Future Impact now available!! WAS: deep impact reissue!!! interested?

[Chizzops]

I purchased the Future Impact v4 VIP and when I try to update from 4.11 (which is what it says when I turn it on) I get the following message: "FI not present or a communication error has occurred"

I have tried updating the unit via the web process as well as downloading files from Panda Audio's website, but I get the same message each time.

The Future Impact is connected to my 64 bit DELL desktop (windows 11) via a Sanoxy USB MIDI Music Cable. The FI editor software says v4.12. I tried installing midi drivers via Windows Update and Device Manager, but both say I'm up to date.

On pages 27-29 of the user manual it says to set my MIDI preferences/device settings. My drop down menu for FI Input Device shows “USB 2.0-MIDI O” and for FI Output Device gives an option for either “USB 2.0-MIDI” or “MIDIOUT 2 (USB 2.0 MIDI)”. I assume these choices are a function of the USB/MIDI cable I connected between the unit and my computer. I have tried configuring my MIDI preferences in all the available options.

The online update method walks you through the process and the update mode is the last thing it tells you to do before you click update so I know I was in update mode with the flashing red light, but once I click OK to update, I get the response that is the subject of this thread.

I have the Tonex Bass Pedal and the Helix Stadium XL and other gadgets that require similar software set up and updating and everything has gone smoothly. I have spent a huge amount of time googling, asking AI, reading through forums, and otherwise trying to solve this myself, but here I am.

Given my past install and set up successes, my gut tells me there is something wrong with the unit, but maybe one of you will point out there's something wrong with me

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

It's possibly the driver for the USB to Midi cable. It should work with the new native Windows 11 driver since the February update, but some drivers are causing fits. Here's the discord where you can get help with that: Join the Windows MIDI / Audio Discord Server!

 

[Music Attorney]

Make sure you plug MIDI cables into the FI’s input and output.

Make sure the cables are plugged into the correct ports on the FI. This is honestly the most common cause of people getting an error message. Even seasoned users sometimes stumble here.

As for selecting the MIDI ports in the editor, make sure both are exactly the same (aside from a single number at the end to distinguish them).

Make sure you haven’t accidentally chosen keyboard input instead of FI input.

Make sure no other MIDI connections are active. (If trying to update via the editor, close Chrome.)

Make sure to put the pedal in update mode before choosing the update file: hold both footswitches while powering on, release them once the on LED is blinking slowly.

It is possible that windows 11 is causing issues with drivers; I have heard of more general USB MIDI issues (unrelated to the FI).

I’ve not yet heard of a non-functional FI.

Thank you for the thorough and helpful response. When I was unable to update and started doing some research, I came across your patches and got a glimpse of how much you contribute to the community. Much appreciated.

"Make sure you plug MIDI cables into the FI’s input and output."

I'm not tech savvy, but since there are only 2 MIDI ports on the unit, I'm pretty sure I'm connecting the cables into those ports

"Make sure the cables are plugged into the correct ports on the FI. This is honestly the most common cause of people getting an error message. Even seasoned users sometimes stumble here."

I am using a Sanoxy USB MIDI Music Cable. The cables are not marked in or out, but I have switched them mutliple times when trying to update just in case one is for a specific port.

"Make sure you haven’t accidentally chosen keyboard input instead of FI input."

I saw that option and did not choose it.

"Make sure no other MIDI connections are active. (If trying to update via the editor, close Chrome.)"

My computer does not have midi ports (hence the USB to MIDI cable) so the midi cable I'm using is the only midi connection.

"Make sure to put the pedal in update mode before choosing the update file: hold both footswitches while powering on, release them once the on LED is blinking slowly."

The red light has blinked every time prior to trying to update.

"It is possible that windows 11 is causing issues with drivers; I have heard of more general USB MIDI issues (unrelated to the FI)."

That's why updated drives to minimize possible issues. I don't see anything online with someone going through what I am and I assume at least a few other owners besides me are using Windows 11.

"I’ve not yet heard of a non-functional FI."

Good to know. As I said in my post, it's probab;y me. I can hear the pataches and they sound great and I love the midi option so I can switch patches using my Helix Stadium, but I have spent a lot of time (and now the time of others) trying to get this to update (which is an important update) so I may just have to send it back.

Take good care.

 

[Music Attorney]

It's possibly the driver for the USB to Midi cable. It should work with the new native Windows 11 driver since the February update, but some drivers are causing fits. Here's the discord where you can get help with that: Join the Windows MIDI / Audio Discord Server!

I will check the link and perhaps my question is answered there, but do you think/know whether a different midi cable might make a difference. If so, any recommendations on which one?

Really appreciate the help. Would love to get this up to date and not return it.

 

[Luke the Fluke]

"Make sure no other MIDI connections are active. (If trying to update via the editor, close Chrome.)"

My computer does not have midi ports (hence the USB to MIDI cable) so the midi cable I'm using is the only midi connection.

This means on the software side, not hardware. Ie if chrome is open, or any other software that uses midi

 

[Quatschmacher]

Thank you for the thorough and helpful response. When I was unable to update and started doing some research, I came across your patches and got a glimpse of how much you contribute to the community. Much appreciated.

"Make sure you plug MIDI cables into the FI’s input and output."

I'm not tech savvy, but since there are only 2 MIDI ports on the unit, I'm pretty sure I'm connecting the cables into those ports

"Make sure the cables are plugged into the correct ports on the FI. This is honestly the most common cause of people getting an error message. Even seasoned users sometimes stumble here."

I am using a Sanoxy USB MIDI Music Cable. The cables are not marked in or out, but I have switched them mutliple times when trying to update just in case one is for a specific port.

"Make sure you haven’t accidentally chosen keyboard input instead of FI input."

I saw that option and did not choose it.

"Make sure no other MIDI connections are active. (If trying to update via the editor, close Chrome.)"

My computer does not have midi ports (hence the USB to MIDI cable) so the midi cable I'm using is the only midi connection.

"Make sure to put the pedal in update mode before choosing the update file: hold both footswitches while powering on, release them once the on LED is blinking slowly."

The red light has blinked every time prior to trying to update.

"It is possible that windows 11 is causing issues with drivers; I have heard of more general USB MIDI issues (unrelated to the FI)."

That's why updated drives to minimize possible issues. I don't see anything online with someone going through what I am and I assume at least a few other owners besides me are using Windows 11.

"I’ve not yet heard of a non-functional FI."

Good to know. As I said in my post, it's probab;y me. I can hear the pataches and they sound great and I love the midi option so I can switch patches using my Helix Stadium, but I have spent a lot of time (and now the time of others) trying to get this to update (which is an important update) so I may just have to send it back.

Take good care.

OK. We can troubleshoot to rule out some stuff if you have a standard MIDI cable to hand.

Set your FI’s MIDI channel to ALL (under CHA in the Global menu). Your Helix Stadium can send out MIDI PC messages so plug the Stadium’s 5-pin MIDI out into the FI’s MIDI in. Now changing patches (between 1-99) on the Stadium should induce a change on the FI and confirm the MIDI input is working.

If you set your stadium to channel 1, you should be able to connect the FI MIDI output to the stadium MIDI input. Changing patches on the FI should change patches on the stadium.

Now, plug in your midi interface to the computer and go to midimonitor.com on a chrome browser. It should show up as a device connect the interface input cable to the FI’s MIDI output. Changing patches on the FI should show an incoming PC message on the monitor. If it doesn’t, try the other cable. Whichever of those two cables works is the input. Label it as such.

Close chrome.

Plug the interface output cable into the FI’s MIDI input. (Also keep the previously-identified MIDI interface input cable plugged into the FI’s MIDI output.)

Launch the 4.11 editor. Select the MIDI input and output in the preferences menu and click OK. Now move some sliders in the editor and you should see - - in the pedal display indicating connection.

Doing the above tests successfully should show that the pedal ports and the interface cables are functioning properly. Assuming that, put the pedal into update mode and then select “firmware update” from the menu and try the update again.

 

[Quatschmacher]

This means on the software side, not hardware. Ie if chrome is open, or any other software that uses midi

Yes, ensure any midi-capable programs are closed, irrespective of whether or not a cable is attached. So DAW, chrome, line6 software, etc. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Music Attorney]

OK. We can troubleshoot to rule out some stuff if you have a standard MIDI cable to hand.

Set your FI’s MIDI channel to ALL (under CHA in the Global menu). Your Helix Stadium can send out MIDI PC messages so plug the Stadium’s 5-pin MIDI out into the FI’s MIDI in. Now changing patches (between 1-99) on the Stadium should induce a change on the FI and confirm the MIDI input is working.

If you set your stadium to channel 1, you should be able to connect the FI MIDI output to the stadium MIDI input. Changing patches on the FI should change patches on the stadium.

Now, plug in your midi interface to the computer and go to midimonitor.com on a chrome browser. It should show up as a device connect the interface input cable to the FI’s MIDI output. Changing patches on the FI should show an incoming PC message on the monitor. If it doesn’t, try the other cable. Whichever of those two cables works is the input. Label it as such.

Close chrome.

Plug the interface output cable into the FI’s MIDI input. (Also keep the previously-identified MIDI interface input cable plugged into the FI’s MIDI output.)

Launch the 4.11 editor. Select the MIDI input and output in the preferences menu and click OK. Now move some sliders in the editor and you should see - - in the pedal display indicating connection.

Doing the above tests successfully should show that the pedal ports and the interface cables are functioning properly. Assuming that, put the pedal into update mode and then select “firmware update” from the menu and try the update again.

Wow. Grateful. I gotta protect some artists and producers today at work and a client is in town to rehearse for Coachella and wants to have dinner tonight which will run late. May not be able to get to this until tomorrow. Appreciate your patience.

 

[cookn]

Hey all, I think this got lost in the announcements, any Gap Band-esque patches out there?

I did a patch for „burn rubber on me“. Could upload it next weekend.

 

[Chizzops]

I will check the link and perhaps my question is answered there, but do you think/know whether a different midi cable might make a difference. If so, any recommendations on which one?

Really appreciate the help. Would love to get this up to date and not return it.

Do you have a keyboard or some other midi controller you could plug into the cable to test whether it works? The new midi driver includes a midi settings, and this link provides more tools and options for controlling the midi in Windows 11. You should be able to go in there and make sure the midi cable is working. The Discord channel can help you with questions about it. Maybe you could also test the midi out function on the FI if you don't have any other midi controller to see if it's at least sending notes (patches 1-9, I believe, on the FI have external midi on) if you have a DAW or a VST instrument you could control with midi.
Hope you can get it working!

 

[Music Attorney]

OK. We can troubleshoot to rule out some stuff if you have a standard MIDI cable to hand.

Set your FI’s MIDI channel to ALL (under CHA in the Global menu). Your Helix Stadium can send out MIDI PC messages so plug the Stadium’s 5-pin MIDI out into the FI’s MIDI in. Now changing patches (between 1-99) on the Stadium should induce a change on the FI and confirm the MIDI input is working.

If you set your stadium to channel 1, you should be able to connect the FI MIDI output to the stadium MIDI input. Changing patches on the FI should change patches on the stadium.

Now, plug in your midi interface to the computer and go to midimonitor.com on a chrome browser. It should show up as a device connect the interface input cable to the FI’s MIDI output. Changing patches on the FI should show an incoming PC message on the monitor. If it doesn’t, try the other cable. Whichever of those two cables works is the input. Label it as such.

Close chrome.

Plug the interface output cable into the FI’s MIDI input. (Also keep the previously-identified MIDI interface input cable plugged into the FI’s MIDI output.)

Launch the 4.11 editor. Select the MIDI input and output in the preferences menu and click OK. Now move some sliders in the editor and you should see - - in the pedal display indicating connection.

Doing the above tests successfully should show that the pedal ports and the interface cables are functioning properly. Assuming that, put the pedal into update mode and then select “firmware update” from the menu and try the update again.

"Set your FI’s MIDI channel to ALL (under CHA in the Global menu)."

I followed the instructions on the pedal and with the parameter knob in the note off level I navigated to CHA and then pressed the on/off switch that I understood to save that change.

"Your Helix Stadium can send out MIDI PC messages so plug the Stadium’s 5-pin MIDI out into the FI’s MIDI in. Now changing patches (between 1-99) on the Stadium should induce a change on the FI and confirm the MIDI input is working."

Yes, when I click a preset on the Helix it changes the number on the v4.

"If you set your stadium to channel 1, you should be able to connect the FI MIDI output to the stadium MIDI input. Changing patches on the FI should change patches on the stadium."

Yes, when I change patches on the v4 it changes presets on the Helix

"Now, plug in your midi interface to the computer and go to midimonitor.com on a chrome browser. It should show up as a device"

Under MIDI Devices it says USB2.0-MIDI

"connect the interface input cable to the FI’s MIDI output. Changing patches on the FI should show an incoming PC message on the monitor. If it doesn’t, try the other cable. Whichever of those two cables works is the input. Label it as such."

When I change the patch on the v4, the midimonitor screen shows a timestamp, the USB 2.0-MIDI device, and the change type as Program Change.

"Close chrome." Done.

"Plug the interface output cable into the FI’s MIDI input. (Also keep the previously-identified MIDI interface input cable plugged into the FI’s MIDI output.)"

Done

"Launch the 4.11 editor. Select the MIDI input and output in the preferences menu and click OK."

My editor says v4.12. I launched it and the MIDI Device Settings menu says FI Input Device “USB2.0-MIDI 0” and the FI Output Device says “USB2.0-MIDI” and I clicked OK.

"Now move some sliders in the editor and you should see - - in the pedal display indicating connection."

The upper left hand corner displays the preset I choose in the Manager tab and when I move the sliders the numbers change.

"Doing the above tests successfully should show that the pedal ports and the interface cables are functioning properly. Assuming that, put the pedal into update mode and then select “firmware update” from the menu and try the update again."

Nope. Same error message.

 

[Music Attorney]

This means on the software side, not hardware. Ie if chrome is open, or any other software that uses midi

Thank you. I closed everything when trying to upload the file via the editor, but, for the record, Panda offers an online update but only through a chrome browser.

 

[Music Attorney]

Do you have a keyboard or some other midi controller you could plug into the cable to test whether it works? The new midi driver includes a midi settings, and this link provides more tools and options for controlling the midi in Windows 11. You should be able to go in there and make sure the midi cable is working. The Discord channel can help you with questions about it. Maybe you could also test the midi out function on the FI if you don't have any other midi controller to see if it's at least sending notes (patches 1-9, I believe, on the FI have external midi on) if you have a DAW or a VST instrument you could control with midi.
Hope you can get it working!

Thank you. Sincerely appreciate the help.

 

[Music Attorney]

@Quatschmacher​

@Chizzops​

Here's what I got from the company that sold me the unit.

"I think I may know what the problem is though. The ToneX and Helix handle firmware updates through a standard USB connection, and because standard USB cables are relatively consistent, it makes sense that you wouldn't have had any problems updating them. USB-Midi interfaces on the other hand can be very inconsistent, especially the smaller cable units like the Sanoxy you have.The major problem I've seen with these types of interfaces is that they often only recognize basic midi messages like note, velocity, control change, and program change messages; basically all the message types a beginner would need to plug a keyboard into their computer and play.Both the editor and firmware updater for the Future Impact use sysex messages. These are more complex, and often ignored on cheaper/smaller USB-Midi interfaces because they use older/slower processors that can’t handle that much data without significantly increasing latency. Since most people use these with basic keyboards, their manufacturers opted for less latency, which makes sense, but is aggravating in situations like this.I actually have an older Future Impact and I had this exact same problem when I tried to use it with my M-Audio Uno USB-Midi interface, which is pretty much the same form factor as yours. It took me forever to figure out, but eventually I just tried connecting it to the midi jacks on my Scarlett audio interface and it worked fine. That’s when I started looking at reviews of the Uno, saw that other people couldn’t get it to work with sysex either, and that a lot of the other interfaces in that form factor had the same problem. I just looked through some reviews of the Sanoxy and found a good amount saying the same thing, which is why I’m pretty confident that this is the source of your problem.
If you have an audio interface like the Scarlett, or any that has midi in and out jacks on it, I’d recommend trying it with that. I’ve tested a good amount of audio interfaces, and none of them had any problems with their midi interface. Given that they’re built for A/D audio conversion though, it makes sense that their processors can handle midi.If you don’t have something like that, I’d probably recommend getting the iConnectivity MioXC. It’s in the same form factor as the Sanoxy, but it’s one of the only ones like that I’ve found that actually transmits and receives midi sysex. It’s a bit more expensive, around $50, but it has USB-C with a standard USB adapter, plus a modern ARM processor. They do have a cheaper Mio interface, around $40, that can handle sysex as well, but given that the problem with these interfaces seems to always stem from outdated processors, I’d probably lean on the side of caution and spend the extra $10. "
I've ordered the iConnectivity MioXC cable and will try that.

'Thanks, everyone.

 

[Quatschmacher]

"Set your FI’s MIDI channel to ALL (under CHA in the Global menu)."

I followed the instructions on the pedal and with the parameter knob in the note off level I navigated to CHA and then pressed the on/off switch that I understood to save that change.

"Your Helix Stadium can send out MIDI PC messages so plug the Stadium’s 5-pin MIDI out into the FI’s MIDI in. Now changing patches (between 1-99) on the Stadium should induce a change on the FI and confirm the MIDI input is working."

Yes, when I click a preset on the Helix it changes the number on the v4.

"If you set your stadium to channel 1, you should be able to connect the FI MIDI output to the stadium MIDI input. Changing patches on the FI should change patches on the stadium."

Yes, when I change patches on the v4 it changes presets on the Helix

"Now, plug in your midi interface to the computer and go to midimonitor.com on a chrome browser. It should show up as a device"

Under MIDI Devices it says USB2.0-MIDI

"connect the interface input cable to the FI’s MIDI output. Changing patches on the FI should show an incoming PC message on the monitor. If it doesn’t, try the other cable. Whichever of those two cables works is the input. Label it as such."

When I change the patch on the v4, the midimonitor screen shows a timestamp, the USB 2.0-MIDI device, and the change type as Program Change.

"Close chrome." Done.

"Plug the interface output cable into the FI’s MIDI input. (Also keep the previously-identified MIDI interface input cable plugged into the FI’s MIDI output.)"

Done

"Launch the 4.11 editor. Select the MIDI input and output in the preferences menu and click OK."

My editor says v4.12. I launched it and the MIDI Device Settings menu says FI Input Device “USB2.0-MIDI 0” and the FI Output Device says “USB2.0-MIDI” and I clicked OK.

"Now move some sliders in the editor and you should see - - in the pedal display indicating connection."

The upper left hand corner displays the preset I choose in the Manager tab and when I move the sliders the numbers change.

"Doing the above tests successfully should show that the pedal ports and the interface cables are functioning properly. Assuming that, put the pedal into update mode and then select “firmware update” from the menu and try the update again."

Nope. Same error message.

Your reply seems to have missed out a bit of information I need:

With the interface out output cable plugged into the FI’s MIDI input, moving sliders on the editor should show “- - “ in the PEDAL’s display; does this happen? If it does not, it is likely the cable that is defective.

Clearly the FI’s ports are functioning correctly from the tests you have done.

Whilst that info about the cable from the seller is true for the older FI units, the FI4 is designed to work with cheaper interfaces as the packet sizes were reduced. I did testing on a really old crappy basic interface and it worked fine.

 

[pb9717]

hey Q,

Whats the release date on V4.5?….please don’t say ..”soon” .

I have 2 separate gigs that use those DX7 sounds, and upgraded from a V3 to a 4.5VIP for this season just to take advantage of those presets.

So ..should we expect this before April? Baited breathe and all that.

 

[Chizzops]

@Quatschmacher​

@Chizzops​

Here's what I got from the company that sold me the unit.

"I think I may know what the problem is though. The ToneX and Helix handle firmware updates through a standard USB connection, and because standard USB cables are relatively consistent, it makes sense that you wouldn't have had any problems updating them. USB-Midi interfaces on the other hand can be very inconsistent, especially the smaller cable units like the Sanoxy you have.The major problem I've seen with these types of interfaces is that they often only recognize basic midi messages like note, velocity, control change, and program change messages; basically all the message types a beginner would need to plug a keyboard into their computer and play.Both the editor and firmware updater for the Future Impact use sysex messages. These are more complex, and often ignored on cheaper/smaller USB-Midi interfaces because they use older/slower processors that can’t handle that much data without significantly increasing latency. Since most people use these with basic keyboards, their manufacturers opted for less latency, which makes sense, but is aggravating in situations like this.I actually have an older Future Impact and I had this exact same problem when I tried to use it with my M-Audio Uno USB-Midi interface, which is pretty much the same form factor as yours. It took me forever to figure out, but eventually I just tried connecting it to the midi jacks on my Scarlett audio interface and it worked fine. That’s when I started looking at reviews of the Uno, saw that other people couldn’t get it to work with sysex either, and that a lot of the other interfaces in that form factor had the same problem. I just looked through some reviews of the Sanoxy and found a good amount saying the same thing, which is why I’m pretty confident that this is the source of your problem.
If you have an audio interface like the Scarlett, or any that has midi in and out jacks on it, I’d recommend trying it with that. I’ve tested a good amount of audio interfaces, and none of them had any problems with their midi interface. Given that they’re built for A/D audio conversion though, it makes sense that their processors can handle midi.If you don’t have something like that, I’d probably recommend getting the iConnectivity MioXC. It’s in the same form factor as the Sanoxy, but it’s one of the only ones like that I’ve found that actually transmits and receives midi sysex. It’s a bit more expensive, around $50, but it has USB-C with a standard USB adapter, plus a modern ARM processor. They do have a cheaper Mio interface, around $40, that can handle sysex as well, but given that the problem with these interfaces seems to always stem from outdated processors, I’d probably lean on the side of caution and spend the extra $10. "
I've ordered the iConnectivity MioXC cable and will try that.

'Thanks, everyone.

I use a "Lekato" USB to Midi cable, which was $20 on the site that shall not be named, and works.

hey Q,

Whats the release date on V4.5?….please don’t say ..”soon” .

I have 2 separate gigs that use those DX7 sounds, and upgraded from a V3 to a 4.5VIP for this season just to take advantage of those presets.

So ..should we expect this before April? Baited breathe and all that.

They said here in this threat in 8-10 days to work out some final bugs, and that was 8 days ago, I think. I keep checking every day, too!

 

[pb9717]

Yea, my gigs start this Saturday and don’t stop till August. I really need that update.

 

[Luke the Fluke]

patience - nice stable reliable software tomorrow is always better than buggy things today

 

[bruno40gr]

patience - nice stable reliable software tomorrow is always better than buggy things today

Yeah, but at least the new stock patches?

 

[pb9717]

These patches were demonstrated last year. Investments were made in lieu of this software release. My frustration is warranted.