GenzBenz Streamliner Pt 8...

[KJung]

^^^
I can't imagine that... my goodness... loud...

The most popular fEArful cab is a 15/6/1, and is high power handling and 8ohms. So, the 400 watts or so that the Streamliner900 pumps into it is actually below what that mighty cab can handle.

However, I find the 900 at 8ohms to pound quite nicely with a single 15/6. However, at 8ohms, that cab can actually take a bit more!

 

[agedhorse]

The most popular fEArful cab is a 15/6/1, and is high power handling and 8ohms. So, the 400 watts or so that the Streamliner900 pumps into it is actually below what that mighty cab can handle.

However, I find the 900 at 8ohms to pound quite nicely with a single 15/6. However, at 8ohms, that cab can actually take a bit more!

Note that the SL-900 is >500 watts RMS (not peak) at 8 ohms. This is continuous (all day long) with a guaranteed >33% duty cycle. IMO, a good match for the cabinet.

 

[thisSNsucks]

Question: what is your favorite lightweight cab for your streamliner?

Requirements is that it must be 4ohm, have casters, and weigh no more than 65lbs.

I'm thinking an accugroove el whappo jr, but am curious about possible other options.

 

[f.c.geil]

I think I need a Genz Benz!

If I'm posting in the wrong place, please tell me to shag off! I'll post elsewhere if more appropriate.

I’ve always played Ampeg heads, but have just gone through five in the last three months, and am now done with them (as you can imagine!). I am very interested in the Streamliner series (or maybe Shuttle?) heads, as I like multiple tube preamps (loved my SVT-3 Pros’ sound, but not the reliability). So, since I have nowhere nearby where I can try these before buying, I need some expert advice.

I play a variety of music, from P/W to Country to Motown to Classic Rock, with some occasional (not a priority) Punk and Death Metal. I use a modified Highway One Precision bass with DiMarzio Model P pickups and a SWR Goliath III (8ohm) 4x10. I play in decently large churches and medium size bars.

I need to know what the right head is for me. I'm sure there are tonal differences between the various Streamliners/Shuttles, what are they? Please feel free to ask for more information if needed to give me the best answer.

 

[boethius]

I think I need a Genz Benz!

If I'm posting in the wrong place, please tell me to shag off! I'll post elsewhere if more appropriate.

I've always played Ampeg heads, but have just gone through five in the last three months, and am now done with them (as you can imagine!). I am very interested in the Streamliner series (or maybe Shuttle?) heads, as I like multiple tube preamps (loved my SVT-3 Pros' sound, but not the reliability). So, since I have nowhere nearby where I can try these before buying, I need some expert advice.

I play a variety of music, from P/W to Country to Motown to Classic Rock, with some occasional (not a priority) Punk and Death Metal. I use a modified Highway One Precision bass with DiMarzio Model P pickups and a SWR Goliath III (8ohm) 4x10. I play in decently large churches and medium size bars.

I need to know what the right head is for me. I'm sure there are tonal differences between the various Streamliners/Shuttles, what are they? Please feel free to ask for more information if needed to give me the best answer.

Well, I've played Ampegs for 30 years or so, but always SVTs and SVT Pros. I just got rid of my last one that I've had for 20 years...I just can't carry them anymore...not due to sound or reliability, but my back. Most of what I have owned has been a pure tube head. I now have an STM 900. I've rolled the tubes as well and am blown away that 7 pounds can sound close to my SVTs. Granted it isn't as mid focused and you need to match the cab well (410 or 12 based cab with mid drivers that have a definitive mid bump). But it can go from pristine clean to nicely grinding to full on grit. I put a 5751 in V1 as most of what I play is fretless and I don't need the hard grit often, but it's there and sounds natural when needed.
Granted, this is my opinion and based on my experiences of retubing Ampegs, Marshall's and Mesas over the years. The max9.2 has a great parametric eq and can dial in a wide variety of tones easily...but I have to admit I've never been a fan of pure SS tone. It always sounds somewhat processed and like there is a digital discoloration to my ears, faint as it may be. Again, my opinion and my ears and coming from playing mostly fretless and having learned bass on an upright in a classical and jazz setting.

 

[Aussie Mark]

Question: what is your favorite lightweight cab for your streamliner?

Requirements is that it must be 4ohm, have casters, and weigh no more than 65lbs.

I'm thinking an accugroove el whappo jr, but am curious about possible other options.

My favourite 4 ohm small cab doesn't have casters, because it only weighs 35lbs - Epifani UL210.

 

[f.c.geil]

Well, I've played Ampegs for 30 years or so, but always SVTs and SVT Pros. I just got rid of my last one that I've had for 20 years...I just can't carry them anymore...not due to sound or reliability, but my back. Most of what I have owned has been a pure tube head. I now have an STM 900. I've rolled the tubes as well and am blown away that 7 pounds can sound close to my SVTs. Granted it isn't as mid focused and you need to match the cab well (410 or 12 based cab with mid drivers that have a definitive mid bump). But it can go from pristine clean to nicely grinding to full on grit. I put a 5751 in V1 as most of what I play is fretless and I don't need the hard grit often, but it's there and sounds natural when needed.
Granted, this is my opinion and based on my experiences of retubing Ampegs, Marshall's and Mesas over the years. The max9.2 has a great parametric eq and can dial in a wide variety of tones easily...but I have to admit I've never been a fan of pure SS tone. It always sounds somewhat processed and like there is a digital discoloration to my ears, faint as it may be. Again, my opinion and my ears and coming from playing mostly fretless and having learned bass on an upright in a classical and jazz setting.

Excellent, thanks! Is there any sonic difference (not counting volume) between the STM-900 and STM-600? I'm not sure I really need 900 watts, and hate to pay for more than I will use - if they sound the same. Has anyone A/B'd them, especially if recorded so I could actually hear the difference/similarity?

 

[Musicman20]

Excellent, thanks! Is there any sonic difference (not counting volume) between the STM-900 and STM-600? I'm not sure I really need 900 watts, and hate to pay for more than I will use - if they sound the same. Has anyone A/B'd them, especially if recorded so I could actually hear the difference/similarity?

IMO, watts are cheap, and I think again, IMO, the 900 has a slightly stronger resale in the UK. Not knocking the 600 one bit, but the power section of the 900 is truely 'huge' as in it will make you think you really are playing a 50-60lb full size tube amp.

The 600 would have easily covered my volume needs for my current band, but things change, and even though Im taking a break from hardcore/punk/playing with a plectrum, I'll no doubt want to get back into it again at some point. The 900 would absolutely slay in that setting.

On the subject of the Ampeg's vs GB Streamliner, I would not hesitate for one moment to buy a GB over Ampeg. Even if the reason is purely for reliability and customer service (but that's only one part of it). The Streamliner sounds fantastic.

 

[Tunaman]

My favourite 4 ohm small cab doesn't have casters, because it only weighs 35lbs - Epifani UL210.

Boy did this picture REALLY make me reconsider needing a 610

 

[f.c.geil]

IMO, watts are cheap, and I think again, IMO, the 900 has a slightly stronger resale in the UK. Not knocking the 600 one bit, but the power section of the 900 is truely 'huge' as in it will make you think you really are playing a 50-60lb full size tube amp.

The 600 would have easily covered my volume needs for my current band, but things change, and even though Im taking a break from hardcore/punk/playing with a plectrum, I'll no doubt want to get back into it again at some point. The 900 would absolutely slay in that setting.

On the subject of the Ampeg's vs GB Streamliner, I would not hesitate for one moment to buy a GB over Ampeg. Even if the reason is purely for reliability and customer service (but that's only one part of it). The Streamliner sounds fantastic.

Thanks, good point. As I look more, the price difference really is negligible. That only leaves the question about sonic differences. I hear that a lot of people prefer the STM-600 due to the way it sounds, but have never been able to find out exactly what that difference is.

 

[Musicman20]

Thanks, good point. As I look more, the price difference really is negligible. That only leaves the question about sonic differences. I hear that a lot of people prefer the STM-600 due to the way it sounds, but have never been able to find out exactly what that difference is.

I've not heard them side by side, but I imagine the 900 stays cleaner in the higher volumes, (as in when you are really pushing the amp, the unique limiting kicks in earlier on the 600 which some may prefer).

 

[f.c.geil]

That makes sense, Musicman, thanks.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Thanks, good point. As I look more, the price difference really is negligible. That only leaves the question about sonic differences. I hear that a lot of people prefer the STM-600 due to the way it sounds, but have never been able to find out exactly what that difference is.

Dude, I think you may have fallen prey to all the different acronyms that people throw around for the various Genz lines.

Been following these threads since the get-go, and have only seen one person express a preference for the Streamliner 600 over the 900. The two Streamliners are voiced the same, with the only difference being that one has enough power, and the other has MORE than enough. They both sound very thick and round, and have a mild (roughly 9dB) scoop that tames the upper mids.

The big deal has mostly been in regards to the Streamliner vs the Shuttle and Shuttle Max lines.

People who want a fast, modern-sounding amp with lots of upper-mid grind tend to find the Streamliner too rounded, and too "polite". Those guys are better served by the Shuttle series, where there IS a difference between the 600 and 900 watt versions. Both amp's sound very quick and modern, but The 600 has a higher corner frequency on the High Pass Filter, which makes it sound tighter, and is easier on small cabs. Meanwhile, the 900 has a lower HPF, which gives it more booty down low, but begs for higher-power (typically large) cabs.

Thwre's another group that likes the warmth of the Streamliner, but need more flexibility. Some are doublers, all are control freaks. These guys tend to go for the Shuttle Max, which has extra bands of EQ, plus independent FET and tube channels which are footswitchable and blend able, as well as adjustable depth controls for the three contour buttons. The Max doesn't sound as thick and old-school as the Streamliner, but it's endlessly tweakable, and can get both darker and warmer than the Streamliner. There's a new 9.2 version of the Max, which has the SMax front end but the same power stage and power management circuit as the Streamliner 900. This should provide more give and sag at high volumes (compared to the SMax 600 & 1200).

EDIT: Cab choice is critical, particularly in regard to the less comprehensive EQ options on the Shuttle and Streamliner.

The Streamliner is aces for smoothing out upper mid-heavy cabs that might sound edgy with the Shuttle. Especially if they have a tight low end, like the G-K Neos, or Bergantino AE210. On the other hand, it's not so great with scooped, bass-heavy cabs.

 

[John D Harris]

Question: what is your favorite lightweight cab for your streamliner?

Requirements is that it must be 4ohm, have casters, and weigh no more than 65lbs.

I'm thinking an accugroove el whappo jr, but am curious about possible other options.

Don't have experience with them, but I'd strongly suggest that you try a Genz Neox-212T.

They have lean-back wheels instead of casters, but I think it meets all your other requirements.
Also, depending on your tone goals, it should be a good tonal match with the Streamliner -- tight lows, strong mids, & smooth treble -- what's not to love?

 

[f.c.geil]

Dude, I think you may have fallen prey to all the different acronyms that people throw around for the various Genz lines.

Been following these threads since the get-go, and have only seen one person express a preference for the Streamliner 600 over the 900. The two Streamliners are voiced the same, with the only difference being that one has enough power, and the other has MORE than enough. They both sound very thick and round, and have a mild (roughly 9dB) scoop that tames the upper mids.

The big deal has mostly been in regards to the Streamliner vs the Shuttle and Shuttle Max lines.

People who want a fast, modern-sounding amp with lots of upper-mid grind tend to find the Streamliner too rounded, and too "polite". Those guys are better served by the Shuttle series, where there IS a difference between the 600 and 900 watt versions. Both amp's sound very quick and modern, but The 600 has a higher corner frequency on the High Pass Filter, which makes it sound tighter, and is easier on small cabs. Meanwhile, the 900 has a lower HPF, which gives it more booty down low, but begs for higher-power (typically large) cabs.

Thwre's another group that likes the warmth of the Streamliner, but need more flexibility. Some are doublers, all are control freaks. These guys tend to go for the Shuttle Max, which has extra bands of EQ, plus independent FET and tube channels which are footswitchable and blend able, as well as adjustable depth controls for the three contour buttons. The Max doesn't sound as thick and old-school as the Streamliner, but it's endlessly tweakable, and can get both darker and warmer than the Streamliner. There's a new 9.2 version of the Max, which has the SMax front end but the same power stage and power management circuit as the Streamliner 900. This should provide more give and sag at high volumes (compared to the SMax 600 & 1200).

Thanks for clearing that up. I watched Ed Friedland's video, and did, indeed, get mixed up between the Shuttle and Streamliner. Thanks again.

 

[blowinblue]

About a week ago I took delivery of a brand new STM-600. My first impression is that it reminds me of an Ampeg V-4B. This amp is a keeper. I absolutely love it. It will make a great addition to my arsenal. Figured it wouldn’t hurt to have a backup so I ordered a brand new STM-900. The 900 arrived yesterday.

Not sure what’s going on but maybe you Streamliner folks can help. This particular 900 has an amazing amount of hiss. It seems like it has much more treble content and overall volume than my 600, as well. I set both amps up in a side by side comparison. Same bass, same settings on bass, same 4x10 with tweeter cab, same settings on both amps. All knobs set at noon, mid-freq select on 600 Hz, input pad button in. Yes, I know that this is not a ‘flat’ setting but it is an easy reference point between the two amps.

I would expect that the 900 would have more volume than the 600 at identical settings but not way more hiss and treble content. Even with the input pad out on the 900, it has more hiss than the 600 with its input pad pushed in. My first thought is a bad or ‘shaken up during transit’ tube. Or maybe this is normal for the 900. What do you think?

M. M.

 

[mwbonsall]

My 900 is dead quiet, unless I boost the gain and highs to the extreme. You may have a bad tube.

Mark

 

[agedhorse]

About a week ago I took delivery of a brand new STM-600. My first impression is that it reminds me of an Ampeg V-4B. This amp is a keeper. I absolutely love it. It will make a great addition to my arsenal. Figured it wouldn’t hurt to have a backup so I ordered a brand new STM-900. The 900 arrived yesterday.

Not sure what’s going on but maybe you Streamliner folks can help. This particular 900 has an amazing amount of hiss. It seems like it has much more treble content and overall volume than my 600, as well. I set both amps up in a side by side comparison. Same bass, same settings on bass, same 4x10 with tweeter cab, same settings on both amps. All knobs set at noon, mid-freq select on 600 Hz, input pad button in. Yes, I know that this is not a ‘flat’ setting but it is an easy reference point between the two amps.

I would expect that the 900 would have more volume than the 600 at identical settings but not way more hiss and treble content. Even with the input pad out on the 900, it has more hiss than the 600 with its input pad pushed in. My first thought is a bad or ‘shaken up during transit’ tube. Or maybe this is normal for the 900. What do you think?

M. M.

There should be about 2.6dB more hiss on the 900 because of overall gain. All controls must be set identical between units.

Try this, turn down the input gain down on both and see if gains normalize. If so, the problem is liklely to be a bad V1 tube. If no difference, try turning down the channel volume. If the hiss normalizes, then it's likely to be a V2 tube problem and if the master volume normalizes it, it's likely to be a V3 problem. This is not exact since there is some gain sharing but will help pinpoint the issue. You can give Jeff or Scott a call at the factory after the holidays and we'll get it sorted out. You are testing on identical cabinets right, and not 2 different cabinets with different tweeter sensitivities???

 

[blowinblue]

There should be about 2.6dB more hiss on the 900 because of overall gain. All controls must be set identical between units.

Try this, turn down the input gain down on both and see if gains normalize. If so, the problem is likely to be a bad V1 tube. If no difference, try turning down the channel volume. If the hiss normalizes, then it's likely to be a V2 tube problem and if the master volume normalizes it, it's likely to be a V3 problem. This is not exact since there is some gain sharing but will help pinpoint the issue. You can give Jeff or Scott a call at the factory after the holidays and we'll get it sorted out. You are testing on identical cabinets right, and not 2 different cabinets with different tweeter sensitivities???

Thanks for the great customer service. I will try your tube rolling suggestions. I have a couple of new tubes sitting around. All controls were/will be set identical between units. I am testing with one cab and swapping the other end of the speaker cable between amps. The only variable is the amp (600 vs. 900).

M. M.

 

[f.c.geil]

I have to say that I am very impressed with the level of customer support GB gives. I've rarely heard of a corporate development engineer frequenting a forum (Paul C. Buff is another one) in order to shortstop customer issues. This is absolutely phenomenal customer support! Thank you, GB and AgedHorse!