Reunited with an old friend.......the 400RB
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Looking at the new Fusion combos I noticed that they are significantly lighter than the corresponding speaker configurations in the Neo cabinet series. I.e. the Fusion 212 combo is ~9 lbs less than the Neo 212 cab. Is it construction? wood choice? New neodym speakers? May there be lighter Neo cabs in the future?
Today, I was doing an amp “head to head” between my ‘68 Traynor YBA-1A and my 700RB-II.
The GK easily has more clean headroom, but there was something cool and complex going on in the Traynor’s mids - and I tried to match it by using the mid EQs, then the Contour, but I just couldn’t get there.
I like mids in my tone, so I typically don’t use the Contour circuit.
But today, on a whim, I tried turning the Contour all the way up (for a big mid scoop) and then maxing both mid controls to compensate.
The resulting tone was big, raw, and nasty sounding - and like a bigger version of the Traynor’s tone.
Does anyone use their RB-Series amp like this?!?!
It seemed pointless - scoop the mids out only to boost them back in-but the results were far cooler than I’d have expected.
I’ll try it tonight at rehearsal and see if that tone fits in a band mix...
The GK easily has more clean headroom, but there was something cool and complex going on in the Traynor’s mids - and I tried to match it by using the mid EQs, then the Contour, but I just couldn’t get there.
I like mids in my tone, so I typically don’t use the Contour circuit.
But today, on a whim, I tried turning the Contour all the way up (for a big mid scoop) and then maxing both mid controls to compensate.
The resulting tone was big, raw, and nasty sounding - and like a bigger version of the Traynor’s tone.
Does anyone use their RB-Series amp like this?!?!
It seemed pointless - scoop the mids out only to boost them back in-but the results were far cooler than I’d have expected.
I’ll try it tonight at rehearsal and see if that tone fits in a band mix...
What's getting put back in EQ wise is different than what's being taken out, so I think it's just creating some EQ dips between the contour ends and the mid frequencies. Even if you were taking away then putting back, this can still effect the tone.
This makes me think of push/pull eq'ing. Basically, take two identical EQ stages (preferably analog) in series with one another and boost or cut one and do the equal but opposite setting on the next. This will leave the saturation and phasing artifacts in the output signal without necessarily having a large EQ hump. Also, some EQs widths differ between adding and cutting.
Fun stuff! I hope it sounds killer for you!
For those who are using the Legacy heads, how are you finding them compared to the MB? This is my current rig. I've loved every GK amp I've played through. They always have "it" for me. My first love in bass amp sound was an 800RB through an Ampeg cab.
Thanks.
Thanks.
OK - so this worked really well!
I had to drop my Boost level since I was sending a hotter signal to the power amp, and I ended up with Lo Mids around 3 o’clock, but the end result sat in the mix VERY nicely.
Good point! Along with scooping the mids, the Contour boosts bass and treble - so even if I’ve compensated for the mid cut, the overall change would still have more lows and highs...
Starting to get curious enough maybe I'll graph both options later today per your recipes.
See what's really going on.
Feel like I should know this, but double-checking. To defeat the tweeter on a Neo cab, you can use a standard cable with the crossover set to bi-amp, or a 4 pole Speakon set to bi-amp with a head that doesn’t have the bi-amp feature, right? But is there a way to defeat the tweeter with the 700RB-II and a 4 pole Speakon? Is it as simple as turning the tweeter control all the way down on the amp?
Also, what’s the volume difference between a Neo 112 or 212? Really wanting a modular stack, but the 112s are about the same price as a 212. And what’s the difference between the 112ii and original 112?
Also, what’s the volume difference between a Neo 112 or 212? Really wanting a modular stack, but the 112s are about the same price as a 212. And what’s the difference between the 112ii and original 112?
Yup.
Are they both 8ohm cabs? If so expect about +3dB from coupling from the 212 over the 112.
If the 212 is 4ohm, you might get closer to +6dB depending on the amp.
If you're talking 2 8ohm 112s vs a 4ohm 212 it should be a wash.
Happy to be corrected.
Got around to taking a look under the hood for this, and there are some interesting results I think if you're interested.
As a start, this is the GK curve that we all know and love - knobs at noon, no presence, no contour, in 4-string mode:
Maxing contour, with EQ nooned does this:
This is where it gets interesting, because while it compensates a little, it still really doesn't offset the huge scoop much. More than anything it raises the level a ton. See below for contour maxed, with both mids maxed as well (teal line vs the previous):
Lastly, I believe you said you dialed back low-mids down to 3:00, which results in a little bit more of a scoop, but not a ton of change (green line)
Moral of the story? Don't fear the scoop. Use what sounds good to you in your mixes regardless of what others on the internet say.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but +3dB is “double” the volume, right? So in my quest for a quieter practice rig, I should get the 112. Even if it’s 80% of the price of a 212. Trying to do this affordably, and that’s been a challenge! May end up trading a cab or something to get a smaller one.
3dB is the doubling of acoustic energy, but if you're after a quieter practice rig... volume knobs still do a great job.
This is a weird question though, usually if somebody is comparing a 112 and a 212, and they're about the same price, they're looking for the one that can get louder!
What kind of practicing are we talking here? I tried using a single NEO 112 for a rehearsal once, and it was like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
This is a weird question though, usually if somebody is comparing a 112 and a 212, and they're about the same price, they're looking for the one that can get louder!
What kind of practicing are we talking here? I tried using a single NEO 112 for a rehearsal once, and it was like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
Well, my current rigs are either a Neo 410 or Backline 112. The Backline doesn’t handle the low B well, and the 410s require my volume knobs to be so low that it’s in that space where the tiniest fraction of a turn goes from inaudible to too loud. My aim is to get a single driver cab that can reproduce a low B, take Distortion well (I play all sorts of heavy stuff with fuzz, era, etc.) and that can also make my rig more usable at low volume. I figure going from 4 to 1 drivers is a good start, but I don’t know the science of this well, so am asking for help before dropping cash. Ideally, I’d like this cab to eventually have a matching cab to do larger shows with. The big idea is to get enough volume to hear myself and not wake the kid or annoy the wife. I have a headphone rig, but it’s just not the same.
I realize this is a tall order, and that’s why I’m looking a all sorts of options.
