GC employees unionizing...

[guy n. cognito]

Unions are only as strong as their members and society allow them to be.

And the corruption? Did society cause that, too?

 

[Floyd Eye]

And the corruption? Did society cause that, too?

Dude, arguing with ardent unionists is futile. And I say this as a guy with a union job.

 

[Unrepresented]

And the corruption? Did society cause that, too?

Corruption was everywhere during the early and mid 20th century.

So yes, if you've got a society that breeds unchecked corruption then yes, it'll infiltrate everything.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Corruption was everywhere during the early and mid 20th century.

So yes, if you've got a society that breeds unchecked corruption then yes, it'll infiltrate everything.

Corruption only exists in labor unions and was the cause of the 2007 financial collapse.

 

[fdeck]

What kind of corruption? I haven't read about organized crime activity within unions for years. Hoffa's dead.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Dude, arguing with ardent unionists is futile. And I say this as a guy with a union job.

Arguing with ardent and ideologically entrenched positions on either side is futile. Even at the macro-level, organizations like the Right-to-Work Council shovel as much horse manure as any labor organization on the other side. Ideally, employees are supposed to make a well-informed decision. Realistically, that generally doesn't happen, which is why I always chuckle a bit when arguments arise that Taft-Hartley "leveled the playing field." I've remained pretty neutral and academic throughout this discussion, but I will make a value statement and confess that, for the sake of balanced labor relations, I am not a fan of captive audiences speeches being legal...at least without unions having equal access to employees. They're also a host for potential 8(a)(1) violations.

With that said, Unrepresented is correct. Any union is only as good as its local and how much of initiative the rank-and-file take in their labor organization. Corruption, bureaucracy, and all of that are symptomatic of organizations in general. For good or for bad, unions aren't special in that regard. They're an organization, similar to any other nonprofit, government entity, or even profit-seeking firm. I could easily apply Weber's theory of bureaucracy to the CWA as I could IBM or the U.S. patent office.

 

[Unrepresented]

Corruption only exists in labor unions and was the cause of the 2007 financial collapse.

I can only assume you're quoting from a Texas board of education approved history textbook.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Corruption only exists in labor unions and was the cause of the 2007 financial collapse.

Exactly. It wasn't big business lenders on Wall Street gambling on the deeds and titles of houses they didn't even own which caused it. [/sarcasm]

Let's be real here. Unions and big business have both had their problems; neither is perfect. That said, there's no reason why both can't exist and why both can't prosper together. It's about finding a balance.

Unfortunately, some people rather balance it in favor of executive salaries so those guys can afford their third vacation home rather than balance it so that each American can afford to provide food, water, and shelter for their families.

I have all of those things. I don't belong to a union.

If this is too personal then I'll happily delete this comment for you, but let's not pretend you're not of a more privileged class than most people, Guy.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Exactly. It wasn't big business lenders on Wall Street gambling on the deeds and titles of houses they didn't even own which caused it. [/sarcasm]

Let's be real here. Unions and big business have both had their problems; neither is perfect. That said, there's no reason why both can't exist and why both can't prosper together. It's about finding a balance.

Unfortunately, some people rather balance it in favor of executive salaries so those guys can afford their third vacation home rather than balance it so that each American can afford to provide food, water, and shelter for their families.



If this is too personal then I'll happily delete this comment for you, but let's not pretend you're not of a more privileged class than most people.

You're right, let's not:

My mother was a school teacher. My father disappeared when I was 8 leaving us with massive amounts of debt. My mother raised two boys on less than $30,000 a year. Many people would consider that low income. I've held jobs since I was 10. I paid my own way through both high school and college, since my mother's income wasn't sufficient to allow her to help. I've worked my way up from a job that paid $16,000 per year to a solid 6 figures as a senior vice president at a large regional bank in less than 20 years.

Is that what you consider privileged, chief? If so, then yes, I'm privileged.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

I can only assume you're quoting from a Texas board of education approved history textbook.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

You're right, let's not:

My mother was a school teacher. My father disappeared when I was 8 leaving us with massive amounts of debt. My mother raised two boys on less than $30,000 a year. Many people would consider that low income. I've held jobs since I was 10. I paid my own way through both high school and college, since my mother's income wasn't sufficient to allow her to help. I've worked my way up from a job that paid $16,000 per year to a solid 6 figures as a senior vice president at a large regional bank in less than 20 years.

Is that what you consider privileged, chief? If so, then yes, I'm privileged.

I'm in the high seven figures.

Counting both sides of the decimal point.

 

[guy n. cognito]

I'm in the high seven figures.

Counting both sides of the decimal point.

Every cent counts.

 

[Floyd Eye]

Yeah that's privileged. You know, being responsible for your own destiny as opposed to crying about how someone else owes you something.

 

[Old Fart]

Corruption only exists in labor unions and was the cause of the 2007 financial collapse.

No that's funny.

I'd say that, pound-for-pound, the most financially stable and most robust and effective manufacturing country in the world is Germany. I won't rattle the statistics off here, but Germany is an economic and financial and manufacturing POWERHOUSE.

There almost is no such thing as a non-union worker in Germany. Boards of directors have seats for union reps...by law.

This bit about unions being antithetical to efficiency and corporate success....is verifiably false.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

I believe Bob was being satirical.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Facetious, actually.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Damn, I need to revisit the definitions of my fictional devices.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

You're right, let's not:

My mother was a school teacher. My father disappeared when I was 8 leaving us with massive amounts of debt. My mother raised two boys on less than $30,000 a year. Many people would consider that low income. I've held jobs since I was 10. I paid my own way through both high school and college, since my mother's income wasn't sufficient to allow her to help. I've worked my way up from a job that paid $16,000 per year to a solid 6 figures as a senior vice president at a large regional bank in less than 20 years.

Is that what you consider privileged, chief? If so, then yes, I'm privileged.

My dad left when I was 9. I started working at 12. My mom was a college teacher with a masters degree, but after getting married and becoming a mother she quit her job. When he left she tried to get another job teaching (in a new state), but wasn't able to because the state of Tennessee said she needed more schooling, more certificates, and other nonsense that she couldn't afford to do nor reasonably do while raising a child. In other words, we were broke.

We too picked ourselves up from our bootstraps, and oddly enough our stories really aren't different. I think it's awesome you have gotten as far as you have, and no doubt in my mind you worked hard for it. I've been working hard myself, so it's nice to know that it can pay off one day. However, it's interesting to me that, despite our similar stories, I'm in favor of helping others who have gone through similar tough times as us while you, the VP making a solid 6 figures, seems hesitant. Why is that?

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Yeah that's privileged. You know, being responsible for your own destiny as opposed to crying about how someone else owes you something.

Floyd, comments like this start arguments and close threads. You're trolling when you say stuff like this. Stop it. You do it in every thread like this.

 

[Unrepresented]

My dad left when I was 9. I started working at 12. My mom was a college teacher with a masters degree, but after getting married and becoming a mother she quit her job. When he left she tried to get another job teaching (in a new state), but wasn't able to because the state of Tennessee said she needed more schooling, more certificates, and other nonsense that she couldn't afford to do nor reasonably do while raising a child. In other words, we were broke.

We too picked ourselves up from our bootstraps, and oddly enough our stories really aren't different. I think it's awesome you have gotten as far as you have, and no doubt in my mind you worked hard for it. I've been working hard myself, so it's nice to know that it can pay off one day. However, it's interesting to me that, despite our similar stories, I'm in favor of helping others who have gone through similar tough times as us while you, the VP making a solid 6 figures, seems hesitant. Why is that?

Same here. I am not going to play the "my sob story is sobbier than yours" game but I know that life can be absolutely, unnecessarily difficult and I don't see any reason to perpetuate that for those who come after me.