Gear snobs.

[Brad Johnson]

The only thing I equated them to was themselves by pointing out that cats are not dogs and dogs are not cats. The OP seems to have the expectation for children to be something other than children. Therefore my point was that children equal children.

There was no value opinion applied. That came from your interpretation of the OP I guess. Wasn't from me.

Whatever.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

How do you deal with gear snobs.

My daughter went to an orchestra camp this week. It’s at a large well known university. She has a student cello. A lot of people showed up with their Sadowsky cellos and the such. Being teenagers you can imagine the snobbery.

I feel bad for her,but told her to show them how it’s done. Be humble ,but lay down the chops. She’s good enough to make every honors orchestra she tries out for and plays with the junior philharmonic ,which is part of the local professional philharmonic orchestra.

Gear snobs man, my ten thousand dollar bass means I’m better than you.


I’m working on getting her a good cello, but man if you think bass gear is expensive....

A $10,000 instrument does not make you a better player. Think of it this way, you may get dinged for bad tone, but you will fail or get fired if you can’t play the parts.

 

[Indiana Mike]

too add

A $10,000 instrument does not make you a better player. Think of it this way, you may get dinged for bad tone, but you will fail or get fired if you can’t play the parts.

That's what I've explained to her . The whole thing was a negative experience for her and I could tell it was affecting her confidence. I explained it's a game ,it's a competition, and to not absorb it and let it affect your audition. It really rattled her . Part of life is learning to deal with these events. All I can do is offer support and guidance. She needs to learn to handle negative events. She wasnt begging for a new cello. Her confidence was shaken. It upset me because what should be an educational experience was immediately impacted by negative actions. After thinking about it, this experience has been educational for her. Make lemonade out of lemons.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

too add


That's what I've explained to her . The whole thing was a negative experience for her and I could tell it was affecting her confidence. I explained it's a game ,it's a competition, and to not absorb it and let it affect your audition. It really rattled her . Part of life is learning to deal with these events. All I can do is offer support and guidance. She needs to learn to handle negative events. She wasnt begging for a new cello. Her confidence was shaken. It upset me because what should be an educational experience was immediately impacted by negative actions. After thinking about it, this experience has been educational for her. Make lemonade out of lemons.

Peer pressure is tough to deal with no doubt. And frankly, if I came off condescending, I do apologize. At 66 its hard for me to think back that far to relate to what she is going through, let alone me not being a girl. I hope she kicks butt. She’s got this whole bard behind her.

 

[Indiana Mike]

Peer pressure is tough to deal with no doubt. And frankly, if I came off condescending, I do apologize. At 66 its hard for me to think back that far to relate to what she is going through, let alone me not being a girl. I hope she kicks butt. She’s got this whole bard behind her.

Nothing said here has been taken that way by myself. I appreciate honest opinions.

 

[Indiana Mike]

The only thing I equated them to was themselves by pointing out that cats are not dogs and dogs are not cats. The OP seems to have the expectation for children to be something other than children. Therefore my point was that children equal children.



There was no value opinion applied. That came from your interpretation of the OP I guess. Wasn't from me.

I get your point.


No , I do not have that expectation. I was frustrated that she had to deal with negativity within the first hours of arrival. Just wish she didn't have to experience this .We didnt sign up for mental toughness boot camp. I'm sure it was one or two individuals ,not the masses. People use these tactics to move themselves forward. Always have and always will. It's dominating behavior.

Raised three kids,have five more stepchildren and have six grandkids . May not be an expert ,don't always get it right,but I've had a lot of practice.

 

[fdeck]

A $10,000 instrument does not make you a better player. Think of it this way, you may get dinged for bad tone, but you will fail or get fired if you can’t play the parts.

Especially on an acoustic instrument, getting good tone is part of being able to play. I've observed a lot of music lessons. Tone is a very big deal -- it sometimes consumes an entire lesson. A student can reach a point where the quality of their instrument is holding them back from improving. It happens somewhere between Suzuki Book 1 and Don Juan.

Strauss - Don Juan - Violin Excerpts

A violinist told me: "Anybody can play the notes, the hard part is making it sound musical."

Of course this thread has gone beyond just offering advice to the OP, but still it's an interesting topic.

There are a number of posts to the effect of: "Just get in there and win." I disagree with that sentiment. Maybe it is or isn't the right way to deal with bullying, but not the right way to approach music. I think that music shouldn't be a contest, and most musicians don't want it to be one. For kids, it should be to develop a lifelong love of music. This doesn't even require being a better musician than everybody else, or winning anything.

Of course there's a competitive side to music that can't be eliminated, but most musicians consider it to be a necessary evil. There will be auditions, and they're nothing but a win-lose proposition. But musicians recognize the level of stress, and tend to be supportive of one another.

 

[Indiana Mike]

Just to add a bit of contrast to this thread, that is filled with good quality comments, it's important to appreciate the distinction between "gear pride" and "gear snobbery". Some people are proud of the instrument they have and the story behind it. That's not snobbery. Others listening to this can share in the speaker's pride and they don't have to feel bad about their own instruments as they have their own stories to be proud of. It's the looking down on others that makes the snob. It does exist, but people talking about their instrument in glowing terms, doesn't mean they are snobs.

Spot on. There is no shame in having "stuff" or being proud of it.
I'm referring to behaviour in general, whether its dogging someone else's gear,or shoes,or car ,or house etc...

 

[Brad Johnson]

I saw (Nigel) Kennedy break a string on his violin during a concert with the San Francisco Symphony, trade violins with the first violinist who played a violin made in San Mateo, CA, by Ken Su and no one could tell the difference. I assume Kennedy was playing an "acclaimed" violin given his status as noted soloist prior to the break. So much for "needing" that Strad or Guarneri.

Because you know he didn't notice a difference?

 

[walking Bass]

Because you know he didn't notice a difference?

He may have noticed a difference, but it didn't have any effect on how he sounded to the audience, nor did it appear to effect his playing. The episode became locally famous and was featured in marketing info from Ken.

 

[Brad Johnson]

He may have noticed a difference, but it didn't have any effect on how he sounded to the audience, nor did it appear to effect his playing. The episode became locally famous and was featured in marketing info from Ken.

Cool. Many folks wouldn't care beyond that... falls in line with "the audience doesn't care what you sound like" thing. But that doesn't tell the whole story.

Did he get one of Ken's instruments afterwards?

When I worked with Brubaker Guitars we got wind of a situation overseas with Victor Wooten. I think his Fodera got lost and he ended up using a Brubaker Brute, our import model. It didn't suck We were told by several people that we should use that as part of our advertising. My thinking was Victor used the bass because he had to... not because he wanted to... not exactly a glowing endorsement. Big difference in my eyes.

 

[walking Bass]

Cool. Many folks wouldn't care beyond that... falls in line with "the audience doesn't care what you sound like" thing. But that doesn't tell the whole story.

Did he get one of Ken's instruments afterwards?

When I worked with Brubaker Guitars we got wind of a situation overseas with Victor Wooten. I think his Fodera got lost and he ended up using a Brubaker Brute, our import model. It didn't suck We were told by several people that we should use that as part of our advertising. My thinking was Victor used the bass because he had to... not because he wanted to... not exactly a glowing endorsement. Big difference in my eyes.

I agree it doesn't become a recommendation by Kennedy, on the other hand it was chosen by San Francisco Symphony's First Violinist or it wouldn't have been available instantly on stage. That's not a bad recommendation. I'm certain he had many options.

 

[fdeck]

The world of fine violins is pretty bizarre. I've noticed that a growing number of concert violinists coming through Madison are leaving their old fiddles at home. Many of the most valuable instruments aren't even owned by the players, but are on loan from investors. And it's been rumored for a long time that the Strads are in decline, or that modern instruments have caught up. And some of the musicians are interested in supporting the new masters.

Meanwhile, there are definite differences among student grade instruments, as you might expect from differences in materials and construction. There are two cellos and two basses in my house. There are noticeable differences in tone and playability within this small collection of instruments.

 

[Erokker]

I recently was refused to even hold a fellow bass player's prized Alembic. He proceeded to play his set - the musical equivalent of a fat man walking across a hot gravel lot in his bare feet....

 

[Teddybear]

...taking the piss of other folk's choice..

In 65 years I have never heard anything like that. If you don't mind, would you explain what you mean. I'm not being insulting. I really want to know.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I recently was refused to even hold a fellow bass player's prized Alembic. He proceeded to play his set - the musical equivalent of a fat man walking across a hot gravel lot in his bare feet....

It takes all kinds. Some won't even bring them out. OTOH I've handed many of mine to children.

 

[Brad Johnson]

In 65 years I have never heard anything like that. If you don't mind, would you explain what you mean. I'm not being insulting. I really want to know.

I've lost track of how many times I've heard people diss others apparently because the other person had nicer gear. It spoke volumes about them.

A guy asked a friend of mine why I have the instruments that I do. The obvious answer was because he was not a factor in acquiring them.

 

[Teddybear]

I'm certain he had many options.

Not really. Many things are tradition. It's a little like not washing a uniform when you are in a hitting streak or not stepping on the baseline when walking on and off of the field. Part of being first chair comes with the expectation that you are responsible for helping a visiting soloist if something minor goes wrong. The soloist and first chair probably didn't think twice and had no hesitation when exchanging instruments. It was expected.

 

[walking Bass]

Not really. Many things are tradition. It's a little like not washing a uniform when you are in a hitting streak or not stepping on the baseline when walking on and off of the field. Part of being first chair comes with the expectation that you are responsible for helping a visiting soloist if something minor goes wrong. The soloist and first chair probably didn't think twice and had no hesitation when exchanging instruments. It was expected.

of course, I mentioned he had other violin options. He chose a locally made Ken Su and happily passed it to Nigel while restringing Nigel's violin.

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

How do you deal with gear snobs.

My daughter went to an orchestra camp this week. It’s at a large well known university. She has a student cello. A lot of people showed up with their Sadowsky cellos and the such. Being teenagers you can imagine the snobbery.

I feel bad for her,but told her to show them how it’s done. Be humble ,but lay down the chops. She’s good enough to make every honors orchestra she tries out for and plays with the junior philharmonic ,which is part of the local professional philharmonic orchestra.

Gear snobs man, my ten thousand dollar bass means I’m better than you.


I’m working on getting her a good cello, but man if you think bass gear is expensive....


Edit , may be implied that all the kids were like this , its one or two,not all. I have not modified this post in any other way,its original.

My mom is a cello, viola and violin player. She taught me piano and i went on to guitar.

We always talked about purchases. When she started seeing me take a plane to try an old guitar and when they vintage guys started calling and sending me birthday cards, we started talking prices.

I was amazed one day when a bow for her cello showed up by personal carrier. Totally surprised that she paid $6K for a bow that she was going to get restrung by "her guy".

What really floored me was when she nonchalantly mentioned that this was somewhat below mid-gradefor what she had. This one was for a spare.

While cellists surprisingly don't like changing strings in sets too often, i'll never complain about bass string prices ever again.