Bob Lee (QSC)
In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio!
- Jul 3, 2001
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- Former Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
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GC employees unionizing...
- Thread starter chicago_mike
- Start date
Things can be run VERY differently from store to store, this is true of other companies like Best Buy. If it's a high-dollar area, you may find those guys making some decent wages.
Most of the people with serious sales talent will move on to a job that will pay better and give them more of a "grown-up" work schedule (9-5, mon-fri). The issue is that companies like this have to ask themselves what they would rather do...hire people with competent sales experience and talent, or hire a bunch of idiots/teenagers whom they can brainwash to sell using their sales "strategies" thought up by college marketing graduates who have never stepped foot in a Guitar Center before. Most often they go with the latter of the two because they are counting on losing X amount of employees or X amount of time and figure this is cutting their losses in advance. They are unwilling to make the investment into a team of competent salespeople and just pass the frustration along to the customer. Not to say that there aren't ANY, but on a large scale there isn't a reputation for great salespeople.
Everything is a natural phenomenon. Humans are made of chemicals, so our behavior is governed by the laws of chemistry at some level.
There's no meaningful concept of supply and demand for entrepreneurs. What are you trying to convey here? Your statements come across as being rather naieve about economics and business. I'm not an economist, but I've run a small business, so I know what it's like to start one and make it successful. I also hang out with a lot of business people. While individual initiative is an ingredient of entrepreneurship, it's not the only ingredient.
Sure, but technology and entrepreneurship seem more likely to advance in a society with a balance between free markets and robust public institutions. The US leads the world in high-tech start-ups thanks a history of economic and industrial infrastructure, along with institutions such as DARPA, NIH, NSF, and public research universities. From what I've read, European countries lead in non-tech entrepreneurship due to having a better social safety net that reduces the personal financial risk of starting a business. The Chinese government subsidizes start-up businesses heavily.
What good ol' market? Where? Even Adam Smith was pessimistic about achieving widespread prosperity in a "pure" market economy, and no subsequent economist has given us any reason to doubt his conclusion. Upon what do you base your faith?
This doesn't seem possible. The out of pocket cost of higher education has risen progressively for years. And merely paying for and starting college doesn't guarantee getting anything out of it.
"Towards consumers."
Consumers are not a homogenous group....they all want different things. Some want low prices, big selection, and easy return policies. Others want personalized, expert service. Some want both........
GC has chosen to cater to the former. They are catering "towards consumers", but they have selected a subset of that group to target. There's nothing inherently wrong with that strategy.....it's worked for Wal Mart for years.
The Sam Ash here is staffed by the exact same type of employees found at GC. If I eve desire a significantly reduced selection of low end, foreign made instruments sold to me by someone who begrudgingly came over from the "real guitar" section of the store, I make the trip to Ash.........
"Towards consumers."
Consumers are not a homogenous group....they all want different things. Some want low prices, big selection, and easy return policies. Others want personalized, expert service. Some want both........
GC has chosen to cater to the former. They are catering "towards consumers", but they have selected a subset of that group to target. There's nothing inherently wrong with that strategy.....it's worked for Wal Mart for years.
Again, my point was they need to begin targeting a different segment of consumers. There is nothing inherently wrong with that strategy unless it's not working for you. From the sounds of it, it isn't working for Guitar Center, which is, again, why I suggest the change.
I'm not missing your point. You're correlating GCs current financial position with their decision to retain lower-skilled employees and target the value-driven portion of the market. That position, IMHO, is a bit naive.
Not really. When price point is no longer a determining factor in patronizing Shop A over Shop B (which is the case in a lot of these bigger music chains) customer service and value provided before, during, and after the sale become much more important considerations. Obviously those aren't the only factors, but they are large ones considering their current business strategy and the strategy of their competitors. If the low cost model isn't currently working for them (which seems to be the case) then they need to do something different. That's just my suggestion as to what they should do, which lines up similarly with what I think a lot of these big companies should do given our current economic climate. Our country can't survive on this low cost/low wage model that has become popular over the past several decades.
Again, you're assuming that their staffing strategy is the cause of their financial issues. And, to be blunt, your suggestion for major corporations doesn't gel.....at all......with the success of such "low cost / low wage" over the last five years. Furthermore, I'd argue that GC provides poor customer service. While their employees are at the low end of the knowledge chain, they offer superior stock, frequent discounts, no-hassle returns, online and bricks-and-mortar buying options............
No, I'm saying their business strategy and the segments they have chosen to target, in conjunction with the strategies their competitors are using, are the cause of their financial woes. Their staffing strategy is only a facet of the overall picture, but it's the one I chose to highlight given the topic of the thread (the unionizing of workers for better wages/benefits/etc...). I have no doubts there are other issues weighing the company down, but you do build a company from the ground up.
As for the success of low cost/low wage companies have had, we should also consider talking about the employees of these companies who are helping provide these record breaking profits and executive pay raises while continuously being stuck with part time work at starvation level wages. Maybe there's a reason why some of these employees are wanting to unionize so they can get a nicer share of the pie that they've helped create. The first video I linked (with Sen. Bernie Sanders) outlines my argument quite well.
You know your stuff, LiquidMidnight. I'd agree that local NLRB folks have their heart in the right place but are constrained. Right now, I am back to working at my state labor department and we have our constraints too. Wishing I could get back to what I was doing a few years ago....making Labor and Management play nice together (without arbitrators). In the construction industry, the parties need one another. They are motivated to get things settled. In construction, unionism almost never starts with a 9(a) agreement. It's always management that makes the decision to go union. My conservative friends have a hard time getting their minds around that one. 
Labor relations, to me, is about as much fun as a guy can get paid for. Seriously.
Labor relations, to me, is about as much fun as a guy can get paid for. Seriously.
Cool! Were you an FMCS agent?
In construction, unionism almost never starts with a 9(a) agreement. It's always management that makes the decision to go union. My conservative friends have a hard time getting their minds around that one.
I remember when Dana was still good law and I was surprised to have petitions come across my desk and companies calling me up to say they were going to voluntarily recognize the union.
American labor relations is by its nature contentious and will probably never mimic the European or Japanese models (and probably can't due to how the NLRA is written), but I've often seen quite the opposite of the stereotype. I've seen management and unions with a ton of respect for one another who are driven to create the best organization they possibly can. The people who make black and white statements concerning labor relations generally have little experience with any of it or they've only ever experienced one organized organization. Things run the gamut.
Indeed, but I'm really enjoying it in an academic sense right now rather than an applied sense.
OK, so the folks who are raising crap about wages at CG and Wal-Mart do NOT want a ONE DOLLAR PER HOUR RAISE. They want SEVERAL dollars per hour more AND much batter benefits. So, for all of you claiming that it would be nothing for the company to give everyone a dollar an hour if the executives took a pay cut, you are ridiculous.
There are boutique shops for those of you who want better customer service when buying a bass. That is well established.
However, I would argue that fancier grocery stores and/or depaetment stores don't offer any better customer service than Wal-Mart. Again, it is NOT the JOB of huge department store chains (or MUSIC store chains) to offer great customer service. It is also NOT the job of those places to offer great CAREERS for UNSKILLED WORKERS. These are the kinds of places that unskilled workers BEGIN their careers at until they figure out what they want to do when they GROW UP. If they NEVER grow up, that isn't Wal-Mart or GC's fault. I'm not going to pay an unskilled worker a great deal more money just because he stuck around and unloaded pallets for three years. He is still an unskilled worker who unloads pallets. And unloading pallets will NEVER be worth $25 an hour. NEVER. If he wants more money, he should sign up for financial aid and go to school. (I am back in school at age 42 and I am SURROUNDED by an over SEVENTY PERCENT population of students on financial aid.) Wal-Mart and GC employees wanting better wages are people who COULD do better but CHOOSE not to. I don't feel a thing for them. There are more federal programs in place to handle child care, housing, food and education than you can swing a stick at. Go get an education and a better job. (And please don;t tell me it can't be done. That's BS. With two small children at age 42 I am living proof that it CAN be done. My classes start back Thursday.)
As for GC and Wal-Mart, again, employees just stay out of my way and I will get my own cheap strings, bread, paint, and basses thank you.
Also, anyone who thinks that it costs GC $20K, or even $10K to "train" and employee is on drugs. It just isn't so. They watch a couple of videos and learn how to run the cash register. End of story.
There are boutique shops for those of you who want better customer service when buying a bass. That is well established.
However, I would argue that fancier grocery stores and/or depaetment stores don't offer any better customer service than Wal-Mart. Again, it is NOT the JOB of huge department store chains (or MUSIC store chains) to offer great customer service. It is also NOT the job of those places to offer great CAREERS for UNSKILLED WORKERS. These are the kinds of places that unskilled workers BEGIN their careers at until they figure out what they want to do when they GROW UP. If they NEVER grow up, that isn't Wal-Mart or GC's fault. I'm not going to pay an unskilled worker a great deal more money just because he stuck around and unloaded pallets for three years. He is still an unskilled worker who unloads pallets. And unloading pallets will NEVER be worth $25 an hour. NEVER. If he wants more money, he should sign up for financial aid and go to school. (I am back in school at age 42 and I am SURROUNDED by an over SEVENTY PERCENT population of students on financial aid.) Wal-Mart and GC employees wanting better wages are people who COULD do better but CHOOSE not to. I don't feel a thing for them. There are more federal programs in place to handle child care, housing, food and education than you can swing a stick at. Go get an education and a better job. (And please don;t tell me it can't be done. That's BS. With two small children at age 42 I am living proof that it CAN be done. My classes start back Thursday.)
As for GC and Wal-Mart, again, employees just stay out of my way and I will get my own cheap strings, bread, paint, and basses thank you.
Also, anyone who thinks that it costs GC $20K, or even $10K to "train" and employee is on drugs. It just isn't so. They watch a couple of videos and learn how to run the cash register. End of story.
RaginRog
Last guy you want to see is Employee Relations guy
Federal employee and labor relations guy here, and formally a UAW rep. In my case it's much easier to play nice. ULPs are a waste of time but should be avoided to keep from straining labor management relations.
Unions have severely lost their relevance in today's work force in my opinion. Rather, they have lost their sense of purpose. Due to that, they must go bye bye.
RaginRog
Last guy you want to see is Employee Relations guy
Nationwide perhaps, but locally there is a world of difference between the employees at Guitar Center and Sam Ash. There's a big difference in the quality and selection of instruments available at Sam Ash and Guitar Center as well.
In my view, where unions went astray is when they ceased to serve as the de facto "labor movement" looking out for the interests of all workers. This led to some strategic mistakes whose impact could not be imagined at the time, such as employer sponsored health care. In time, it allowed business interests to "divide and conquer" by pitting union and non-union labor against one another. The result is that there is presently no cohesive movement in the US advocating the interests of wage laborers, whatever those interests might be.
Unrepresented
Something Borderline Offensive
I disagree entirely. Things have gotten worse for the American middle class as union membership has declined (read: been forcibly dismantled).
Invalid Link Removed
Not in my neck of the woods. The only difference between the two is that GC was in Covina, and Sam Ash in City of Industry.
I chose which one to shop at based solely on proximity. The level of customer service and the selection of gear at either was the same, basically "I'll take those strings" or "Can I look at that stompbox". There is a small music shop near my new house called 'Styles' that I plan on checking out soon.
It seems like the Sam Ash near you just happens to have better staffing than your local GC.
