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Getting guitar players interested in groove

MtManiac

MtManiac

Mar 6, 2007
9,089
6,993
Nova Scotia
#1
Anybody else doing the "dad rock" thing and having trouble with guitar players and song selection?

For example - current band, I really want to do some older R&B and British blues rock tunes that carry a beat and a groove, as well as pretty much anything from the 70s-10's that can be adapted to two guitars and has a groove (like Daft Punk "Get Lucky, for example). The drummer and I can carry off our parts, but the guitar players are uninterested. The lead guy wants to do Kenny Wayne Shepherd "Blue On Black", Jimi Hendrix "Red House," and songs that are fun for lead guitar players. The Rhythm guitar player is a bit more on board with the "danceable" aspect of songs but really doesn't know a lot of danceable songs outside of the country genre. Sometimes too, when there's a part where the bass and drums are supposed to play together without guitars, he will copy the bass line on his guitar, which to me totally kills the groove.

I'd like to do some old classics, like Knock On Wood, Soul Man, some Spencer Davis Group tunes, etc and have the guitars figure out something to cover the horn parts. I think they would rock *and* be danceable.

Anybody else run into this? Anybody successfully manage through it?
 
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#2
I hear ya, gotta get the ladies dancing. If the ladies are there, the fellas will follow, then everyone buys more drinks, and you've got a lively crowd and a happy bar owner. #goodtimes

I've been on a big Chess/Chicago blues kick, and find I enjoy the uptempo danceable stuff a lot more than the slow gutbucket stuff. Can't go wrong with something like Elmore James' "Shake Your Moneymaker".
 
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#3
Remind them that they are there to play for the audience, not their own egos.

Red House may be fun for the guitarist to play, but other than the two blues fans in the audience (likely who will be guitarists, and will swear they can play it ten times better anyway, it will put people to sleep.

The line I've used to get gigs when I speak to band leaders? "I'd rather play good gigs with good musicians for good crowds than play the music I like in my garage". If your guitarist wants to play Red House, tell him to start booking gigs that will pay for that kind of music.
 
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#4
Most hobby guitarists are more interested in what I call guitar wankery than they are in being part of a synergistic musical team. For 90% of them, the rest of the band is there to provide a platform for endless (and usually poorly executed) soloing.

It's often said that guitar players are a dime a dozen. Good ones, though, not so much. I spent a couple of years trying to find a really good player for one of the bands I'm in. Finally found one, and I'm not about to let him go. Guitarists like that are actually quite rare.
 
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#5
That's unfortunately the problem with middle-aged guys that grew up in the guitar hero era is all they want to play is guitar hero stuff. You want to do some upbeat dance-able stuff and they want to play Robin Trower and blues. Because they're the "Lead Guitar" and it's all about them and their solos and you're just supposed to be their support band.

There's no fixing this find some new people that are like-minded.
 
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#7
MtManiac said:
Anybody else doing the "dad rock" thing and having trouble with guitar players and song selection?

For example - current band, I really want to do some older R&B and British blues rock tunes that carry a beat and a groove, as well as pretty much anything from the 70s-10's that can be adapted to two guitars and has a groove (like Daft Punk "Get Lucky, for example). The drummer and I can carry off our parts, but the guitar players are uninterested. The lead guy wants to do Kenny Wayne Shepherd "Blue On Black", Jimi Hendrix "Red House," and songs that are fun for lead guitar players. The Rhythm guitar player is a bit more on board with the "danceable" aspect of songs but really doesn't know a lot of danceable songs outside of the country genre. Sometimes too, when there's a part where the bass and drums are supposed to play together without guitars, he will copy the bass line on his guitar, which to me totally kills the groove.

I'd like to do some old classics, like Knock On Wood, Soul Man, some Spencer Davis Group tunes, etc and have the guitars figure out something to cover the horn parts. I think they would rock *and* be danceable.

Anybody else run into this? Anybody successfully manage through it?
Click to expand...

I dunno man - there's lots of room for some guitar wankery in Knock on Wood, Soul Man, etc. I've been playing with a guitarist off and on since I was 17. We play a lot of that type of stuff - 60's soul, Stax, etc and there's no shortage of guitar parts. Now, the solos are not searing KWS stuff - I always tell my guitarist he sounds pretty good playing that "Jimi Cropper" double-stop stuff! Gotta think more like a horn player than rock guitarist, though.

Get your guitarist to listen to Hendrix when he was backing up the Isley Brothers if he's short on ideas.
 
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#8
Nobody is going to a show to watch guitar solos. I barely even do that when it's someone who can really, really play, but if it's an average dad band, no way does anyone care other than the guitarist himself. If anything he should work on making solos half as long, but really melodic.

My suggestion is that you and whomever will drink your Kool-Aid (hopefully the BL if there is one?) get together and make up a list of about 100 "acceptable" songs. Then get the band members to each pick five from the list and start there.

My drummer means well and can really play, but damn, if the guy doesn't only suggest songs from 1970-1977 or anything with overwhelming drums. Early on we learned his suggestions were irrelevant at best and a terrible fit with our band at worst, and now he just gets a vote from "the list". :D
 
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#9
Somewhere on talkguitar, a lead guitarist is asking: how do I get my bassist into guitar hero stuff? It's all the boomers want to hear!

I was in a dad rock band once, and the setlist input desired of me was exactly diddly-squat. Not doing that again. Though the song selection was not so much the fault of the guitarist (my best buddy), but the singer. If a song was outside his very limited range or style, it was not going to be played ever.
 
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#11
I'm in a 5-piece. We solve this by having everyone pick a song they want to do. We learn 5 new songs and drop 5 old songs (one that have been getting the least response). Anyone in the band can veto a song, but you have to state why you are vetoing a song. Also, everyone in our band sings (it's a rule) at least one song. So, if you pick a song outside our lead singer's range, you better hope you can sing it. It is helpful that all the band members understand crowd enjoyment is more important than our own, but we do a good job of picking songs that both we and the crowd enjoy. We still throw in a blues/guitar wank friendly song once a set so the good people of the dancefloor can go get a beer and all the guitar players (owners) in the audience can get excited.
 
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#13
pretty easy, fire your guitarists and fill your band with a keys player and horns. problem solved. those instruments are stereotypically team players and not Lead Junkies like guitarists. i haven't played with a regular guitarist in over a decade and i've had a much more fulfilling time with music. also keys and horns denotes a "dance band". people see horns and hear horn lines and move. a nice hammond organ/fender rhodes/wurlitzer groove and people are shaking their moneymakers.

i haven't been able to find a guitarist able to play an E9 chord for 30 minutes straight ala james brown so i'm done with them.
 
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#19
Interestingly enough, most early Van Halen was very much groove oriented. That was Eddie's brilliance: He could absolutely BURN on the solos and play great rhythm as well.

KISS
Lots of Jimi's dancey stuff
The Kinks (Original or VH covers)
Def Leppard (along with most 80s stuff. Remember, those were DANCE tunes!!!)

Some other I can't think of, right now.

Good Luck! May the GROOVE be with you.
 
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#20
MtManiac said:
Anybody else doing the "dad rock" thing and having trouble with guitar players and song selection?

For example - current band, I really want to do some older R&B and British blues rock tunes that carry a beat and a groove, as well as pretty much anything from the 70s-10's that can be adapted to two guitars and has a groove (like Daft Punk "Get Lucky, for example). The drummer and I can carry off our parts, but the guitar players are uninterested. The lead guy wants to do Kenny Wayne Shepherd "Blue On Black", Jimi Hendrix "Red House," and songs that are fun for lead guitar players. The Rhythm guitar player is a bit more on board with the "danceable" aspect of songs but really doesn't know a lot of danceable songs outside of the country genre. Sometimes too, when there's a part where the bass and drums are supposed to play together without guitars, he will copy the bass line on his guitar, which to me totally kills the groove.

I'd like to do some old classics, like Knock On Wood, Soul Man, some Spencer Davis Group tunes, etc and have the guitars figure out something to cover the horn parts. I think they would rock *and* be danceable.

Anybody else run into this? Anybody successfully manage through it?
Click to expand...






Won't have them if they can't "groove"!
 

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