Double Bass Gaiatone Fingerboards

[Sean Peters]

I took my 1938 American Standard to Robbie McIntosh today for some repair and setup work. A fingerboard dressing is one of the issues, and he remarked on how thin the original board is. I want to keep this bass long term, so a replacement fingerboard will be necessary down the road. One of the options he has is the new material GaiaTone. I'm intrigued, and was wondering if anyone could share their experiences and impressions?

I prefer using gut sets with wound lower strings, which tend to rut up fingerboards more quickly than smooth metal strings, IME. Robbie mentioned that it is stronger and more resilient than ebony, so this seems like a positive to me. A possible negative could be that special tools are required to work with it, and luthiers a little closer to me might not be equipped. But if it's as resilient as they say, after the initial set up and fine tuning, perhaps not much more maintenance will be required?

I've got some time to ponder, and I'd love to hear from those with some hands-on experience with GaiaTone!

 

[Don Hergert]

Sean, just a question -- The Gaiatone Fingerboard website speaks of their fingerboards being setup with scoop from the factory. Is that scoop set for thick relatively low tension gut strings, or will your luthier be setting that up for you? As you probably are well aware, fingerboard dressing for gut strings can be very different than for high tension steel strings.

 

[JBarz]

I can’t find anything that says what they’re actually made of … ?

 

[T_Bone_TL]

Odds are excellent that it's yet another phenolic (thermoset-resin - basically bakelite) composite (as we've seen a variety of in the BG fretboard side - some far too plastic-y, some close to ebony but currently out of production), but if they won't admit that or what it's based on one won't know.

Common options are paper-based phenloics, wood based phenolics and glass or carbon fiber based phenolics. One hopes for a wood-based solution for this use; the better options in BG fingerboard land were pretty much aligned maple or similar splinters saturated with resin and compressed to give a result resembling ebony quite well, and working like it. Several of the other options work and smell too much like plastic, and are too brittle.

Here's a long BG side thread, but be warned, the product it's primarily about seems to be out of production now, at least in large sizes.
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/rocklite-the-latest-synthetic-ebony-for-fingerboards.1311057/

 

[Sean Peters]

This video will explain some of your questions!

Don, I will be reaching out to Joey to ask if he would recommend anything different from the specs he has provided, for those of us with more old school preferences. I'll keep you posted!

 

[Don Hergert]

Interesting video... Sounds like Gaiatone is using the paper-based composite as @T_Bone_TL suggested.

My big question is whether the material is a laminate, as some synthetic guitar fingerboards are, or if it's a consistent material all the way through. If it's a laminate, that means a future fingerboard dressing, for example if someone was switching to a different type of strings, might potentially break through layers with less than optimal results. If the Gaiatone material is not layered and is consistent all the way through, that would be ideal.

I see that question as fundamental, as whatever the fingerboard is made of, it may need serious dressing sometime in its useful life.

From a tone standpoint, it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is a noticeable difference -- fingerboards are a significant part of any stringed instrument and the material they are made of has a documented history of making a difference in tone. I can't site any Gaiatone experience, but I have had experience with dreadnought style acoustic guitars that have Micarta (also a paper-based composite) fretted fingerboards and bridges, and they consistently have excellent tone qualities compared to similar guitars with ebony fretted fingerboards and bridges.

Like Gaiatone, Micarta is also harder than ebony, which probably has something to do with its tone quality. FWIW, Micarta is a laminate. In its use on guitar fretted fingerboards and bridges, it is not prone to needing to be re-worked.

 

[LaFaro01]

Elinore Morris seems to have a lot and good experience with alternative materials...

 

[evanrunyon]

Barring mishap or mischief, it’s unlikely any composite fingerboards will be needing a dressing or planing anytime soon. If you like the way it looks and feels it’s a great option.

Also, I feel it’s worth noting that I use a wound gut IV string about half the time, and I’ve just this last summer needed a fingerboard dressing for the first time on my bass (with traditional ebony board). And that’s with fifteen years of daily professional use—literally tens of thousands of hours of play. Even regular ol’ wood is pretty darn hard.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

Right - missed one. Micarta is a canvas or linen (or generically fabric, and those are two of them) based phenolic composite. A good linen one is a joy to work with.

 

[dperrott]

I played the gaitone and sonowood (think that’s it), went to the discussion about them at the isb in Michigan. It seems like an interesting product. When I played the gaitone bass I would have never known it wasn’t ebony. I was thinking of trying it on a bass I have. Yes it’s harder to work with. I think they are making a carbide plane blade to help planing it. You can use normal tools just need to sharpen more. The reason I chose not to is I can still get really good German ebony boards and they are way cheaper then the synthetic. Yes you could get the non ebony board, it will be harder, more expensive and more difficult to dress when needed. The ebony will be cheaper, softer but easier to dress.

 

[geoffbassist]

I've now tried a couple of basses with Gaiatone and both were great. I don't think you would spot they are not ebony unless you were specifically looking. Even then, it's possible you wouldn't be able to tell it apart from ebony. Plus, the standard of ebony has dropped in the last 10 years and it's getting harder to source. I would certainly consider it if I was getting a new bass orfingerboard and had the option.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I obtained several fingerboards made from a composite of ebony veneers and phenolic resin and would recommend anything like them. I also got a jig and lifetime supply of the material to make more down the road.
Pros: Very dense and stiff. There will be very little wear and the neck to which one is on will not warp or bow.
Cons: Hide glue is not an option so removal is a problem. Titebond works well so if removal down the road is desired, glue a sacrificial shim with hide glue and satisfy the Luthier gods.
Workability is limited to rasps and sandpaper. It eats the edge on a plane in one or two passes. However, it can be wet sanded to a high polish and will stay that way.

I’ve not worked with other options but preserving good ebony and eliminating the dregs that end up on many basses is a good thing.

 

[james condino]

I can purchase torrefied guitar fingerboards for the same price (or less) as a traditional ebony fingerboard; why would anyone think that selling fake ebony bass fingerboards for more than real ebony fingerboards was ever going to be a functional business model? That is the same failed logic as electric cars costing more to charge than filling up an old pickup truck with gasoline.

Keep it simple: sell me torrefied domestic boards for a fair price. I can do that for all of my smaller instruments, but not for double bass. On the same conversation, sell me mildly torrefied neck blanks and tops and backs! I've been shopping for a secondhand pizza shop oven to modify for my workshop so I can do that.

 

[LouisF]

What is the feeling on these: Arcotech CarboCore Upright Bass Fingerboards

 

[bassmanbrent]

why would anyone think that selling fake ebony bass fingerboards for more than real ebony fingerboards was ever going to be a functional business model?

I'm not saying I agree, but I think there are two things...

1. A lot of luthiers seem to be saying that we will soon run out of ebony so good boards will simply not be available at some point down the road.
2. The Gaiatone fingerboards come 'pre-dressed' based on specs from Joey Naeger so the supplier is saying that there is significantly less labour to dress them than ebony boards, which should save the bass owner money.

Again, I am not qualified to have an opinion here, just passing on info from watching the vids.

 

[geoffbassist]

I can purchase torrefied guitar fingerboards for the same price (or less) as a traditional ebony fingerboard; why would anyone think that selling fake ebony bass fingerboards for more than real ebony fingerboards was ever going to be a functional business model? That is the same failed logic as electric cars costing more to charge than filling up an old pickup truck with gasoline.

One point that was made to me was that there has been a marked decline in the quality of available ebony over the last decade. Apparently, the top-grade woods available now are the equivalent of a much lesser grade from only a few years ago, and the declining ebony supply is impacting double bass hardest due to the size.

There's also the issue of travelling overseas with rare wood, which seems to be becoming more of an issue.

I'm not a luthier, so I don't have first-hand experience of the decline in ebony supplies, but I guess this is the start of the journey away from ebony, and the case for an alternative will get stronger in time.

 

[Sean Peters]

Thanks everyone for weighing in, and especially Geoff, for your videos on this subject! I'll let you know what I decide, maybe I'll post some 'after' pics here. Whichever material I choose, it will be harder than the original rosewood fingerboard, so less dressing in my future either way!

 

[james condino]

There's also the issue of travelling overseas with rare wood, which seems to be becoming more of an issue.

This is a constantly used false argument.

If we are being honest, maybe 2% of the entire population here at talkbass has actually traveled overseas with a double bass. I've lived and traveled in over 45 different countries and have never brought an bass, but I've done it with smaller instruments dozens of times. I also ship them overseas regularly as part of sales transactions. For the rare occasions that it does happen, you can make different compromises.

Sean: I'm curious what you are doing that causes so much wear on a rosewood fingerboard? I have several basses equipped with them and even if I'm slapping triplets like a madman every night, I can go approx. 18 months between light dressings with no issues.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Just a note that I got a masterful setup on an ebony board 20 years ago, and have played the snot out of it for the past 20 years without even so much as a single dressing required. However good these new boards may be, I have never had a problem with a well dressed ebony board.

 

[Martin Beer]

This is a constantly used false argument.

If we are being honest, maybe 2% of the entire population here at talkbass has actually traveled overseas with a double bass. I've lived and traveled in over 45 different countries and have never brought an bass, but I've done it with smaller instruments dozens of times. I also ship them overseas regularly as part of sales transactions. For the rare occasions that it does happen, you can make different compromises.

Sean: I'm curious what you are doing that causes so much wear on a rosewood fingerboard? I have several basses equipped with them and even if I'm slapping triplets like a madman every night, I can go approx. 18 months between light dressings with no issues.

Outside of major orchestras (who I presume have employees who are on top of the paperwork), it seems like most international touring bassists I've seen in the UK are using hired or loaner basses, and maybe one or two using a Czech-Ease type instrument.