Genz-Benz Streamliner Part 5

[Gab124]

+1...

One of the things I really liked about this amp when I gigged it over the weekend is the way it made it's presence felt. The notes were distinct and articulate without relying on volume, or 'cutting through the mix'.

They were just THERE, supporting the band. That's a good thing for me, but I recognise it won't be appreciated by everyone.

+100. That is exactly what my ear hears as well. It reminds me of the descriptions for why many people prefer flats over rounds - the way the bass sits in the mix. Powerful, supportive, non boomy, and not way out front. I think someone said it best way back "it cuts with warm gooey tubey goodness instead of treble extension" (or something like that - or maybe nothing like that
I personally find it articulate for my tastes.

 

[Chef]

Long throws+compression driver horn.

If that has the long throws in it, with no mid driver, +1 that also would be kind of an iffy matchup....

 

[KJung]

Long throws+compression driver horn.

+1 Even more 'scoop modern' than the 410UL to my ear (that big upper mid hole and deep, extended low end). GREAT cab.... but I guess as you found out, probably not the best cab for an all tube amp, or the Streamliner IMO.

I would think the tighter and more mid present Walkabout or our M9 with that upper mid brightness and massive EQ power would continue to make you happy with those particular cabs. Too much of a good thing with the Streamliner, at least with a J Bass

 

[Eublet]

IMHO, this head doesn't punch at all. It wallops. That's a characteristic I associate with the db750 and many other tubey heads. It has gobs of wallop under the hood. Glorious sounding solo and for those who want that kind of thing in a band mix. I don't. The Shuttle 9 to me starts off tight, and then I can add some wallop at my choosing, which is the approach I prefer over this.

I'm not afraid to cut bass either. I had the bass COMPLETELY off, hoping that it would accentuate the upper mids a bit more. It didn't really work. I also cut lower mids at 220, which helped a little, but the end result still wasn't quite what I was after.

Also, I'll agree that this tone works better with a P bass. I play a 55-02 mostly, in the jazz mode setting, and it's just too deep sounding to get the clarity I'm after. I love that fret buzz and grind when I slide on notes, but it just doesn't come through in the way I want it to, which is probably WAY more distinct than what most folks would want, especially those who are used to all-tube heads.

Again, I'm really saddened because I love the way this thing sounds as I just sit here in front of it. With the AE212, it moves massive amounts of air and it just gives me goose bumps. I felt this way about the db750 on a db410, but gosh did I ever hate that head on a gig. Only time I ever liked it was outdoors on a wide open stage with no walls or structures anywhere around.

I honestly don't think I need to wait for a gig to know for sure on this. This head just isn't for me. I'm happy for Genz however, and for all the users who are finally going to get this kind of voicing and feel in a small and light package.

 

[wateroftyne]

IMHO, this head doesn't punch at all. It wallops.

In the interests of balance, I respectfully disagree.

I guess it's all down to interpretation.

 

[Eublet]

In the interests of balance, I respectfully disagree.

I guess it's all down to interpretation.

I totally agree. Tastes, interpretation, and semantics of description. You can feel this thing hit you in the gut when you strike a note. I guess some would call that punch. For me though, without that upper mid agressiveness, it feels like I'm being walloped instead, if that makes sense.

 

[wateroftyne]

I totally agree. Tastes, interpretation, and semantics of description. You can feel this thing hit you in the gut when you strike a note. I guess some would call that punch. For me though, without that upper mid agressiveness, it feels like I'm being walloped instead, if that makes sense.

Ah, OK. I get you.

I think you're short-changing it unless you gig it first, though - let the power stage do its' thing...

 

[Tunaman]

I totally agree. Tastes, interpretation, and semantics of description. You can feel this thing hit you in the gut when you strike a note. I guess some would call that punch. For me though, without that upper mid agressiveness, it feels like I'm being walloped instead, if that makes sense.

Eds new video of the Shuttlemax 9.2 is amazing. That's your amp, no question based on your tone goals.

I personally like the diversity the Streamliner gives me vs my Eden Navigator (Which sounds like the Shuttlemax)

If I only had to buy 1 amp of the 3, its the Shuttlemax 9.2 hands down, not even close.

The hype around the Streamliner is JUSTIFIED however, this amp is VERY VERY different than anything else out there, warm as hell, tone that was NEVER possible at this size, at this price

 

[funkyjudge]

I totally agree. Tastes, interpretation, and semantics of description. You can feel this thing hit you in the gut when you strike a note. I guess some would call that punch. For me though, without that upper mid agressiveness, it feels like I'm being walloped instead, if that makes sense.

I'm with Wateroftyne on this one! Although I can certainly get "punchiness" and a bit of "wallop" from the SL900 through my UL310-S2 cab, I think that there is sufficient flexibility built into the EQ settings, twin gain controls, etc. on the Streamliner head to get a bit more "modern" cut-through-the-mix, with controlled bottom-end (or lack of "bottom-heaviness"). Sure, if you want a bit of "booty" in your tone, you can certainly dial it in with the Streamliner (particularly if you set the mid frequency at 220Hz and boost the bass and mids more than a hair), but you can also get suffient upper-mids and treble if you set the mid frequency control at 2.5KHz and cut-back on the bass frequency EQ control (say to 9:00 or 10:00 on the dial), while boosting the mids and treble to about 1:00 to 2:00/each on the dial.

Of course, this is coming from an 'old guy bassist' (62 this month) who still likes a bit of "low-end rumble" ... so take these comments for what you oaid for them.

 

[ElMon]

IMHO, this head doesn't punch at all. It wallops. That's a characteristic I associate with the db750 and many other tubey heads. It has gobs of wallop under the hood. Glorious sounding solo and for those who want that kind of thing in a band mix. I don't. The Shuttle 9 to me starts off tight, and then I can add some wallop at my choosing, which is the approach I prefer over this.

I'm not afraid to cut bass either. I had the bass COMPLETELY off, hoping that it would accentuate the upper mids a bit more. It didn't really work. I also cut lower mids at 220, which helped a little, but the end result still wasn't quite what I was after.

Also, I'll agree that this tone works better with a P bass. I play a 55-02 mostly, in the jazz mode setting, and it's just too deep sounding to get the clarity I'm after. I love that fret buzz and grind when I slide on notes, but it just doesn't come through in the way I want it to, which is probably WAY more distinct than what most folks would want, especially those who are used to all-tube heads.

Again, I'm really saddened because I love the way this thing sounds as I just sit here in front of it. With the AE212, it moves massive amounts of air and it just gives me goose bumps. I felt this way about the db750 on a db410, but gosh did I ever hate that head on a gig. Only time I ever liked it was outdoors on a wide open stage with no walls or structures anywhere around.

I honestly don't think I need to wait for a gig to know for sure on this. This head just isn't for me. I'm happy for Genz however, and for all the users who are finally going to get this kind of voicing and feel in a small and light package.

Your post here illustrates how important it is to match the bass to the amp. My Sadowsky PJ5 has plenty of midpunch, especially in the lowmids, and therefore I've had zero problems cutting through in some terrible rooms either with the STL900 or my DB750.

I don't know if your Lakie is Bart-Equipped, but I ended up dumping the 55-94 I had briefly because it just sounded like mud through my Aguilar rig, for my tonal needs and IME of course. And yet I have a friend who plays that same bass through a LMII/Epi 410UL rig and it just sounds amazing.

I am surpised that you ended up rolling the bass all the way off. Was your bass' EQ flat as well?

 

[Eublet]

I have Lakland electronics, which are different from the Barts. I've never had an issue with punch or cut with it in any setup. It out performs any other instrument for my needs because it cuts so well. Again, it's not an "issue" here per se. The Streamliner just has a voice of it's own, and there's no EQ control in the position I'd like to control it. I did run my Tone Hammer through it first, and used the sweepable mids to really push some articulation just over 1k into it. It worked to some extent, but the end result wasn't as desirable as I'd like.

I'm not dogging the SL at all. Very nice head with a tube depth previously unseen in a micro head. DB750 users who don't like the weight should flock over to this thing in droves. Walkabout lovers such as myself might not be as thrilled, but who knows? This thing is really cool and sexy to me. I just don't think it's something I can use. I don't want to throw the thread out of whack by posting my thoughts. Everyone wanting an all-tube feel should check this head out pronto. See for yourself.

 

[nostatic]

I can see why some might not dig this amp, especially with certain bass and cabinet combinations. But I also agree that you have to try it in a real live mix - your live mix - to know. I have traditionally liked a tone that cuts and has very detailed mid. Hence my liking Zons and Roscoes for the past decade or so. In a band mix I wanted to hear myself, but not overpower the rest of the band. An articulate bass, amp, and cab can get you there. For 10 years I played my Zons, mostly the Lightwave, with an Ashdown ABM500 (which would normally be considered on the tubey side) paired with EA VL110s (which I found to be mid-focused). That worked for me.

These days I'm playing in 4 different bands and I've moved towards sliding my tone around a bit more. The P-Bass is a recent revelation for me, in part because it is a very different way of sounding. It doesn't cut like a Roscoe, but rather wraps around the band sound. That sound changes my approach to the lines I play as well. And then it also makes me want to think differently about the amp and eq.

As I've found and others have noted - the S900 + P-Bass is magic. In part because I think if you're playing a P-Bass, you're likely working in that "supportive/wrapped around" tone world instead of the Roscoe "cut through" or JJ "slap/ping/whacka" thing. When I went back and forth between the S900 and S9.0 and the P, to my ear the S900 was almost too much - I wasn't used to so much low end being floating around. But the band loved it. The S9.0 sounded "better" to my ear that was used to listening for the cut, but it didn't propel the music the same way. I could feel a difference, and I finished the night with the S900 and it'll be on Friday's gig.

With the Rob Allen, it is a little different, as there I have gobs of low end and want the mids to speak, while having the piezo treble be crisp but not harsh. Tough for most amps to deal with, especially running my AE cabs as they dont' cut you slack in the upper mids if you're sloppy. With that combo the S9.0 has a little more articulation in the mids and the low end is a bit less pronounced. But, the S9.0 also doesn't have quite the note bounce that the S900 has.

The bottom line is that both of these amps are frankly better than any small amp has a right to be. I have zero interest in any large box or lead sled at this point. But they both have strengths and better combinations. Since the S900 is the more voiced of the two, it will react more strongly with particular cabs and instruments. And if you don't like that inherent voice, you'll be fighting the amp. No harm no foul there - if there was one amp to rule them all something would be wrong in the space/time continuum as people's tastes and needs are just too different.

That said, I also agree that the Smax9.2 could be perhaps the best choice for many out there who want a little more neutral but want variety as well. If I hadn't just picked up a S9.0 I likely would grab one of those, but I'm going to work with the combination of amps I have for now in the 4 different groups and see what I find. What I've found in the past is that as you get more towards the "full tube" end of things, you have to experiment more and learn how the tubes interact. It is more of an instrument that you need to learn as opposed to a set of knobs you turn to instantly get "a sound."

 

[12bass]

FWIW, I still think that a sweepable mid would have been better than a three-position mid switch, and without adding significantly more complexity to the design. That would have given people like Eublet the ability to dial in the midrange as needed.

From what has been written, it is sounding like the SL is more suited to those who want their bass to sit underneath with a big cushion that supports the band, and not so good for players who want their tone to ride on top of the mix.

 

[KJung]

FWIW, I still think that a sweepable mid would have been better than a three-position mid switch, and without adding significantly more complexity to the design. That would have given people like Eublet the ability to dial in the midrange as needed.

From what has been written, it is sounding like the SL is more suited to those who want their bass to sit underneath with a big cushion that supports the band, and not so good for players who want their tone to ride on top of the mix.

I actually don't find the three level fixed mid a negative at all. With these wide Q mid controls (I'm guessing 1/2 octave... maybe even wider), we are not talking about a precise slice. A center point of 220, for example, is going to cover a lot of ground, and moving it up or down a bit with a completely variable control does not provide as much precision as you would think. The low mid, mid mid and high mid center points and the wide Q (to my ear) pretty much cover what anyone would need (assuming they like the general voicing of the amp).

 

[12bass]

Given that I don't have an SL here, I can only speculate based upon past experiences with other fixed-frequency designs. I've found that they get you close to the beehive, but not all the way to the honey....

 

[Eublet]

I agree with Ken on this one. I don't think a variable mid-EQ would fix things for me either. The nature of my disappointment is simply that the head has it's own attitude and voice which isn't what I want. That's all cool. Some of the best rigs in history had their own thing happening, and that's why they were loved by many. I'm not upset about this at all. If I were independently wealthy I'd hang on to this thing just because it's so darn cool, and I'd get to use it a couple times a year maybe when the situation fit.

 

[ElMon]

I can see why some might not dig this amp, especially with certain bass and cabinet combinations. But I also agree that you have to try it in a real live mix - your live mix - to know. I have traditionally liked a tone that cuts and has very detailed mid. Hence my liking Zons and Roscoes for the past decade or so. In a band mix I wanted to hear myself, but not overpower the rest of the band. An articulate bass, amp, and cab can get you there. For 10 years I played my Zons, mostly the Lightwave, with an Ashdown ABM500 (which would normally be considered on the tubey side) paired with EA VL110s (which I found to be mid-focused). That worked for me.

These days I'm playing in 4 different bands and I've moved towards sliding my tone around a bit more. The P-Bass is a recent revelation for me, in part because it is a very different way of sounding. It doesn't cut like a Roscoe, but rather wraps around the band sound. That sound changes my approach to the lines I play as well. And then it also makes me want to think differently about the amp and eq.
QUOTE]

This is a huge factor to me, as I am a player who favors how a Pbass 'wraps around' a mix like you say instead of slicing through it. This head just kills for that type of presence tone, and yet I'll add that it sounded phenomenal when I favored my bridge pickup and boosted the mids at 600hz instead of 220hz. Definitely more 'slice' than 'wrap' in that instance. Can't wait to put it through it's paces with the Ash/Maple Sadowsky MV5 I have on the way.

I have Lakland electronics, which are different from the Barts. I've never had an issue with punch or cut with it in any setup. It out performs any other instrument for my needs because it cuts so well. Again, it's not an "issue" here per se. The Streamliner just has a voice of it's own, and there's no EQ control in the position I'd like to control it. I did run my Tone Hammer through it first, and used the sweepable mids to really push some articulation just over 1k into it. It worked to some extent, but the end result wasn't as desirable as I'd like.

I'm not dogging the SL at all. Very nice head with a tube depth previously unseen in a micro head. DB750 users who don't like the weight should flock over to this thing in droves. Walkabout lovers such as myself might not be as thrilled, but who knows? This thing is really cool and sexy to me. I just don't think it's something I can use. I don't want to throw the thread out of whack by posting my thoughts. Everyone wanting an all-tube feel should check this head out pronto. See for yourself.

No need to hold back at all. For all I know there are a ton of players with the same tonal goals/requirements as you who might save some $$ by reading your comments. I'm also curious to hear if your impressions change after gigging the head out. Seems to me that the brighter, more mid-focused tone of the Lakland EQ setup (from what I read at least) would match up pretty well with this amp in a mix.

 

[abassman84]

I agree with Ken on this one. I don't think a variable mid-EQ would fix things for me either. The nature of my disappointment is simply that the head has it's own attitude and voice which isn't what I want. That's all cool. Some of the best rigs in history had their own thing happening, and that's why they were loved by many. I'm not upset about this at all. If I were independently wealthy I'd hang on to this thing just because it's so darn cool, and I'd get to use it a couple times a year maybe when the situation fit.

If I was independently wealthy, I would buy this thing off you. I think it would compliment my TFB550B well and play nice with my HD212. ?

 

[Chef]

You don't have to be independently wealthy, the SL900 is actually quite affordable for a high power, pro grade piece of gear. About a month worth of gig money, for me.

 

[abassman84]

You don't have to be independently wealthy, the SL900 is actually quite affordable for a high power, pro grade piece of gear. About a month worth of gig money, for me.

I agree Chef, but I just bought a NYC Sadowsky...