GC employees unionizing...

[two fingers]

Well, HERE is what everyone needs to wrap their heads around. Wal-Mart has a function. It is NOT to provide excellent customer service. If you want that, go somewhere else (and pay higher prices). Wal-Mart's ONLY function is to provide a HUGE selection of CHEAP goods (and they do that better than anyone else). IF Wal-Mart payed higher wages, and better benefits packages, then their PRICES would HAVE to go up. And their function would cease to exist.

The same goes for GC. They are NOT here to hire people who know everything about every piece of gear in the world. They are NOT here to provide you a leather couch on which to sit and wait while well-trained highly educated minions bring you gear a wine. If you want that, get on a plane and fly to one of the high end shops that cater to that kind of customer. However, if GC starts to pay much higher wages (I'm sure the fight isn't over a dollar an hour) and much better benefits, then the PRICES of their GEAR will go up. And what will all of you "living wagers" be doing after that? I'll tell you. You'll be starting a thread that reads "Hey! I went into GC today and they tried to RIP ME OFF for FIFTY BUCKS for a set of freakin' D'Addario XL 4 strings! What the crap?!?!?!?!"

You can't have it both ways. I love Wal-Mart. Tell the employees to simply stay out of my way and I will find my OWN bread and spray paint thank you very much. Tell the snotty nosed kid at GC to BACK OFF while I play what I want. I'll bring it to you to ring up when I am done. And thanks for the cheap prices. If the prices at GC or Wal-Mart go up, I will stop shopping there and find whomever will take their place as the cheap stuff store (and someone will ALWAYS take their place).

 

[guy n. cognito]

Unless those profits can be sequestered in foreign tax havens or given out to executives in the form of equity.

Corporate entities, like almost every individual in this country, look to minimize their tax liabilities........

 

[worxforme]

Nail-Coffin

GC has always suffered from having (relatively) poorly knowledgeable and friendly sales staff. The chance to unionize, raise wages, raise benefits, etc... can greatly help turn that around. Unfortunately, I kinda think it's too late for GC, but it could help them turn things around.

Also, I have a feeling this thread might do better in the lobby. Forum rules are bit looser in those parts, so threads like this tend to be able to exist.

I agree if they have the finances however I believe they do not and this will sink them.

There is another way to do in their current financial state, but they won't.

 

[fdeck]

Corporate entities, like almost every individual in this country, look to minimize their tax liabilities........

Did I suggest otherwise?

 

[fhm555]

...Discriminating against an employee for his or her union or protected concerted activities is an unfair labor practice, though, regardless if it's done in a right-to-work state.

And like so many things down here, the workaround is for the good ole boy network to close ranks and unofficially work toward their common goal. The GOBN runs all state and local government so it really doesn't matter what should happen according to the law. What does happen is pretty much whatever the GOBN wants to happen and they are powerful enough no lawyer or mid/lower eschelon government worker who wants to work in this state will put up much of a fight against this unofficial power brokering juggernaut. We've got some idealists down here but they tend to be the rebellious offspring of a member in good standing of the GOBN and they always come around to the 'right" way of thinking once they fully realize if they want to feed at the real trough they better by god play ball.

We get occasional federal intervention, but when you consider our state and in some cases local government(s) are still fighting federal discrimination cases originally filed in the 60's, that the city of Hoover, the place where the legal challenge which resulted in the recent reversal of parts of the voting rights act originated, announced the week of the SCOTUS decision that their school system will no longer be providing busing, that the state had a draconian voter ID law ready to go in anticipation of a favorable ruling from SCOTUS on the voting rights act, that the recent state education accountability act where students from public schools that receive a "failing" grade from the state board of education are free to attend a better public (or private) school and the state will pay that school for taking that student has so far attracted 8 public schools interested in the program while 38 church sponsored private schools have applied to participate and will soon be receiving major chunks of tax money, even Ray Charles could see that in the great state of Alabama, what should be happening and what is actually happening are two entirely different things.

One last thing to consider. Of all the laws passed in the latest legislative session only 3 are not already being challenged in court. The trick here though is lawyers for both sides of the challenge are from the GOBN. They will milk the state for a few years while pretending to argue these cases in court, then the state supreme cout will rule the challenges have no real merit and all will be forgotten unless one of the cases happens to catch some national attention and wind up being pushed up the legal line.

It is a system that has thrived in this state for much much longer than I've been here to watch it work, and in fact one of my old HS classmates rose to become the chief justice of the state supreme court because he was part of the network and played the game to perfection. This guy has a daughter and would you believe it, she's working her way though the system as we speak and I'd bet a dozen doughnuts to a pint of urine she winds up on our state supreme court in the very near future.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Did I suggest otherwise?

Oh, of course not...........

 

[Immigrant]

IF Wal-Mart payed higher wages, and better benefits packages, then their PRICES would HAVE to go up.

That is a common belief held by many people about most large companies whose employees don't make much, but it's simply not true. If the Walton kids decided to give themselves paycuts and raise employee's wages it would probably even itself out. But, it's their right to do business the way they do, so it will never change.

That's where I bail before I get all socio-political, my headache worsens, and John Turner rips my arm off Cat-People style.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Just a little math:

Wal-mart has 1.4 million employees. If we assume that those employees worked an average of 20 hours a week, and Walmart gave all of those employees a $1 per hour bonus, it would cost the company $1.456 billion

According to Morningstar, 2013 compensation for the executive level at Walmart is approximately $63 million, or slightly more than 4% of the amount needed for that $1 raise.

 

[Immigrant]

I yield to your superior knowledge.

It's completely normal and moral for 6 people to have equal net worth of approx. 120 million scrubs like me.

Though I no longer frequent GC or MF, I still thank them for helping to reduce the cost of musical gear across the board for everyone. I remember music stores (here anyway) prior to GC, MF, and other Internet dealers lowering prices. Everybody charged MSRP and as a result, used gear was also relatively expensive. Good thing or not? I dunno.

I still think Bain will continue to keep GC on life support because numbers in the red column aren't always a detriment.

 

[sloasdaylight]

I haven't been inside a Guitar Center in at least 2 years, and the only reason I was in there the last time was because I had a $50 gift certificate, and didn't want it to go to waste. If their workers end up unionizing, maybe the people who still go there will get some better customer service from the floor staff, but I don't think I'll be one of them. I'm much happier giving my money to companies like Sam Ash than I am giving it to Guitar Center.

 

[Lonesomedave]

....It's completely normal and moral for 6 people to have equal net worth of approx. 120 million scrubs like me.....

uh....are we talking economics or are we engaging in moral philosophy?.....just askin'

those 120 million people would have a higher net worth if they earned it.....nobody gave the founders of WalMart anything...or for that matter, gave those 6 people anything....they have what they have because of the market.....just like the 120 million people like you have what they have because of the market....

if you (or they) want more...start your own business and make whatever you can make...just like they did....nobody's stopping you....except yourself

 

[Unrepresented]

uh....are we talking economics or are we engaging in moral philosophy?.....just askin'

those 120 million people would have a higher net worth if they earned it.....nobody gave the founders of WalMart anything...or for that matter, gave those 6 people anything....they have what they have because of the market.....just like the 120 million people like you have what they have because of the market....

if you (or they) want more...start your own business and make whatever you can make...just like they did....nobody's stopping you....except yourself

Dave,

While I entirely support meritocracy and rewarding hard work, how much harder can one man work than another? Double? Five times? Can one man or woman work ten times as hard as another?

The income inequality across the US is much higher than that.

 

[Lonesomedave]

Dave,

While I entirely support meritocracy and rewarding hard work, how much harder can one man work than another? Double? Five times? Can one man or woman work ten times as hard as another?

The income inequality across the US is much higher than that.

maybe it's not about working harder...maybe it's about working SMARTER...don't know....BUT

you're talking to the wrong person...I didn't make up the system...reality did....that is....THE MARKET.....if one person starts a business and succeeds, the market rewards him (or her)....if another chooses to go work for an hourly wage.....the market reacts accordingly

so, i really don't see what you have to gripe about....unless you gripe at all natural phenomena...

"It's not fair that i was splattered on the ground just because i jumped off a cliff...HE wasn't splattered"....
"well, HE had a parachute"....
"I don't care....its not fair"

 

[Unrepresented]

maybe it's not about working harder...maybe it's about working SMARTER...don't know....BUT

you're talking to the wrong person...I didn't make up the system...reality did....that is....THE MARKET.....if one person starts a business and succeeds, the market rewards him (or her)....if another chooses to go work for an hourly wage.....the market reacts accordingly

so, i really don't see what you have to gripe about....unless you gripe at all natural phenomena...

"It's not fair that i was splattered on the ground just because i jumped off a cliff...HE wasn't splattered"....
"well, HE had a parachute"....
"I don't care....its not fair"

But this isn't a natural phenomena, it's an entirely manmade system with rules constantly updated by men.

Further, working smarter requires intelligence and education. Capacity for intelligence is being recognized more and more as being genetic, just like gender or race. Is it fair for certain people to have a genetic predisposition that will allow them wealth thousands of times more? access to education is clearly not equal either. Should those with parents who could afford quality schools be permitted to continue to have a lopsided advantage over others?

 

[Lonesomedave]

But this isn't a natural phenomena, it's an entirely manmade system with rules constantly updated by men.

Further, working smarter requires intelligence and education. Capacity for intelligence is being recognized more and more as being genetic, just like gender or race. Is it fair for certain people to have a genetic predisposition that will allow them wealth thousands of times more? access to education is clearly not equal either. Should those with parents who could afford quality schools be permitted to continue to have a lopsided advantage over others?

i KNEW you were going to say that

and, as a matter of fact, it IS a natural phenomenon....the law of supply and demand is just as much a natural law as the law of gravity

the supply of under-educated people who work for wages is exponentially greater than the supply of people willing to take a risk, start a business, and actually do so successfully

as to the second, preposterous quote of yours....the answer is "YES"..."a thousand times YES"....those people are the ones who produce advances in technology that benefit everyone....or who produce goods and services cheaply enough that all can benefit...

to say nothing of the implications of your quote....unless God himself is willing to come down and take on the job of distributing the good things in life fairly (a job he has so far chosen not to do)....i don't trust anybody to decide what is fair...i DO trust the good ol' market

not to mention the fact that access to education has never been more equal...with the number of grants and scholarships available, the only thing holding certain people back is themselves.

 

[Immigrant]

if you (or they) want more...start your own business and make whatever you can make...just like they did....nobody's stopping you....except yourself

Thats really the rub. Everybody isn't geared towards starting their own business. I'm old, nearly in a wheelchair, and have no capital to start a business. I guess I'm a little offended by "nobody's stopping you", maybe because it's partly true, but the condescending pause between your statements leads me to think that your attitude is "if you can't get by... then croak already".

It's as if nobody remembers a time when a guy could work at a factory or a sales job and actually make enough for a family to survive. Maybe scrape by, but get by. I know. I was one of those for nearly my whole working life. Those jobs are mostly gone. The way the world turns has caused that.

Have you ever wondered why the average age of a fast food worker has jumped so high? It's like 28 now.

A lot of this borders on the P word, so I need to stop.

Power to the GC employees. I hope they succeed in getting what they're after. I was working for a company that nearly unionized but when the powers that be found out, they gave us all raises instead. Big ones, too.

 

[MatticusMania]

It's as if nobody remembers a time when a guy could work at a factory or a sales job and actually make enough for a family to survive.

Moreso, no one remembers a time when we didnt "go to work" but rather living our lives was our work.

 

[Lonesomedave]

Thats really the rub. Everybody isn't geared towards starting their own business. I'm old, nearly in a wheelchair, and have no capital to start a business. I guess I'm a little offended by "nobody's stopping you", maybe because it's partly true, but the condescending pause between your statements leads me to think that your attitude is "if you can't get by... then croak already"....

i think you are reading things into my statement that are not there.

I, myself, have never started a successful business...I , myself, have worked for wages...

as far as capital to start a business, read the stories of how people sweated and slaved, borrowed, saved...did whatever they and their families could do to start something, and it later became prosperous...are you saying those people didn't earn what they got?

as far as my "condescending" pause...well, you are just reading it there because you WANT to read it there, not because of anything i said, implied, or even thought...the idea that i want you or anyone else to "just croak" is ridiculous and borders on name calling, which is a pet peeve of mine in debates.

what i have said, and am saying, is either true or it is not....there is no need to take it personally...i certainly don't take personally the thoughts of those who disagree with me

 

[Unrepresented]

i KNEW you were going to say that

and, as a matter of fact, it IS a natural phenomenon....the law of supply and demand is just as much a natural law as the law of gravity

the supply of under-educated people who work for wages is exponentially greater than the supply of people willing to take a risk, start a business, and actually do so successfully

as to the second, preposterous quote of yours....the answer is "YES"..."a thousand times YES"....those people are the ones who produce advances in technology that benefit everyone....or who produce goods and services cheaply enough that all can benefit...

to say nothing of the implications of your quote....unless God himself is willing to come down and take on the job of distributing the good things in life fairly (a job he has so far chosen not to do)....i don't trust anybody to decide what is fair...i DO trust the good ol' market

not to mention the fact that access to education has never been more equal...with the number of grants and scholarships available, the only thing holding certain people back is themselves.

A limited amount of commodities is a naturally occurring situation. This market is not. It is no more or less "natural" than any other socially organized means of reconciling that scarcity throughout human history and prehistory.

 

[Lonesomedave]

Moreso, no one remembers a time when we didnt "go to work" but rather living our lives was our work.

back in, oh, 1 million BC or so......