IME if it's hiss it's likely the preamp. If it's more of a buzz it's the pickups. If that makes sense. If you roll your blend toward one pickup or the other does the hiss go away or change?
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Genz-Benz Streamliner Part 5
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IME if it's hiss it's likely the preamp. If it's more of a buzz it's the pickups. If that makes sense. If you roll your blend toward one pickup or the other does the hiss go away or change?
I'm having a gut check here, but honestly I'm having serious concerns and doubts that the SL900 is going to work for me. I said that it reminded me of a db750 before, and that's both a good and bad thing for my tone goals. The SL900 is just so fat sounding that it might not be able to give me the presence I look for in a mix. I haven't gigged it yet, so it's all guess work right now. I did spend some time last night running my Tascam bass trainer into the Aux In on the SL900, and then used the Headphone out to monitor. I use the Tascam's feature which cancels bass frequencies out so that I can rehearse new tunes for my gigs. It's pretty much a transcription tool. The bass tone I use for rehearsing is the same as what I use on the gig, which is an in-ear gig with no amps at all. I know EXACTLY the tone I need to have to get what I want on the gig, and I'm just not able to get there with the SL900. I had the bass cut all the way off last night, and tried boosting mids at 600 hz (which is too low) and 2.5khz (which is too high), and neither worked. The SL900 is definitely scooped in the upper mids, say around 1000 to 1500 hz it seems such that all articulation is lost. This is typical of that classic tube sound, and it works wonderfully for that. However, that's not been the tone I've gone for at all for a long time now.
What I love about the SL900 is that it has the all-tube feel to it. I'd rather have the upper-mid presence that allows more note definition though. I'm a bit surprised honestly at the number of Shuttle users who are saying they prefer the SL900 now. I think the Shuttle 9.0 is able to get close to the sound of the SL900 (without the tubey give of course), but the SL900 doesn't really seem able to get anywhere near the tone of the Shuttle 9.
I haven't made a final decision now. My heart is really torn a bit at the moment because just plugging into this thing and playing around by myself is a glorious feeling. It's sounds absolutely wonderful and warm. One of the most beautiful things I've heard in a long time, just like a db750. But alas, that tone just doesn't work on a gig for me. I'm afraid I'm going to be returning this soon, or putting it up for sale here.
Whatver happens, I'm glad I've experienced it. This is THE micro head to have, bar none, if you want that fat, tubey goodness that so many are always chasing. I just wish it was voiced a bit differently for my needs. No big deal.
What I love about the SL900 is that it has the all-tube feel to it. I'd rather have the upper-mid presence that allows more note definition though. I'm a bit surprised honestly at the number of Shuttle users who are saying they prefer the SL900 now. I think the Shuttle 9.0 is able to get close to the sound of the SL900 (without the tubey give of course), but the SL900 doesn't really seem able to get anywhere near the tone of the Shuttle 9.
I haven't made a final decision now. My heart is really torn a bit at the moment because just plugging into this thing and playing around by myself is a glorious feeling. It's sounds absolutely wonderful and warm. One of the most beautiful things I've heard in a long time, just like a db750. But alas, that tone just doesn't work on a gig for me. I'm afraid I'm going to be returning this soon, or putting it up for sale here.
Whatver happens, I'm glad I've experienced it. This is THE micro head to have, bar none, if you want that fat, tubey goodness that so many are always chasing. I just wish it was voiced a bit differently for my needs. No big deal.
Glad you finally got to taste the koolaid. Enjoy.
Ah, that's a shame... as it happens, as I've been marveling at how articulate it sounds compared to other amps I've owned recently.
Different strokes!
"Quote:
Originally Posted by KJung
I am about as giddy with the sound of this amp as with anything I've ever owned. That rare 'clean tube amp' tone that is round and warm and full, but still full range, bright if you want it to be, and with a beautiful treble extension (if you want it).
Don (LDS cabs) was over to check it out, and just kind of said 'whoa' when he heard it! He is all excited about hearing this head with both his sealed multi10 cabs, and also the 15/6 type builds he does. Hopefully we can get some clips up of those pairings down the road.
I originally bought this head to pair up with my recently acquired P Bass (a Nordy VP5 which is also a work of art IMO). I will be using this head in a MUCH wider range of gigs than I originally thought. I still have my beloved MB F500 for the more modern sort of tone, but the Streamliner will be an 'equal partner' (I'm sure much like those who are lucky enough to have a Shuttle and a Streamliner... different vibes that are both great in their own way).
Ken, Glad to hear! Now, hopefully, you can do a clip with a passive J ar just tell me your opinion. I know you kinda already told me what you thought but you didn't have the Streamliner anymore at that time. I have now raised the funds so I am really close to making a deal.
The goal is the tone I get from a '84 Walter Woods M100-8. It's difficult, at least for me, to describe. It's warm and round with a "blooming of the notes but with clarity. I can get it by cutting the Bass and treble knobs to 10:00, Mid flat, and both Bass and Treble switches on Boost. Walter thinks this kind of setting is on the edge of clipping the preamp section. That is why I can almost get a Tube kind of "Sag" out of it. Of course it doesn't have the power I need for a lot of gigs. Also, the power section must be involved because if I line out to a Shuttle 9.0 for power, it doesn't sound the same.
I realize, you and most others don't have this amp but you have experience with Walters' amps and just may know what I'm talking about. Thanks!
BTW, I'm probably going to buy one anyway but still researching
__________________
Mike "
My initial thoughts, with only a couple of hours time with the head, are that it absolutely nails the sound I get from the Walter Woods noted above plus does it even better! It's very rich with the "sag & bloom" of the notes like a tube rectified guitar amp! I havn't done any overdrive twiddling as it's not something I typically use. It also makes for a very "touch sensitive" feel like a good dynamic tube amp. The notes kinda jump out at you! Very good, unless your technique is not very good. It will reveal faults in technique.
So far, I've only played my '62 Jazz through it with my GB NeoX 112-T cab. Settings are:
Gain button=out
Gain= noon
Volume= 2 o'clock
Bass= 11
Mid=2 @220hz
Treble=noon
Gonna play with it most of the day today and gig with it this Saturday through an SWR goliath III 410 that I keep at the gig.
Originally Posted by KJung
I am about as giddy with the sound of this amp as with anything I've ever owned. That rare 'clean tube amp' tone that is round and warm and full, but still full range, bright if you want it to be, and with a beautiful treble extension (if you want it).
Don (LDS cabs) was over to check it out, and just kind of said 'whoa' when he heard it! He is all excited about hearing this head with both his sealed multi10 cabs, and also the 15/6 type builds he does. Hopefully we can get some clips up of those pairings down the road.
I originally bought this head to pair up with my recently acquired P Bass (a Nordy VP5 which is also a work of art IMO). I will be using this head in a MUCH wider range of gigs than I originally thought. I still have my beloved MB F500 for the more modern sort of tone, but the Streamliner will be an 'equal partner' (I'm sure much like those who are lucky enough to have a Shuttle and a Streamliner... different vibes that are both great in their own way).
Ken, Glad to hear! Now, hopefully, you can do a clip with a passive J ar just tell me your opinion. I know you kinda already told me what you thought but you didn't have the Streamliner anymore at that time. I have now raised the funds so I am really close to making a deal.
The goal is the tone I get from a '84 Walter Woods M100-8. It's difficult, at least for me, to describe. It's warm and round with a "blooming of the notes but with clarity. I can get it by cutting the Bass and treble knobs to 10:00, Mid flat, and both Bass and Treble switches on Boost. Walter thinks this kind of setting is on the edge of clipping the preamp section. That is why I can almost get a Tube kind of "Sag" out of it. Of course it doesn't have the power I need for a lot of gigs. Also, the power section must be involved because if I line out to a Shuttle 9.0 for power, it doesn't sound the same.
I realize, you and most others don't have this amp but you have experience with Walters' amps and just may know what I'm talking about. Thanks!
BTW, I'm probably going to buy one anyway but still researching
__________________
Mike "
My initial thoughts, with only a couple of hours time with the head, are that it absolutely nails the sound I get from the Walter Woods noted above plus does it even better! It's very rich with the "sag & bloom" of the notes like a tube rectified guitar amp! I havn't done any overdrive twiddling as it's not something I typically use. It also makes for a very "touch sensitive" feel like a good dynamic tube amp. The notes kinda jump out at you! Very good, unless your technique is not very good. It will reveal faults in technique.
So far, I've only played my '62 Jazz through it with my GB NeoX 112-T cab. Settings are:
Gain button=out
Gain= noon
Volume= 2 o'clock
Bass= 11
Mid=2 @220hz
Treble=noon
Gonna play with it most of the day today and gig with it this Saturday through an SWR goliath III 410 that I keep at the gig.
I hope you actually try it on a gig before you decide! I do understand. I didn't really like the sound of my Shuttle 9.0 by itself, too clangy, modern, cold, etc. Still don't. In a band situation, it works just fine!
This makes sense. Those who dig the Shuttle a lot will most likely either not particularly like the Streamliner, or like me (with my primary gigging amp, the F500), will use the Streamliner for a specific purpose (for me, with my passive P).
I was not able to make the Shuttle 9 sound particularly like the Streamliner or vice versa.... which is a tribute to Genz's design... wouldn't make a lot of sense if both lines of amps were similar.
However, you hit the nail on the head, this amp to me is a 'better' DB750 or Mesa MPulse600.... better meaning much smaller, lighter, at least in the same volume universe, and that unique round low end BUT with MUCH better mid control and a very nicely voiced hi pass filter that doesn't let that big low end get in the way.
IMO there. This amp is NOT a Shuttle upgrade or whatever... very different thing.
Oldtimer said:
I have a clip of my Alleva-Coppolo J up on my Youtube channel. I have the preamp engaged, but the A-C circuit is quite 'passive sounding'. I think it sounds good, and if you are coming from the 'pre electracoustic' Walter Woods models, I'm prett sure you will like this a lot.... much closer to the earlier Woods (big, round, and a bit tubey sounding) than the more recent electracoustic models (which are almost the definition of clean solid state sound). IMO.
Nostatic:
Your eq approach is pretty much what I did last night> Either cut at the ~200 mid or boost at the ~600 point. Bass rolled back to about 9 o'clock, treble boosted to about 1 oclcok.
Eublet: like you, not necessarily digging the head at this point, for the same "it punches, but doesn't cut" feeling. My Walkabout has never left me feeling that way.
If my Sadowsky JJ with fresh steels can't be made to cut, it ain't gonna happen.
I'm probably a really short term owner, based on last night. I won't rush to judgment, but, I don't believe we're gonna bond at this point. I'll be open-minded for a few more gigs.
Your eq approach is pretty much what I did last night> Either cut at the ~200 mid or boost at the ~600 point. Bass rolled back to about 9 o'clock, treble boosted to about 1 oclcok.
Eublet: like you, not necessarily digging the head at this point, for the same "it punches, but doesn't cut" feeling. My Walkabout has never left me feeling that way.
If my Sadowsky JJ with fresh steels can't be made to cut, it ain't gonna happen.
I'm probably a really short term owner, based on last night. I won't rush to judgment, but, I don't believe we're gonna bond at this point. I'll be open-minded for a few more gigs.
+1...
One of the things I really liked about this amp when I gigged it over the weekend is the way it made it's presence felt. The notes were distinct and articulate without relying on volume, or 'cutting through the mix'.
They were just THERE, supporting the band. That's a good thing for me, but I recognise it won't be appreciated by everyone.
I don't know how this applies to an actual acoustic upright bass, but when using my BSX 5 String EUB I greatly prefer my new Shuttle 6.0-210T combo for its generally brighter and, to my ears, 'flatter' tonal profile. The Streamliner was a little too dark for this bass no matter what I did to it, whereas the Shuttle combo just sounded perfect set flat. I have an Upright being built by Upton and I suspect I"ll use the combo for it as well. Definitely bitten hard by the Genz Benz bug, almost as bad as when I first got a Sadowsky in my hands!!!
Yeah, this has always been kind of my issue with a lot of amps with these tonal personalities, and Ed does really good job of showing this when he does that quick cut back and forth between the SL900 and S9. You can hear the bottom tighten up and the upper mids cutting through better right away on the S9.
I'm also convinced this is the reason why they sound so particularly great with P basses... there seems to be a synergy there between the earthy mids of a P bass and tube amps with these personalities (I generally feel the same way about Ampeg SVT's, tho I definitely like what I've heard from the SL900 WAY better so far.)
That said, I do think this means it would be a really great thing for them to add a fourth point to the mid controls. I do think something around 1K would be really great to be able to control, especially since I kind of agree with you on where you hear the mid dip on these. Doesn't seem to be a control to kinda' specifically even that out from what I've heard so far.
Anyway... FWIW, I haven't played one yet myself. Grain of salt and all... just from what I've read here and heard on youtube.
The mid has a 2K setting, which kind of does what you are talking about, but that just isn't what this amp is about. I would think that a player with your tone goals would be served much better by a Shuttle or GK or Markbass... i.e., the brighter/tighter thing, and of course, when I'm not using my P Bass, I'll still be gigging my F500.
However, for those, as you point out, who love the sound of any bass through the Mesa MPulse stuff, the SVT, the DB750, this head is definitely at least worth a listen. To me, it is by far 'the best of that batch' at least for clean tone at high volumes.
Edit: If you listen to my J bass youtube clip, that has the 2K boosted a bit, and run clean.. it sounds quite good, but still different from the Shuttle 9 or F500.
Don't get me wrong, although they're similar I still love the SL900 and it has enough extra girth to make it my primary and my S9 my secondary. I have no regrets about having both.
It's kinda like my review of the Thunderchild and LDS cabs with the SL900 in Part IV, very similar but enough difference to prefer one over the other. And glad to have both!
Ken,
YOU have 'hit the nail on the head' with the section that I underlined in your response above! Those are my observations almost to a 'T'.
Per your suggestion, I am going to give the Bergantino AE212 a try with the SL900 (if my local 'purveyor of all things bass' still has the AE212 in-stock at the end of this week).
If you were using that Sadowsky J and your 410UL, +1 that would not be a beautiful thing, and this head would probably not reallyl be optimum there. Really bad mix and match there IMO (just like with a DB750)
+1 This head 'does what it does' very well. If you like Paul Turner's tone, buy one! If you like it tight and quick and bright and/or sizzly.... don't (Genz has those tone goals covered with the Shuttle line of amps)
Eublet: I 100% understand where you are coming from. My advice, you have to do some EQ things you would NEVER normally have to do. With my Sterling I have to turn down my bass, the SL bass to 9 o'clock & boost my mids etc to get a hi-fi Shuttle tone but it still has tube warmth to it.
Heres my problem with that:
If I have to change my EQ drastically at my bass to get the hi fi shuttle tone out of my backline, imagine what the tone of that bass is to the board through the direct out? SUPER harsh!!! It will be VERY hard to have both a good shuttle tone from your Streamliner & a warm pre EQ tone to the house. That is a major problem for direct out users with certain basses looking for a certain tone. This amp may NOT be the right one for you
I usually boost mids to cut during gigs when that would sound like crap in my bedroom. I'm going to have to find a way to send a warm tone to the house (knowing the EQ on the bass that will get that) through the direct out & do some EXTREME EQ changes at the streamliner. Extreme EQ changes at the bass is not good for the house
This is why I'll need to test the difference in Pre-EQ direct out tone vs the cab tone extensively.
If that has the long throws in it, with no mid driver, +1 that also would be kind of an iffy matchup....
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