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Geddy Lee & Chris Squire sound

#21
All but about 2 songs on Moving Pictures were recorded with either the double neck Ric or the Jetglo 4001

Half of moving pictures was the 72 jazz and half was the 4001. Geddy sounded about the same with both basses.


Guys, I have both a vintage '70's Ric and a Jazz. The only song on Moving Pictures that I actually think is a Rick is Red Barchetta. Everything else sounds like the jazz. There's a certain punch to the upper range of a Rick -- it is thicker in the bottom end. I only hear it on the high runs on Red Barchetta. When he goes high on the other songs, there's a less aggressive bottom end attack.

As far as the sound -- Moving Pictures is kind of unique for the recorded bass tone. it is highly distorted but it's a very nice blended distortion. The only other bass tone like it that I have heard is Close to the Edge . . . which is what I think Ged was trying for on that album.

The sound is in the fingers, however. It doesn't matter what equipment Geddy uses, or Squire. They sound like that because that's how they play.
 
#23
robchorz said:
How can I get the Geddy Lee & Chris Squire sound of the 70's.
Click to expand...
Chris used a bass amp for clean lows and a guitar amp for dirty mids; on the first 'Yes' alblum it was a cranked Fender Twin. The guitar amp is key, as guitar drivers are made to go dirty at fairly low levels, which is very much the opposite of how most bass drivers are made today. A twenty watt tube guitar combo would be my choice, with effects pedals to its input if it won't go dirty enough on its own.
 
#26
billfitzmaurice said:
Chris used a bass amp for clean lows and a guitar amp for dirty mids; on the first 'Yes' alblum it was a cranked Fender Twin. The guitar amp is key, as guitar drivers are made to go dirty at fairly low levels, which is very much the opposite of how most bass drivers are made today. A twenty watt tube guitar combo would be my choice, with effects pedals to its input if it won't go dirty enough on its own.
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Later on Chris uses a SVT for the front pup and Marshall for the bridge pup. But anyway, just watch Miguelbass on YT he is the Squire master. He use mostly a sansamp BDDI. Just as Chris, he gets the Chris tone from his Squire sig 4001, a jazz, a p bass or even a 5 string Warwick!
 
#28
Not so sure about the 4001 Geddy was using, but Chris Squire uses the original 4001 with a real deal horseshoe pickup. The guy from Pick of the Ricks said the impedance of his pickup is 4.0k, which is very low. He has his horseshoe pickup re-gaussed about once a year. IMO it's more about pickups than anything. The 4003 has high gain pickups possibly as high as 15k, it will never sound like a 60s 4001. If you want your 4003 to sound like a vintage 4001, you need different pickups. A vintage-style 7.4k scatter-wound toaster will run you $150+ if you can find one (check Pick of the Ricks often, they sell out quick when they get them.) For the bridge pickup, if you want a real deal magnetic horseshoe pickup, look to pay close to $1000 if one ever comes up on eBay. I actually have a legitimate late 60s/early 70s 7.6k high gain bridge pickup on my Ric, I could probably get over $200 for it on eBay. I actually got lucky, I paid $30 on eBay because the seller didn't take good pictures and said it came from the neck of a late 70s Ric. The sound I get with my Ric is probably about as close as one can get to the Chris Squire sound without a real horseshoe pickup. All the vintage re-issue Rics don't come close. They make them look vintage, but they never use the proper sub-8k pickups they would need to use for the true vintage sound. Also, a 75 Jazz Bass (Geddy's other bass) should have pickups in the 7-8.5k range.

As far as the amps and preamp, I can't say, but Chris Squire made extensive use of the Ric-O-Sound options, putting his neck pickup through a bass amp and his bridge pickup through a guitar amp.
 
#32
Hydromantic said:
@Brian_L : Did you find a better setting? I'm curious to know :)
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I found a setting that I like a lot better than the "Yes" preset, but I really don't think it is all that much like Ged or CS. To my ears though, it does have a nice bite, and sufficient clank.

Keep in mind, this is a VT Deluxe. Having just sold a regular VT, it seems to me that the knob positions are not a complete duplicate from one to the other. I tried some of the settings I had recorded with the VT, and found I needed some additional tweaks when I tried those on the Deluxe.

In any event, here is what I am working with:

Drive 11:30
Character 1:30
Low 1:00
Mid 9:30
High 2:00

I am running into the effects return on the Shuttle 6/12t. The 4003 is running both pickups, and everything is wide open.

Of course, YMMV, actually Your Mileage WILL vary. :-)

Brian
 
#33
Brian_L said:
Understood, but I really doubt that the preset we are talking about would be saved by a set of rounds. It just sounds distorted beyond all reason.

Brian
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Yes, I agree. But the setup of the VT pedal will never be the same for each bass. The sansamp pedal are very "picky" on setup and the input signal.
I think the BDDI pedal will serve better than the VT for the Squire or Geddy sound as it have the blend function. The sound you are looking for i both cases is a blend of distorted sound and clean sound. Chris use the Rick- o sound to have clean bass from the neck pup through SVT and distorted sound from the bridge pup through the guitar amp.
Geddy use a sansamp RBM and RBI to du tha same.

The best way to get the Squire tone will be to splitt the signal, and use the VT for the slightly dirty SVT and the Sansamp British ( Marshall ) for getting the distortion portion.
 
#35
Brian_L said:
I found a setting that I like a lot better than the "Yes" preset, but I really don't think it is all that much like Ged or CS. To my ears though, it does have a nice bite, and sufficient clank.

Keep in mind, this is a VT Deluxe. Having just sold a regular VT, it seems to me that the knob positions are not a complete duplicate from one to the other. I tried some of the settings I had recorded with the VT, and found I needed some additional tweaks when I tried those on the Deluxe.

In any event, here is what I am working with:

Drive 11:30
Character 1:30
Low 1:00
Mid 9:30
High 2:00

I am running into the effects return on the Shuttle 6/12t. The 4003 is running both pickups, and everything is wide open.

Of course, YMMV, actually Your Mileage WILL vary. :-)

Brian
Click to expand...

Thanks Brian! It's funny because I use nearly the same setting! :smug: I tried with a bit more of drive and it's not so far from Squire...
 
#36
Hydromantic said:
Thanks Brian! It's funny because I use nearly the same setting! :smug: I tried with a bit more of drive and it's not so far from Squire...
Click to expand...

Cool.

One thing I noticed with the rig is that I can increase the Drive to a certain level, and then dial it up just an RCH more and it's like everything falls off a cliff, and the low "E" starts farting out. All the knobs on the VT are VERY interactive and making a change to one may mean making a change to one or more other knobs. That is why I went with the Deluxe after deciding that I liked what I was hearing with a regular VT Bass; I needed to have the presets to save my settings.

As an aside, I do find that with some very minor adjustments, the "SVT" and and "Thumpy Funk" presets work pretty well with both the Ric and the Jazz. The "Flip Top", "Rage" and "Fuzzed Out" not so much.

Brian
 
#37
A Ric with a toaster and horseshoe will get you even closer to Squires sound than a stock 4003. A v63 works wonders if you don't want to spring for the signature model (or an original).

I once saw some footage of a Yes rehearsal where they were all using small amps played reasonably quietly. Chris still sounded like Chris even without his big rig.
 
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#38
Squire also has an odd picking technique ( which I inadvertently copped a long time ago). He holds the point real close and lets part of his thumb break across the strings after the pick. You can cop Squire tones reasonably close with almost any amp, a 4001 and this technique.

Geddy's Ric has stock hi-gains and his tone ( Ric tone that is) can be copped almost exactly using a 4001 and an RBI.

Just my opinion of course.
 

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