it.

I just thought (since I don’t know the person which was looking for the article) that traditional search and delivery methods might got forgotten so that some (mostly from younger generations) neglect what is not available online immediately.
 
Here's the article Mr. Fulton wrote in the CAS Journals:

The bent violin top and back plate. Issue May '92 - page 24 - 27

CAS journal in SearchWorks catalog



IMG_0232.PNG IMG_0233.PNG IMG_0234.PNG IMG_0235.PNG
 
."

I have scanned the Futon article and made it into a PDF document. Anyone who wants it for their personal use, please send me an email that shows the email address where it should be sent. I can not send it through the TalkBass email facility. It is about 4 1/2 mb long.

.

Dear Mr. Branstetter or other Friends
can you send me this PDF of that 15 page article?
or any friend in forum can do this?
Great Thanks
its title is: "Bending of Violin Top Plates: a Hypothesis"
Its address: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
1991 (18th Convention, Pt. 1) PP 21-36, William M. Fulton

 
  • Like
Reactions: Martin Spure
Here's the article Mr. Fulton wrote in the CAS Journals:

The bent violin top and back plate. Issue May '92 - page 24 - 27

CAS journal in SearchWorks catalog



View attachment 5018873 View attachment 5018874 View attachment 5018875 View attachment 5018876

Dear Friend
the article you has sent is very very valuable, I am studying it,
it is not that 15 pages article of 1991: "Bending of Violin Top Plates: a Hypothesis"
but valuable results of bending is explained in it,
I hope other article become accessible, too.
thanks so much, again
 
  • Like
Reactions: Martin Spure
This is (sort of) what @Martin Spure is referencing.

CAS journal in SearchWorks catalog

Note that the library collecting this title is Stanford University's. A library that collects obscure titles like this must be the library of a flagship university. Smaller libraries could not afford such a niche publication.

The reasons these are niche publications are that they are not published by a university press or academic professional association, and their target audience is a numerically small group of enthusiasts or specialists. I am not going to consume space writing about the nuances of database searching or internet searching or using WorldCat or any of that other "librarian stuff." I will say that most of these niche publications are not indexed in online databases, largely because they cannot afford the indexing fees. American Luthierie is one such publication; Fretboard Journal is another.

What you can do is try internet searches for societies whose interests seem to align with the information you are seeking. If you enter the terms "double bass" society in the searchbox you should get, among other things, a hit for the ISB (I have not performed this exact search -- I am playing a hunch here -- but I have done similar searches for authors).

With your subject search terms you can pair circle, fellowship, society or any roughly equivalent term and your search results pretty much should be the same. Many of these societies have journals or newsletters (that are not indexed in databases) and some have back issues whose full text is available online. If not, you usually can purchase a copy of what you want, sort of like the interlibrary loan @DoubleMIDI referenced in post #62 above. Only this way you are provided the journal title, article title, etc. should you want to do an interlibrary loan request.

I should point out that although these newsletters/journals may not be peer-reviewed or even academic, their societies do have among their members acknowledged academics and scholars in their field.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sina F
This is (sort of) what @Martin Spure is referencing.

CAS journal in SearchWorks catalog

Note that the library collecting this title is Stanford University's. A library that collects obscure titles like this must be the library of a flagship university. Smaller libraries could not afford such a niche publication.

The reasons these are niche publications are that they are not published by a university press or academic professional association, and their target audience is a numerically small group of enthusiasts or specialists. I am not going to consume space writing about the nuances of database searching or internet searching or using WorldCat or any of that other "librarian stuff." I will say that most of these niche publications are not indexed in online databases, largely because they cannot afford the indexing fees. American Luthierie is one such publication; Fretboard Journal is another.

What you can do is try internet searches for societies whose interests seem to align with the information you are seeking. If you enter the terms "double bass" society in the searchbox you should get, among other things, a hit for the ISB (I have not performed this exact search -- I am playing a hunch here -- but I have done similar searches for authors).

With your subject search terms you can pair circle, fellowship, society or any roughly equivalent term and your search results pretty much should be the same. Many of these societies have journals or newsletters (that are not indexed in databases) and some have back issues whose full text is available online. If not, you usually can purchase a copy of what you want, sort of like the interlibrary loan @DoubleMIDI referenced in post #62 above. Only this way you are provided the journal title, article title, etc. should you want to do an interlibrary loan request.

I should point out that although these newsletters/journals may not be peer-reviewed or even academic, their societies do have among their members acknowledged academics and scholars in their field.

Article: Bending of violin top plates: a hypothesis.
Journal: Journal of the Violin Society of America [0148-6845]

Author: FULTON, WILLIAM
Year: 1991 Volume: 11 Issue: 2 Page: 21
Bending of violin top plates: a hypothesis. in SearchWorks articles
 
  • Like
Reactions: Martin Spure
@Sina F - I don’t know if this is helpful, but it might get you a little further in your quest:

https://search.library.berkeley.edu/discovery/search?query=any,contains,Fulton,AND&query=issn,contains,(01486845 OR 23311304),AND&tab=Default_UCLibrarySearch&search_scope=DN_and_CI&sortby=rank&vid=01UCS_BER:UCB&mode=advanced&offset=0

AB68B9E9-A589-488C-9CC8-0539FC975824.png



You might also be able to order the Journals above directly at the The Violin Society of America (scroll to bottom of page) :

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Or you can try this link (requires membership) :

Violin Society of America: Search

Personally, I’d try emailing VSA via the email mentioned on their website, and ask if these articles by William Fulton indeed are found in those journals and how to obtain them.
 
Last edited:
@Sina F - I don’t know if this is helpful, but it might get you a little further in your quest:

https://search.library.berkeley.edu/discovery/search?query=any,contains,Fulton,AND&query=issn,contains,(01486845 OR 23311304),AND&tab=Default_UCLibrarySearch&search_scope=DN_and_CI&sortby=rank&vid=01UCS_BER:UCB&mode=advanced&offset=0

View attachment 5020925


You might also be able to order the Journals above directly at the The Violin Society of America (scroll to bottom of page) :

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Or you can try this link (requires membership) :

Violin Society of America: Search

Personally, I’d try emailing VSA via the email mentioned on their website, and ask if these articles by William Fulton indeed are found in those journals and how to obtain them.

Dear Martin,
I am really thankful for your kind help and guidance ,
unfortunately we need a member of Berkley university to access those valuable sources,
even I offered Mr. Bob( who claimed above(2006) has scanned the article and can email it) to pay its price, but he said those was for 20 years ago and he has not them, yet.

I hope we find any way, specially for all valuable sources you found at Berkley.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Martin Spure
So if I understand correctly, he's forming the top and bottom plates into their compound curves by a combination of chemical treatment, heat, (steam????) and pressing?

It seems like this ought to work, but isn't the loss of the arching a risk? Is it any more risk than the loss of the arch made by carving? In a world where 3d CNC mills can replace the tedious material-hogging tasks once done by apprentices, leaving only the final graduation to be done by hand, is there any actual benefit to forming the plates?

I remember decades ago reading a proposal that the center part of the violin top, between the F holes, could be made of a single thin strip, bent (not compound-formed), and then glued to two wings that would be carved in the normal way. The theory was that the center strip, at least, would have grain running uninterrupted down its whole length, giving some benefit.

Does anyone know if this has been tried and with what results?
 
I happen to own one of Bill Fulton's "bent plate" violins. Bill and I were friends for many years, as we attended week-long chamber Music Workshops in Chico, CA and Ashland OR. We had many talks about violin building, and bent plates, but nothing on his varnish. Bill was a decent violinist.. At least, he got by playing string quartets and such at the workshops. The violin that he offered to me was one of three he built about 1990 or so, all identical and with the bent plates--and his "propolis" varnish. I really didn't need another violin. I already had a couple nice violins by Collin-mezin and Francois Breton. But I took it anyway. These three particular Fulton violins were part of a double blind test along with some (unknown) expensive Cremona violin. The Futon violins all placed ahead of the Italian violin.

This particular violin played well, although I admit I didn't fall in love with it. It seemed rather
"muted" compared to my French violins. The "propolis" varnish was heavy, a bit too opaque and seemed dull compared to the standard hard shiny oil varnish.

Bill Fulton was well respected in the scientific violin-building community. however, I don't think his bent plate theory or his varnish formula really caught on with modern luthiers. Perhaps in some future generation his methods could become commonplace.

Floyd Carter [email protected]
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sina F
I found Fulton's article in one of the past issues of the Violin Society of America Journals. It is about 15 pages long, but I'll see if I can make a pdf of it for those interested. All I ask is that you promise not to post it or distribute it anywhere on the internet since it is copyrighted material from a private organization.

Can anyone help me to find this article about bent plate violin?
I will be thankful
 
the original article I don't know, but this article is a bit more accessible I think

https://helenviolinmaker.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Dartington-talk-transcript-with-pics.pdf

Thanks Mr. Tucker,
I had read this valuable article of Helen MichetShlager,
But I was searching perhaps I can find original papers of Decedent William Fulton and any other one.
Some of them I found their title, but could not find any file to download.

Catgut Acoustical Society Newsletter and Journal:

Fulton, W. M. The bent violin top and back plate. Vol. 2, No. 1, p. 24-27. May 1992
Fulton, W. M. Making violins with bent plates. (abstract) Vol. 2, No. 4, p. 49. Nov. 1993
Gadd, C. W. Use of a bent top to reduce long-term violin deformation. Vol. 3, No. 3, p. 45-47. May 1997 (I could download this item)

Owen, I. Bent violin fronts. (Note) Vol. 1, No. 6, p. 38. Nov. 1990
Rodgers, O. E. The adequacy of thin shell finite element analysis methods and a comment on bent plates. (Brief) Vol. 2, No. 1, p. 37-38. May 1992

Journal of the Violin So- ciety of America:

Bending of Violin Top Plates : A Hypothesis ' , Journal of the Violin So- ciety of America , vol . 11 , no . 2 ( 1991 ) , pp . 21–26


I am sure there some other papers about this topic I could not list them yet.
And Fulton has a video about this technique, too , but I could not find it, too.

I hope any one has access to above articles or video, help me,
Thanks





 
[QUOTE="Martin Spure,
Personally, I’d try emailing VSA via the email mentioned on their website, and ask if these articles by William Fulton indeed are found in those journals and how to obtain them.[/QUOTE]

Dear Martine
Hullo
first of all, thanks for those valuable and useful links you sent, above.
and you sent an article of fulton from CAS, too, it was very useful for me, too.
God Bless you Dear Martin.
Could you ask them if they can paper:
Bending of Violin Top Plates : A Hypothesis ' , Journal of the Violin Society of America , vol . 11 , no . 2 ( 1991 ) , pp . 21–26

Excuse me if I take your time, too much,
Thanks for your valuable helps,
 
Bob, I have the original booklet from Bill Fulton which I got at the VSA meeting in New Mexico years ago. He gave a thorough talk describing the process and some history relating to why this might have been a common method. I have had this in the back of my mind ever since but have not acted. Keep us posted.
Dear Ken McKay
Hullo
I hope you be fine,
in a topic about Bill Fulton's bent plate method you was told you has the original book of Fulton:
"Bob, I have the original booklet from Bill Fulton which I got at the VSA meeting in New Mexico years ago. He gave a thorough talk describing the process and some history relating to why this might have been a common method. I have had this in the back of my mind ever since but have not acted. Keep us posted."

This book is critical for my researchs, but unfortunately it is a rare book I could not find anywhere!
Can I request to have a copy or scan of it?
If you say I can pay all costs.
I am researcher and need this valuable resource.

I hope gain your valuable help,
Sincerely yours
Sina Faramarzi