• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass Gage Soundclip

#41
Mark

thanks for writing up your impressions on this.

it definitely has advantages over the "foil plate" piezo in that it is movable, detachable, and can be adjusted in a number of ways. i think it's great that David Gage came up with this kind of improvement. it doesn't sit between the bridge and top, and that is also filling a long-felt need imho.

but if it sounds just like the standard foil Realist does (of which i have the first edition and the second "improved" one and use quite often, though they are getting old now like me :atoz:) i don't know if the mobility aspect alone is worth the extra $$$.

i'd be interested to hear your opinion again if it develops after you've played it a while, you know, if you find it does sound more linear, more focused.

interesting, for about the same money you can get a Vektor mic or an Ehrlund mic/pickup and these are both movable. The Vektor can be detached, and the Ehrlund can be positioned anywhere on the top. Both are bassed on different technologies than just piezo, and the difference in sound in comparison to piezo is remarkable. i have both of these, and soundwise they both beat a piezo, but there are some trade-offs there too... ahh, nothing is ever perfect! :D

Bill
 
#42
Hey Bill.

I should elaborate that it probably doesn't sound EXACTLY like The Realist but on my basses it sounds remarkable similar to it. Certainly, on my basses, it shares enough characteristics with the Realist that if you were to listen to it blindfolded, you'd almost certainly ID it as a Realist. They clearly share some pickup DNA though but as fraternal rather than identical twins.

That said, it is way more versatile than the Realist in that it has a number things you can do to it to subtly change the sound including adding or decreasing the weight of the pickup with removable weights and/or adjusting the pressure on the piezo. And more drastically by attaching it to different parts of the bridge. None of these options, obviously, are available with the Realist. Plus you can simply remove it when you want to play without an amp and you don't have ANYTHING attached to or underneath your bridge which, in my mind, is a HUGE plus. For all of those reasons, I think it is a vastly superior pickup to the Realist. In my opinion, it is worth the extra bucks. Plus you only need one pickup regardless of how many basses you have so the effective unit cost of the pickup essentially goes down with additional basses.

It should also be noted the Bob Gollihur's experience on his bass was a little different than mine so go back and re-read his posts for another view.

All that said, it doesn't sound that great (just like the Realist) on my main bass so it is relegated to my back up and travel basses neither of which I play very often. It sounds great on those basses (the Realist worked fine on those too). I'll probably use the travel bass in June when I play outdoors so I probably won't have a chance to put the SoundClip through it's paces under gig conditions until then.

mark
 
#43
calivox said:
... it has a number things you can do to it to subtly change the sound including adding or decreasing the weight of the pickup with removable weights and/or adjusting the pressure on the piezo. And more drastically by attaching it to different parts of the bridge. None of these options, obviously, are available with the Realist...
Click to expand...

Mark and Bob, thanks.

not having tried it yet, i would assume there are differences from bass to bass, as well as differences from one spot to another on the same bass. this opens up a whole lot of possibilities that the Realist just cannot offer, and so it is a huge improvement. you can put it anywhere on the bridge it can clamp onto, but i guess the standard position is at the bridge foot.

but how do these adjustments work? what changes in the sound do you get by adding pressure? and what changes do you hear when adding weight? is there any additional information on that?
 
#44
William Hoffman said:
Mark and Bob, thanks.

not having tried it yet, i would assume there are differences from bass to bass, as well as differences from one spot to another on the same bass. this opens up a whole lot of possibilities that the Realist just cannot offer, and so it is a huge improvement. you can put it anywhere on the bridge it can clamp onto, but i guess the standard position is at the bridge foot.

but how do these adjustments work? what changes in the sound do you get by adding pressure? and what changes do you hear when adding weight? is there any additional information on that?
Click to expand...

On my basses, adding weight made the sound more focused. Less weight, the sound got more bloomy and puffy. Within a certain range, changing the pressure did the same thing.

mark
 
#45
Hey Guys,

We're glad to see that you guys are really putting the SoundClip through its paces. We here have had the chance to show the newest Realist to a lot of different players and have had some really astounding results.

The rule seems to be that you have to experiment if you want to really find your "sweet spot," but if you just need to clip and go, the place just above the adjuster on the "E"-foot, with the clamp moderately tightened (just enough so that the pick-up doesn't rotate) seems to be the closest to a sure bet for a very usable sound. As people experiment more, we'll have better idea of how it works on basses "in general," but for now we like this spot for the starting place.

And, like has been mentioned in this thread, if you play around with the weights and the location, as bass-players are sure to do, really great results can be found. Once you've got your spot, then you can return there again and again.

Thanks again for giving your opinions a voice here. Hearing from you directly is also very helpful, so if you'd like to have specific questions answered, please give me a call at 212-274-1322 x224 or email me at [email protected]. I almost like talking about this stuff too much.

All the best,

Sam

Sam Finlay
David Gage String Instruments, NYC.
 
#46
I got a chance to play around with the sound clip yesterday while at A440 Violin Shop. They hadn't tried it out yet, so were enthusiastic to put it through its paces. They have an old bass, purportedly from the Villaume Shop, very resonant instrument, and we chose to try it on that first. Yes, it does have the characteristics of the Realist, but with a little more midrange and pizz attack pop, which I think is a good thing. The G string amplified the best on this bass. When we took off weight, the wolfs came out. I felt that the volume between strings varied considerably, but when turning off the PU and listened closely to the bass acoustically, same volume differences, so the PU caught them entirely. We moved the PU around a bit and found it worked best above the E adjuster.

Next, tried it on another, more even sounding, bass. Better results across the strings, but did notice a gradual volume decrease from G to E. The G string was killer with gradual decline to E. This bass was equipped with a Realist, so we A/B'd them. Very close and they both sounded good on this bass. The realist had a bit more "body" sound.

Next, took it to my gig and played with it on my bass all over the bridge, weights on and off and managed to make these changes between tunes! Pretty much the same results as above. I did have trouble though finding a pizz sound I liked with the trio, and gave up after the first set. Arco was really excellent, as with the Realist. Either are worth having just for that purpose, I think. The volume control really comes in handy, too.

I'm going to play around with it for few more days and will post if I have anything to add.
 
#47
Ok, played with it at home through a 10" powered monitor. Sounds totally different than what I was getting last night through a WM12. More hifi, clear with string and finger noise, which is what I missed with the Realist. On my other bass, almost wing pickup sounding but with a sweeter arco than with an Underwood, for example. Through this little monitor, pretty even across the strings, too. Even better when I ran a parametric. Both my basses sound good in my living room.

I hooked it up to my student's Shen SB80 and it sang.

I'm impressed. The right amp is very important. Unfortunately, my little monitor while sounding nice at home, wouldn't cut it in a real world gig situation. This is an easy PU to try before you buy, which is a good thing.
 
#48
Ron Carter is in town this weekend and using one of these on a local bass. I caught his show at the club last night and went to a clinic that he gave today at the UW in med/small auditorium.

I DID NOT ask him about it, because I didn't want that to be the one thing I talked to Ron Carter about, but someone else did. He said he consulted or advised (I don't remember what word he used and hope I'm not mischaraterising) with David Gage on it's development and was very happy with it. Touted as some of you have, how useful for a traveling bassist it is to be able to take a pickup with you and easily fit it on and off of whatever bass you use. I noticed when he unpacked the bass today that it wasn't mounted and meant to watch him do it, but I blinked and it was done.

So, my impressions: First of all, I am really impressed with the mounting of this. I really love that there is no wiring to it. The pickup unit has a 1/4 jack on the body and you just plug your cable into it. Nothing on your tailpiece or stuck in your afterlengths. That's something that has been bugging me for a while with pickups. I've moved the jack around and just don't like it anywhere. I love that when you're not amplifying, it's not on the bass.

Sonic impressions. At the club, I didn't really like the sound, but I thought the club's sound was off. I couldn't hear the piano and the guitar was overpowering at times. (Great trio, great show, I'm only talking about sound). Mr. Carter had, what I'm sure was backline, a GK RB400 head into a SWR 4x10 cabinet with some type of tweeter. No pre-amp. It sounded like I would expect it to sound and I couldn't tell what role the pickup was playing in the sound.

In the clinic today, he was playing solo through an MB150 on a stool and it sounded quite nice. Kind of Full Circle like. Definitely clear, but not bridge wing like. Encouraging.

Can't really tell too much more than that. I love the design. If it works, I may have to go that way at some point.

I'm of the mind that all pickups suck as do most strings, but we need them, so I want one that does what I need it to, is reliable and doesn't get in my way when I'm not using it. I'll be watching and waiting.
 
#49
I tried one today at the Bass Cellar. Very simple to install, and it has a volume knob! But it also seems crazily heavy for an object that one would purposefully stick on one's bridge.

I didn't know the basses we were trying it on, so I won't comment on the sound quality. We did put it on one which also had a Realist, and we A/B'ed them; the Realist sounded dark and lacking in high-frequency content (as we know, and which appeals to some of us and not to others), while in comparison the new one had lots of that bridge/finger noise like a BP100. It was certainly more focused than the Realist on that particular bass.
 
#51
TroyK said:
That's not what I was wanting to read.
Click to expand...

I don't mean to say that it sounded like a BP100--God forbid--just that it picked up all of the slightest touches to the bridge in the same kind of fashion. I think Eric already mentioned appreciating that aspect of the Sound Clip; for many people, the Realist is too far on the dark end of the street. (Not for me.)

I shouldn't even be posting here. We were not able to dial in a good or even, to my ears, usable sound, but it was clear that user error was rampant! (I remember the same thing happening with the Upton pickup--it took me a few weeks and a lot of fiddling to get from "horrible" to "pretty great, actually.") I'd like to spend more time with the Sound Clip, because the idea of such an easily detachable/mountable pickup, with no jack cables dangling around and a simple method of tone alteration, is very appealing.
 
#52
Jeremy Allen said:
... the idea of such an easily detachable/mountable pickup, with no jack cables dangling around and a simple method of tone alteration, is very appealing.
Click to expand...

This is what appeals to me. More and more, I just don't want that stuff on my bass. I'm not looking for magic sound, just usable and not strident.

I liked the Realist fine, used it for 3 or 4 years. Been using a Full Circle for about the same and think I like it a little better sonically, but it's negligible. Maybe I wouldn't feel that way if I tried them in the other order, I don't know. I've never met a bridge wing pickup that I liked and I haven't wanted to need other devices between my bass and amp to get things to sound okay.

It will be interesting to see as these get thoroughly tested out, which sonic camp they tend to get bucketed into.
 
#53
Eric H. was kind enough to bring one over to try. Didn't sound so good on my Golia. For my taste, too many nasty resonances and too low of a feedback threshold. That being said, it could be improper contact with the bridge----which is the cause of many piezos sounding weird. I just came up with an improvement for mounting the Full Circle. Even with the Full Circle, if the contact area is off the pickup will sound like crap. So my judgement on the new Gage is held until I can get ahold of one and putz around with it some more. On my bass, as Eric could attest, the FC sounded WAY better, but I did some serious messing around with the FC. The new Gage has a pretty large contact area, and if only contacting in one spot can open the door to resonances and feedback.
 
#54
Mike Arnopol said:
Eric H. was kind enough to bring one over to try. Didn't sound so good on my Golia. For my taste, too many nasty resonances and too low of a feedback threshold. That being said, it could be improper contact with the bridge----which is the cause of many piezos sounding weird. I just came up with an improvement for mounting the Full Circle. Even with the Full Circle, if the contact area is off the pickup will sound like crap. So my judgement on the new Gage is held until I can get ahold of one and putz around with it some more. On my bass, as Eric could attest, the FC sounded WAY better, but I did some serious messing around with the FC. The new Gage has a pretty large contact area, and if only contacting in one spot can open the door to resonances and feedback.
Click to expand...

That's the problem I have with it with my '28 Juzek. I didn't have that problem with my '74 Juzek nor my '06 Kolstein Travel bass. I spent a good hour or so with the '28 and I couldn't find a spot that sounded good. The '74 and Kolstein sounded great immediately and without any effort. Like any other pickup, it seems to be bass dependent.


mark
 
#55
My point is that it is often times not bass dependent, but pickup installation dependent. Take the FC---supposed to just replace the adjuster---put it on and go. That's definately not the case.If there is a slight angle so that the FC doesn't make solid contact all the way around, or if your bridge is tipped forward or backward---- sound will be compromised. The feeling that I got when trying the new Gage was that it wasn't making proper contact with the bridge face. The resonances and low feedback threshold are consistent with this assumption.
 
#56
I had thought of that but don't think that is the case with my bass. I worked on the installation of the SoundClip for a solid hour trying different positions, pressure and weight. Nothing I tried made it useable. I have the same trouble with the Realist as well. I think my bridge has certain low-amplitude resonances that aren't apparent acoustically because they die out too quickly but are preferentially amplified and emphasized with both the Realist and the SoundClip.

Oddly, the BP-100 sounds great on this bass-fat, warm and very feedback resistant. On the other hand, my other basses work great with both the SoundClip and the Realist with minimal or no setup but don't work at all with the BP-100 (they get the traditional fingernails on the blackboard sound with the BP-100) and I've spent days working on the the BP-100 setup with those basses with no luck at all.

mark
 
#57
Mike Arnopol said:
My point is that it is often times not bass dependent, but pickup installation dependent. Take the FC---supposed to just replace the adjuster---put it on and go. That's definately not the case.If there is a slight angle so that the FC doesn't make solid contact all the way around, or if your bridge is tipped forward or backward---- sound will be compromised. The feeling that I got when trying the new Gage was that it wasn't making proper contact with the bridge face. The resonances and low feedback threshold are consistent with this assumption.
Click to expand...

With every pickup I've ever owned, there were modifications that were necessary, and it they were moved out of the sweet spot the tone, and even sometimes the volume changed. The Underwood had to have shims and it sounded pretty nice, until the pickup moved out of place a little, and things changed for the worse. The BP-100 just never sounded that good on my bass, way to nasal. The Realist has been the best as long as you realize there is a "shelf life" for that pickup on some basses, mine for instance. Although I liked the sound of the Revolution Solo it had a distinctive hum, so I put it away. I've loved any mic that I've ever used on the bass, the Crown GLM, ATM 350, AMT SP25b, and DPA 4099These Mics blended with the Realist work for my particular bass and amp.
 
#58
Arnopol inspired me. In what can only be called eating crow, I messed around with the SoundClip on the '28 again and found a sweet spot. It still isn't as good the as BP-100 on this bass but it seems pretty useable. I don't have a gig until Wednesday this week but I plan on trying it out on the job then.

mark
 
#59
I was at Ron Carter's workshop in Seattle on Fri., too, and remembered being fairly impressed with the sound he was getting, given the circumstances (not his bass, not his amp, etc.). Definitely liked the sound enough to give the pickup a try. My main bass switches between orchestral & jazz playing, so I'm very interested in a quick dismantle of the pickup when I'm playing acoustically. Think I'm going to pull the trigger on it, so I'll report back when I have it in hand and have gotten to run it through its paces a bit!

Ethan
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back