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GB Shuttle 6.0 questions

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Rodger Bryan, Oct 6, 2009.


  1. Rodger Bryan

    Rodger Bryan Supporting Member

    Jun 17, 2006
    Connecticut
    I'm going to be putting different mini/micro heads to the test and I wanted to get some clarification about the Shuttle 6.0 and its perceived low-end output. Some describe it as tight, some say thin and some say full. Since our preferences and perceptions are all over the map (I'm thankful for that), I wanted to try to bring some of the comments into focus:

    For example, those who hear that the 6.0 puts out less low end than another head when set flat, are you referring to the transient thump at the attack, the body of the sustained note or both? Could it be that some people are missing the WHOMP because it is being filtered out by the HPF?

    I tried to find some additional information about the HPF at the front end of the shuttle's signal chain- the owner's manual refers to it as a high-order active filter, but doesn't mention the slope or corner frequency. I'm guessing that this is done to protect smaller drivers from over-excursion, but I'm not sure. Does anyone here know how the HPF is tuned in this amp. Thanks a bunch-
    R
     
  2. MIJ-VI

    MIJ-VI Banned Supporting Member

    Jan 12, 2009
    Hi Rodger.

    First off, thank you for your researched and refreshingly literate post. :)

    Secondly, all bass heads sound their best when played through the cabs they are voiced to work well with.

    As for the Shuttle 6 having a HPF? This is news to me, though I don't doubt it since designing a bass head + cab combination which yields a deep yet clear bottom must involve some voicing of the amp's low end.
     
  3. The Shuttle sounds quite bright, and thin in an absolute sense in the deep low end when turned on and set flat. This is due to the general Genz voicing, which has always been, IMO, on the 'tight and bite' end of the continuum, and also (as confirmed by the Genz guys in the recent Shuttle 9 thread) a 'higher than usual' roll-off of the deep low end than other amps due to the fact that these amps were designed to be used with the very small Shuttle cabs, which aren't capable of pumping out deep low end anyway.

    The good news is, with some EQ, the 6.0 can be made to fill out down low. However, I am one who found the bass control voiced more to the upper bass punch side (not necesarilly a bad thing), and the 'all or nothing' deep bass boost button WAY too much with a large, full range cab.

    I have not played the Shuttle 9 yet, but when I tried the Max 12, I was pleasantly surprised by the more full, natural low end right out of the box, and it has since been confirmed that the Max heads and the Shuttle 9 have a more typical 'HPF setting' compared to amps like the Markbass heads, for example, that are very fat and deep and even right out of the box.

    I found the Shuttle 6.0 to sound very nice through some of the Genz cabs, and also my very tightly voiced Bergantino AE410. I did not like it at as much through deeper, fuller voiced cabs. I have a feeling the 9.0 would be a bit more to my liking, with the additional power and slightly more open low end combined to make it more 'full range even'.

    IME, although it is nice to get technical verification for something I and others have heard in the many GTG's etc. with the 6.0 versus other micro's.

    Nice head, but not for me personally. The Max 6 and 9 sound glorious though!
     
  4. AMJBASS

    AMJBASS Supporting Member

    Jan 8, 2002
    Ontario, Canada
    I owned a 3.0 not too long ago. I'm not sure how similar the 2 amps are(of course the 6.0 has a tube preamp), but I did notice that it was a very bright amp. It worked well with Double bass since it isn't extremely deep sounding(which I guess is due to the HPF). What cabinets are you planning on using?
     
  5. hasbeen

    hasbeen Commercial User

    Sep 23, 2004
    Vice President, KMC Music. Warwick U.S. distribution, Ampeg distribution
    FWIW, the "6.0 being voiced for our smaller cabs" is being quite over played.

    It was mentioned in a very casual passing to Ed Friedland when he was doing his reviews that we believe getting rid of some of the low end rumble that some amps produce, can benefit all cabs, especially those that are smaller.

    This has evolved into our Shuttles being designed for our cabs. As the person in charge of what we build and for whom, if I adopted that business model, I'd get fired. :oops: We just don't have enough cabs in the market place to make this a sustainable marketing stance.

    I've gigged with all of our main competitors products and have heard what happens to the low end in the mix. And how the amp can lose it's dynamics and really squish. Some of our competitors have revoiced their offerings because of this very issue.

    Our 6.0, as all of our designs, are tested through MANY cabinets on the market....many, many. So many, that my wife begs me to get rid of some so we can have a rec room for the kids.

    BTW, we go through great lengths to keep the "troublesome" low frequencies out of all of our designs....GBE series, Neo Pak, Shuttle etc. This has a lot less to do with the constraints of our/any cab and a lot more to do with how we feel a bass amp sits in the mix.

    Side note: Interesting perception of low end. I've ab'd with our amp with a competitors while a player was blind folded. The commented our's had less low end. When I adjusted the mids on our amp, there by letting the player hear more separation on the lows, the commented "ah...there it is".
     
  6. I use the 6.0 with the 210 it came with plus a Neox 112, or just with the Neox 112. It is true that, set flat, it might be brighter than some people want. However, that is easily modified, most easily by using the preset low end boost button. With that button in, no problem on the low end. Or, you can adjust it yourself as the 4 band EQ is very versatile. If you use the low end boost and also boost the low mid EQ, you can get all the low end you can handle.

    I have a MB II as well and have A/B'd them. You can get all the low end from the 6.0 that you get from the MB. It's just a question of how you get there and what subtle variations you like. I always gig with the 6.0 as there is no more reliable and versatile head (in the price range), plus it has the foot switch with mute and the low end boost buttons, which I find very handy (or footy) for gigs.
     
  7. mongo2

    mongo2

    Feb 17, 2008
    Da Shaw
    That's precisely what I've found to be true.
     
  8. hasbeen

    hasbeen Commercial User

    Sep 23, 2004
    Vice President, KMC Music. Warwick U.S. distribution, Ampeg distribution
    ooh.....now that I see my statement quoted, I see my typos. :bag:

    That's what I get for blogging when my wife is yelling at me about our Saturday plans. :eyebrow:
     
  9. mongo2

    mongo2

    Feb 17, 2008
    Da Shaw
    Fixed it for ya in my quote. ;)
     
  10. hasbeen

    hasbeen Commercial User

    Sep 23, 2004
    Vice President, KMC Music. Warwick U.S. distribution, Ampeg distribution
    gracias.
     
  11. chiplexic

    chiplexic

    Apr 21, 2004
    Massachusetts
    Hasbeen, Can you comment on why some have stated that the Max amps have more low end set flat. Have the eq points been designed differently than the Shuttle 6.0 ?
     
  12. hasbeen

    hasbeen Commercial User

    Sep 23, 2004
    Vice President, KMC Music. Warwick U.S. distribution, Ampeg distribution

    Yes, they have....and this has been brought into the 9.0
     
  13. kraigo

    kraigo

    Jun 21, 2007
    Minneapolis, MN
    +1, great post. Except that I don't have the foot switch. I'm close enough to the amp that I use the front panel switch. I've heard tell of, but never personally noticed a lack of low end. When I read the reviews I took Roger's (HasBeen) settings to heart: I boost a bit of the mids (freq set at 9:00 or 10:00, possibly lower, boost to about 1:00), find the blend of the FET and tube I like and play.

    My NeoX 212T is in constant danger of not coming back home because everyone who plays through it loves it. The Shuttle 6.0 and that cab make for the happiest I've ever been with a bass rig.

    Sorry to not address your question more directly. I don't notice the 6.0 as being all that shy in the low end and like Roger says, once you get it into a mix, low end can cause trouble for both the bassist trying to hear himself and the general mix getting washed out with low end. I trust Kjung's opinions, but I haven't been bothered by the same things he has.

    I bought the Shuttle because the price was great, the size and weight were perfect for me, the sound was well regarded (I couldn't try it before I bought it and I haven't been disappointed) and because Genz has a great reputation for customer support.

    I get GAS for the new 9.0, but honestly I don't need the extra power and the 6.0 has been good to me.

    KO
     
  14. svtb15

    svtb15 Banned

    Mar 22, 2004
    Austin,TX - McKinney,TX - NY,NY, - Nashville,TN
    I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
    I have been gigging with aggy cabs for years..they were the first 1x12 that i liked and well they are just there and im used to them... ... but im going to get some (Ubers very soon for real.)

    I found that my 6.0 is Not lacking in the lows at all.
    Infact with my cab combination and a 6.0 head at times i dont use the Global bass button at all...
    If i use my Bag Ends i will engage the Global bass.. But BE are voiced that way...

    I did a fly date yesterday (once again) ughhhh and brought my Shuttle 12.0 this time..And i wound up actually rolling back the bass knob just a little and never engaged the global bass at all.. they had an aggy 4x12 at the gig..

    I do find the 12.0 to be warmer at 12 noon.. and i suspect that the 9.0 will be very similar..

    I think the cab choice has alot to do with what folks may say about the 6.0 being bright or bass light.. So far i have not found my 6.0 to be light in the bass to the point where i am concerned about it.. It just sounds tight and controlled.. which to me is a good thing in live shows , especially with lots of open mics on stage... it can also lay down a thick pillow of lows that engulfs the stage if you want it to...
     
  15. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    The differences in the voicing between all of the amps is really quite small. It will sound dramatically different on different cabinets, which is why we do a lot of play-testing on different cabinets as well as listening to the amp's voicing in a live environment to be sure it hold up well in the context of the mix and in the PA.

    It's my opinion that EVERY amp should have a high pass filter to protect the cabinets from subsonic material that, when the amp is played loud, interferes with how the amp overloads or limits, and the muddy results. It also allows the speakers to work in their optimum bandwidth in order to increase their effective mechnaical power handling at the low end of the response spectrum. This is done with every (real) pro audio subwoofer installation in the touring world, and has been done for probably 10 years. The bass guitar industry has been behind the curve but is now catching up from whatI have seen on many of the newly released products. We have included high pass filters on all of our bass products tracking the pro audio industry more than the bass industry here because most of the technological developments (switchmode power supplies, class D amplification, DSP) are driven by the high dollar need for such advances. It's also the industry I have been involved with for 25+ years. Judging from what I see in the new bass amps, the features and technological advantages are now being embraced by the masses.

    With smaller (lower powered) amps designed to be used primarily with smaller (not just the compact models) speakers (by any manufacturer), it's wise to look at the common limitations this class of cabinets share and be sure the amplifier compliments the speaker rather than aggrivates the limitations all of these speakers share. If the speaker's -10dB response (the point where the mechanical power handling rapidly declines below the "RMS" rating and the driver's distortion curve steeply increases) is typically say 38Hz, it would be foolish IMO (and damaging to the speakers) to allow the amp to drive the speaker hard at below say 30-35Hz. It's also a wasteful use of the amplifier's power. The LF Extend function on all of our amps extends the LF point of the HPF (it's an asymetrical filter BTW) and alters the LF voicing slightly when used with a speaker that has sufficient capacity and performance to benefit from this extension. Perhaps the operation of this function-feature misunderstood?
     
  16. Rodger Bryan

    Rodger Bryan Supporting Member

    Jun 17, 2006
    Connecticut
    Thank you for the explanation.
    I use a HPF on my Clarus amp when playing through an Acme B2- it is considerably underpowered, but I manage to make it work in moderate and low volume gigs. The Shuttle 6.0 seems like it would power the B2 appropriately and could be a good match for a more "pillowy" sounding cab.

    Anyone ever tried a shuttle with a B2?
     
  17. I use a Shuttle 6.0 and a GB NeoT212 and am very happy with how it sounds and how well it cuts through with more volume than you would think,my question is if I want more bass should I just turn up the Bass on the EQ (does that not affect the HPF) or just keep using the L.F. Boost for more bass?
    I have had issues with various gear before that did not have any kind of a HPF and it drove me crazy knowing that I was over working everything not to mention the muddy sound.
     

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