Double Bass German Bow for German Music

[Steve Freides]

OK, I know this is a bit stooopid, but I feel like asking anyway - would anyone bring out a German bow for Beethoven and a French bow for Debussy?

There was a time when American trumpeters played piston valve trumpets exclusively and European trumpeters played rotary trumpets. Now, it's in vogue for American trumpeters to use a rotary trumpet on 19th century European music - sort of the period instrument thing brought to Romantic music as I understand it.

Other instruments have similar things but not quite the same, at least that I know about, e.g., the Vienna orchestras play Vienna horns, which are single F horns with piston valves, while everyone else plays a double horn with rotary valves. (Yes, I know people play triples and single Bb and whatever else, trying not to make this more complicated than I've already made it.)

Does anyone even consider playing German music with a German bow and bow hold and French music with a French bow and grip? I happen to be at a place where I can do both with relatively the same facility, coming from German and now learning French. And I'm going to play Beethoven 5 with the local community orchestra in a few weeks, first rehearsal next Tuesday.

Pros to doing this? The above mentioned stab at authenticity, and a chance to keep my German bowing from getting stale.

Cons? My best German bow isn't as good as my best French bow, and I really am trying to get better at French so the practice bowing French would be good for me.

My playing is nothing to write home about in either case but it should be up to the task at hand with either bow in my, uh, hand.

BTW, this is my first post in this forum, I think, so please welcome me and be nice.

-S-

 

[neilG]

No. The names of the bows don't accurately describe their origin. They're just names. The German bow has been called the Butler bow in the past, named after a bass teacher. The French bow, I've read, was popularized by Bottesini, and Italian. Which is not to say that they don't sound different, which might be a reason to switch for some music.

 

[MikeCanada]

I don't think it's an entirely out in left field question, especially when compared to similar practices on other instruments. Along with the ones you have mentioned, there is the Oehler clarinet that is apparently used exclusively in Germany and Austria, some orchestras use gut strings exclusively where others frown upon them, and there are likely a few other examples before you start getting into early music and period ensembles that use "authentic" instruments/bows. While some examples are more noticeable than others and a lot of it is players/conductors/audiences hearing with their eyes more than their ears, I would argue that the Vienna horn section sound has much more to do with the players than the instruments. That's another argument for another day, but here's my take on bass bows.

I have never seen an entire orchestra section switch from one bow to the other for different regions of music. Here are a few thoughts as to why:

Most bassists learn one or the other. While just about everything can be accomplished with either bow, the subtle differences in execution would likely be lost if the player was less comfortable on the opposite bow. Spiccato comes to mind as a personal example. I can play several variations in the length of the notes and more on or off the string if required on German bow, but on French bow I only have one or two flavours of spiccato. If the point of switching is to highlight nuance, the entire section has to master both bows to a point where that can be done. Which would be particularly problematic because:

Most sections are currently exclusively French or German bow. There are a few professional exceptions, (Concertgebouw comes to mind) and a very select few professionals (Joel Quarrington has played German bow in exclusively French bow orchestras) but these are rare. There are many orchestras where you simply don't play the "wrong" bow and you would never win a seat with them for that reason alone. I am guessing this stems from:

Most teachers teach one or the other. You can do a masterclass with Rabbath on German bow but if you want to master his method, a big part of that is the French bow. Along the way to a professional career students often spend a significant amount of time studying one method under one teacher, and that is usually what they stick to.

Beyond most bassists/sections/teachers play one or the other, we also have to look at the rest of the equipment involved, and the rest of the string section. Double basses vary considerably from place to place with French, Italian, German, and English schools of making resulting in different sounding instruments. You could make a very convincing argument that switching instruments would have a larger impact on the sound that comes out of the section than switching bows and while not as dramatic, there are differences in the rest of the string instruments as well. The orchestra would sound very different if all German music was played on all German instruments. Violin, viola, and cello bows might not have two current versions, but there are significant variations between schools and periods as well. Getting even more specific, the bows Berlioz would have had in his orchestras would have been much different than Ravel, as would Beethoven to Strauss. The current versions of the German and French bows were still significantly changing up until about 100 years ago and modern makers are still improving/altering those designs. How we approach Beethoven 5 now is significantly different than they did in the 1970's, 1930's, or 1808 when it was premiered, regardless to the changes in equipment.

At some point, practical considerations also have to be made. We cannot expect bassists to have period appropriate French, English, Italian, German, American et al. bows let alone instruments, or for them to be comfortable enough with each of those tools to create music on a professional level with them. Likewise how you approach each of those instruments impacts the sound that comes out of them. Cost is also a significant factor as the most sought after modern bows can be expensive, and the price of a single pedigree bow often exceeds that of the entire required instrument variations for brass and woodwind players.

Sorry for the novel. Hopefully that gives you a few things to think about. I think it is an interesting thought experiment, but much more complex than just switching bows.

 

[PaulCannon]

OK, I know this is a bit stooopid, but I feel like asking anyway - would anyone bring out a German bow for Beethoven and a French bow for Debussy?

There are probably a few people who do this, yes. David Moore from the LA Philharmonic uses a specially-designed French/German hybrid which he can use with either hold. I'm not sure how often he switches to overhand playing in orchestra, nor under what circumstances he would do so.

However, there are quite a few reasons why it would be unnecessary. The modern German bow is a relatively new invention, and actually doesn't sound much like the bows which Mozart and Beethoven would have been familiar with. Perhaps by the time you get to Brahms some players would have cambered bows, but the majority were still using the old-fashioned meat hooks. If you're really looking for "authenticity", you'll need to track down a period-appropriate bow, gut strings, and possibly a fretted five-string for classical Viennese music.

I also don't think there's anything inherently "German" about German bows. Yes, it's what the majority of German players use. But the sounds they make and their musical tastes are a matter of culture and education, not just equipment. You can make all of the same sounds with a French bow if you know what to do, and vice versa.

I suppose I can also point out that I'm the bass player in a very prominent new music ensemble in Germany. Most of what we do are premieres, and most of those are from German/Austrian composers. I use a french bow, and I have yet to receive any kind of comment from the composers (though the question of five-string vs. extension comes up very often). They don't care, and I don't think Brahms or Beethoven would care either.

Most sections are currently exclusively French or German bow. There are a few professional exceptions, (Concertgebouw comes to mind) and a very select few professionals (Joel Quarrington has played German bow in exclusively French bow orchestras) but these are rare. There are many orchestras where you simply don't play the "wrong" bow and you would never win a seat with them for that reason alone.

This is false. Outside of a few European countries, nearly every professional orchestra is mixed. Any orchestra which uses screens at auditions is bound to be mixed unless they specifically forbid it (as Berlin does). Even in Germany and France, things are easing up. There are a few mixed orchestras in France and Germany, and I think that trend will continue. The younger bassists I've met here are far more open-minded.

 

[Steve Freides]

Will read all the replies thus far - thank you! - in detail later today, but for now, Mike, that's exactly my question - if the whole trumpet section switches, one of the reasons they do so is because it's not a horribly difficult switch to make. The French Horn sections don't switch because that's a harder transition to make, and the bowing transition is also a tough one or at least could be. So I guess I'm wondering, if all bassists were equally adept at both bow holds, could such a switch be musically justifiable and even desirable.

-S-

 

[MikeCanada]

I agree with Paul that young blood and more open-minded attitudes towards difference are starting to appear when it comes to mixed sections. This has changed a while ago in some cities, recently in others, and has yet to happen in a few more. I am sure Paul has much more knowledge of European orchestras than I do, but we have a few hold outs here in Canada where winning a seat with the "wrong" bow would be a challenge.

As per the difficulty of the switch vs. the benefits of doing so, I really don't know. We ask french horn players to play Wagner tuba which is not an easy switch, and I can only assume that piccolo trumpet, piccolo, contrabassoon and a few of the other instruments we ask wind and brass players to switch between (not to mention percussionists who have to play almost anything) are quite different from their standard counterparts and require various technique changes. In some cases the change in register is the reason, in others it is a colour change.

While the instrument itself likely helps with that change, a lot of it comes from the musician. It is possible to achieve a wide spectrum of sound with German or French bow, and switching bows without switching your musical approach is not going to have as much impact as switching from a conical to a cylindrical bore brass instrument. Switching between modern and various period/transitional bows would have a much larger impact, and I could see that being a demand made on orchestral bassists more than French and German. There are a few typically smaller orchestras out there that will have their string sections change the equipment they use for specific periods and regions of music, but even well respected Historically Informed Performance ensembles have their preferred tools and stick to them.

I think a switch to period instruments with the necessary accompanying knowledge and techniques could be musically justifiable. Desirability is rather subjective, so I will leave that open ended.