Getting a preamp?

[bobono]

I am considering buying a preamp- perhaps the new Mesa Subway preamp + - that I will use with a 25W GK amp for home practice. The amp's equalizer provide little in the way of sound adjustment, and I am looking for some flexibility. Would a pre-amp get me what I am looking for?

Thanks.

 

[BassmanPaul]

in my mind connecting a Subway pre to a 25W anything would be sacrilegious!

If you are going to pay that much for a pre-amp connect it to a big ass power amp and gig with it!

BTW Welcome to Talk Bass.

 

[Downunderwonder]

All that aside, yeah the Mayor of Manukau used to tow his concete mixer behind the mayoral Mercedes and driveways were made ok.

 

[pfschim]

it will probably work ok, and may give you a bit more EQ options, but it does seem kind of a mismatch to put such a preamp in front of what really amounts to a low power practice amp. Even though I'm sure it's a decent practice amp (being a GK), its overall components will not likely show off the EQ features of the pro level Mesa Subway pre very well.

 

[Kro]

The amp's equalizer provide little in the way of sound adjustment,

GKs are known to have fairly flexible preamps. I do wonder just how much of the issue is limited by the pre as opposed to the amp itself...

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

So I’m wondering what would happen here.
If the 25 watter doesn’t have an effects loop your only choice is to plug in at the instrument input.

If you have an effects loop you ought to be able to go straight to the power amp and bypass the internal pre.
If you don’t, you’re feeding your spiffy new Mesa pre through the pre on the 25 watter. Eh, is that a good idea?
You might have to figure out what settings on the 25 give you “flat” response on the internal pre. And I wouldn’t bet a nickel that setting everything to the center would be flat.
I guess what I’m saying, or asking, is... will the internal pre color your Mesa pre, and will the results be something less than expected?

 

[LiquidMidnight]

If you just want more EQ flexibility, a pedal EQ would make a lot more sense. As said above, you really need an FX loop to run an actaul pre. If you plug a pre into an amp's input, you are probably going to overdrive the front end with excessive gain.

 

[Kro]

As said above, you really need an FX loop to run an actaul pre.

Not really, I do it all the time into the front of my GK 1001RB that actually has an FX loop. I have my reasons, but I also know where to set my knobs to get scoped flat, not that that even matters all that much.

Any pre with a level should be able to be turned down enough to work with an instrument level input.

Again, my bigger concern would be if the combination would still be too constrained by the fact that the pre is being used with a 25w practice amp. Like hooking up a nitrous oxide system to a Power Wheels or something.

Your chain is always only as strong as its weakest link.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

If you like GK, see if the Plex is something that might be of interest.
They are made to work with the line of GK MBP (P for powered) I think they have one as small as a 12” 200 watts.
Maybe more than you are looking for right now.
But the GK MB, MBP and Plex are the ultimate in flexibility and scaleability.
And if you aren’t one who’s up on marrying pre A to amp B, the GK stuff is totally plug n play.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Not really, I do it all the time into the front of my GK 1001RB that actually has an FX loop. I have my reasons, but I also know where to set my knobs to get scoped flat, not that that even matters all that much.

Any pre with a level should be able to be turned down enough to work with an instrument level input.

Again, my bigger concern would be if the combination would still be too constrained by the fact that the pre is being used with a 25w practice amp. Like hooking up a nitrous oxide system to a Power Wheels or something.

I agree about being able to use a pre with the instrument input.
“Constrained” Yes. I think that’s a good word for it.
Jet engine on a skateboard. Dropping a ton of bricks on an anthill. Putting on cold wet socks. Eric and Ginger asking me to fill in for Bruce.

 

[bobono]

Thanks guys! I get the picture. Heeding your advice, I’m going to look for another gadget as a present for quitting smoking.

I’m inclined to get a midi keyboard now. But I am also curious about the EQ pedals LiquidMidnight suggested. Would a decent EQ pedal provide decent tonal flexibility with the tiny practice amp that I have? After the responses, I’m thinking that I can’t get much of anything with this amp.

 

[Kro]

Thanks guys! I get the picture. Heeding your advice, I’m going to look for another gadget as a present for quitting smoking.

Congrats!

Would a decent EQ pedal provide decent tonal flexibility with the tiny practice amp that I have?

It depends what kind of flexibility you're looking for. Maybe let's take a few steps back. What type of tone do you want, and how is it different than what you're able to achieve now?

If your tonal issues involve wanting more low end, then 25w 1x8 just might not be able to produce no matter what pre it has.

Now, if you're looking for drive, or a little special sauce that doesn't require much lows, then yeah, a pre might be fun.

What if your next gadget was a slightly more powerful amp?

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

It’s not that you can’t squeeze some usable, maybe even good tonal response from your small amp, and if it’s just for home practice that may be all you need/want. I think what folks are suggesting, is that things will be more limited. The amp won’t let you open up the possibilities of the other gear.
I think there is some psychoacoustic component of loudness that we perceive as being better and not just an amplified version of something less loud. Maybe this will help...

Why is it that headphones with such tiny speakers and not much power driving them sound so good, even with low bass? I think it has something to do with the closed or at least very near environment where the sound is contained. What happens when you remove the headphones but continue to try to listen to music from them? It sounds weak, tinny. Where did all of that full, rich sound go? It gets lost is the larger more open environment of the space between you and your headphones. The headphones weren’t designed to sound good under these conditions.

You might think of the same thing happening, though to a lesser degree, with a small amp. While they are designed for an open space, they are really not intended to work as well in that space as something larger. Now there are always exceptions, but they are usually quite expensive in comparison to something like a 100 watts/12” combo.

The bottom line is that your small amp may turn out to be great for what you want to do. The problem is that there are too many variables, some being subjective, that we don’t know about. I think the advice given by others is good in a general sense. Only you will be able to fill in the blanks on the specifics. Ugh... that’s just an overly wordy way of saying try for yourself and see if it fits your needs. If the small amp doesn’t cut it, then you can always go bigger.
It’s not like you’re dropping three grand on a big amp that everyone says is great, but you end up not liking.

Good luck and let us know how this turns out.

 

[ProfFrink]

If you want a present for quitting smoking (good for you!) a preamp pedal may be a bit disappointing.

I would consider some nice multi, as a nice shiny thing to play around with, like a Zoom B3n (which I currently use) or if you want to go higher- the Helixes seem to get a lot of love here.

Also I've got a lot of milage out of the Zoom MS-60B, and the older Line-6 multys (which are probably pretty cheap now...?)

If you want to go the pre-amp way - consider what is it that you really want out of it?

• Headphones out?
• Aux in (for playing along)
• Ability to record?
• etc.

For practice, I've found that I really tend to oscillate around the need to accentuate and attenuate the high-frequency spectrum: Accentuate when I want to work on proper fingering and muting technique, and attenuate when I just want to forget technique and just enjoy the sound. For accentuating: OD, Fuzz, etc will give you as much as you want of it. For attenuating, I've found that the most natural way is to add cab-sims. (I usually play via headphones though, so probably need more of it)

HTH

 

[smokinjoe]

I have a Roland KC-110 battery powered amp that's rated at 20W. It's a very clean sounding amp made for keys. Pretty good bass response for such a small box. I ended up getting a Tech 21 VT pedal to get more of a "big rig" sound. Worked out great! Is it the same as playing through a more powerful rig with bigger speakers? Of course not. But I have a tone that I can live with in a very portable package. And since everything is battery powered (lasts about 4 hours), I can play anywhere. Excellent with acoustic guitarists for patio gigs, busking or anywhere plugging in is an issue. And I have a killer DI for direct to FOH or if I'm using a less that stellar provided backline.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Before splashing out try putting the little amp right in the corner. Drop the bass knob to 9 o'clock before playing about with the others. Turn the ''contour'' off also.

The trick to staying a non smoker is never fall into the trap of the ''one'' cigarette. No such thing.

 

[ErnieD]

I too would suggest OP getting a multi-effects pedal to "toy around" with. But he may also discover some fun, useful sounds that may improve his amps' function; for him.

I bought the Zoom MS-60B a few years ago and just couldn't figure it out, so it stayed parked for a year or so. I would pick it up now and then but get frustrated I couldn't suss it out to use. I know, I should have handed it to my 9 year old nephew, he'd had it running in minutes I'm sure. I know, I'm old. And these multi-effects pedals are tiny computers that I did not have the patience to learn. But I now can use it at gigs with with 3 subtle presets I like and an empty one to run clean.

I also started using a few other single-effects pedals that also were parked for some years too. I can use them in our restaurant, med-volume, semi-acoustic band, as I took the time to get to know them better now. and I just bought a DarkGlass B3K V3 pedal and this pedal is giving me a great sound that I'm getting compliments on at gigs. And it's never set to "melt your face" tone as I don't want or need that.

Just thinking maybe OP would do better to start with a moderately priced multi-effects pedal that he may get more use out of for his use....or he may just want to toss it out the window like I almost did at first.

Ah, but it's never too late to learn.... and I learned that. peace y'all, e

 

[ErnieD]

OH and to be OT with OP. I have been eyeing that Mesa Preamp for some time now. I keep talking myself out of it as I feel the 5 micro-amps I already have can get close to that tone already. I think the DG B3K V2 pedal, has settled my grindy-G.A.S. for abit too.
But always wanted to try the Mesa D800 amp too and now the Mesa Walkabout 800, oooh yeah. drool

 

[bobono]

Thank you for your wonderful responses! I am very new here, and I am really liking the Talk Bass community.

I initially wanted a pre-amp because I thought it would give more flexibility with EQ. As I am quite dissatisfied with the 3 band EQ that I have on my GK MB 108. There is not any specific sound that I am looking for. I am very new to bass, and haven't developed that sort of tastes in bass yet. I am looking forward to explore the tonal capabilities that one can get out of the instrument by tweaking an EQ panel -- it's just that my amp isn't well suited for that kind of exploration.

As I have learnt from you guys, more EQ knobs does not equal to better sound. The parts of an amp that actually produce the sound define an amps tonal capabilities. A better EQ pane's capabilities would be wasted with an 8" speaker with 25 watts of power. So yeah, as Kro suggested getting a better amp, preferably one with an FX loop, seems like the way to go.

The thing is that I just got my amp a month ago. I'm going to ask the store if they would be willing to accept a return with the condition that I buy a more expensive amp. I doubt they'll accept, but it's worth a try I guess.

I'm thinking of getting either a GK MB 150S , a GK MB 115 or 112. I love the sound of the MB150S, but it is more expensive than the others. All of the amps have a 4 band EQ, and the 150S amp offers further filters. As I don't like effects so much, this seems like the best way to go.

If I can't get a new amp though, I'll just try to be happy with my practice amp.

Thanks again guys!

 

[Downunderwonder]

Thank you for your wonderful responses! I am very new here, and I am really liking the Talk Bass community.

I initially wanted a pre-amp because I thought it would give more flexibility with EQ. As I am quite dissatisfied with the 3 band EQ that I have on my GK MB 108. There is not any specific sound that I am looking for. I am very new to bass, and haven't developed that sort of tastes in bass yet. I am looking forward to explore the tonal capabilities that one can get out of the instrument by tweaking an EQ panel -- it's just that my amp isn't well suited for that kind of exploration.

As I have learnt from you guys, more EQ knobs does not equal to better sound. The parts of an amp that actually produce the sound define an amps tonal capabilities. A better EQ pane's capabilities would be wasted with an 8" speaker with 25 watts of power. So yeah, as Kro suggested getting a better amp, preferably one with an FX loop, seems like the way to go.

The thing is that I just got my amp a month ago. I'm going to ask the store if they would be willing to accept a return with the condition that I buy a more expensive amp. I doubt they'll accept, but it's worth a try I guess.

I'm thinking of getting either a GK Microbass Amp (12" with 150 w), or a GK MBP with 15" or 12" with 200w. I love the sound of the Microbass Amp, but it is more expensive than the others. All of the amps have a 4 band EQ, and the microbass amp offers further filters. As I don't like effects so much, this seems like the best way to go.

If I can't get a new amp though, I'll just try to be happy with my practice amp.

Thanks again guys!

They should give you a fairly good tradein if it's still mint condition and you buy big. Otherwise, not so much and you might want to keep it and get something gig worthy at a later stage. Savings from not smoking will accrue at a handy enough rate.