Getting guitar players interested in groove

[getbent]

more into Nile Rogers than Clapton or SRV.

Remember when Chic backed up Clapton for that Hendrix tribute album?

 

[LBS-bass]

The Peter Green era was a big yawn.

Yep. I don't get it. People around here do these blues jams, it always seems like an "inside" thing separating the cool kids from the dorks that they even know who Peter Green is, but when I listen back to that stuff I'm kinda happy to just leave it in the past.

I was never a big FM fan but they obviously had better success in all sorts of ways later on.

 

[mrcbass]

I'm with ya OP. I don't get it because the RnB stuff is what makes me want to move. The guitar wankery stuff doesn't do a thing for me as someone who might be looking to dance. Even on stage, my body just doesn't naturally respond to that stuff, so it's hard to create presence with it for me. Some of the stuff on your list is really fun to play (War Pigs, Good Times Bad Times) but a lot of that is pretty boring. I like a few good bluesy tunes, but couldn't take a high percentage of it as a bassist or a listener. Don't get me wrong - I'm a huge fan of Bonammasa, Clapton and SRV. But I find I don't last long jamming with their albums before getting bored.

I've yet to be in a cover band or cover project that had any interest in getting some groove going. I suspect it has to do with cover band's general perception that the Motown stuff is too old - "the young kids don't know this stuff", plus it really doesn't give a wanker what he needs to feed his ego. And the lead singer needs to actually have talent to do it right.

In a bit of a small world kind of thing, I just responded to a CL add from a drummer looking to put together a band to do this kind of stuff - I hope he can find the other players, because I'll be all over that opportunity. I suspect, you'll need to put your own project together if you want to find your groove.

 

[Robscott]

I'm in a 5-piece. We solve this by having everyone pick a song they want to do. We learn 5 new songs and drop 5 old songs (one that have been getting the least response). Anyone in the band can veto a song, but you have to state why you are vetoing a song. Also, everyone in our band sings (it's a rule) at least one song. So, if you pick a song outside our lead singer's range, you better hope you can sing it. It is helpful that all the band members understand crowd enjoyment is more important than our own, but we do a good job of picking songs that both we and the crowd enjoy. We still throw in a blues/guitar wank friendly song once a set so the good people of the dancefloor can go get a beer and all the guitar players (owners) in the audience can get excited.

Yep, pretty much what we do as well, maybe not so structured as that but the same kind of approach. Surprising how the setlist has developed over 2 years from dad rock to soul and funk. Pretty happy with that, although if you leave our guitarists alone in the rehearsal room for any length of time you're still gonna hear "City girls seem to grow up early....." before too long

 

[3Liter]

As a guitar player I'll offer this: it's a complete instrument. So I can grab my guitar and play and sing and don't need anyone else.

What I can't do is play a funk groove and sing over that. I need another person or many. Bass sucks by itself. Just not fun.

I can't speak for all my 6 string brethren but that's why I play what I play. I'm only NOW working on the dad rock solos since I started singing on day two.

I love playing with either people, I can do other parts and not carry the whole song. But I requires a different mindset. My guitar playing buddy in my band still hasn't quite figured that part out.

 

[Robscott]

I'm literally doing this off the top of my head because I don't have an active electronic list with me at the moment - our main guitarist has a heavily edited master printout that we use to spin off individual sets or just call them out as we're reading the crowd. So here's my attempt at a master list from memory. Songs listed are by the artist's rendition and not necessarily the actual authors:

Red House - Jimi Hendrix
Tightrope - Stevie Ray Vaughn
Five Long Years - Eric Clapton
White Room - Cream
The Bends - Radiohead
Cinnamon Girl - Neil Young
Badge - Cream
LaGrange - ZZ Top
Under The Bridge - Red Hot Chili Peppers
Good Time Bad Times - Led Zeppelin
Paranoid - Black Sabbath
White Wedding - Billy Idol
Everlong - Foo Fighters
Sunshine of Your Love - Cream
Maybelline - Chuck Berry
My Hero - Foo Fighters
War Pigs - Black Sabbath
Why Does Love Have to be So Sad - Derek and the Dominoes
Mississippi Queen - Mountain
Mary Jane's Last Dance - Tom Petty
Shooting Star - Bad Company
Roadhouse Blues - Doors
Crossroads - Cream
Just What I Needed - Cars
When You Were Young - Killers
Comfortably Numb - Pink Floyd
Scar Tissue - Red Hot Chili Peppers
The Seeker - Who
You Wreck Me - Tom Petty
Love Me Two Times - Doors
Creep - Radiohead
Down By the River - Neil Young
Leave My Little Girl Alone - Stevie Ray Vaughn
Hey Joe - Jimi Hendrix
Working Man - Rush
Sultans of Swing - Dire Straits

...I'm sure there are a few more that I just can't recall at the moment, but you get the basic idea.

Creep, there's a floor filler!

 

[Keger Jupit]

I used to be a rhythm guitarist, but I switched to bass 40 years ago cuz I got more work. Nobody wanted a groove rhythm guitarist, they wanted hot lead guitarists who played like Hendrix or Clapton. Sound familiar?

Sounds like a lot of bassists, just not me fortunately! I started on bass, & feel very fortunate for having done so! I do play guitar, but it was out of curiosity. It's fun too, but I like to make pant legs flap & booties shake

 

[mrcbass]

As a guitar player I'll offer this: it's a complete instrument. So I can grab my guitar and play and sing and don't need anyone else.

What I can't do is play a funk groove and sing over that. I need another person or many. Bass sucks by itself. Just not fun.

I can't speak for all my 6 string brethren but that's why I play what I play. I'm only NOW working on the dad rock solos since it started singing on day two.

I love playing with either people, I can do other parts and not carry the whole song. But I requires a different mindset. My guitar playing buddy in my band still hasn't quite figured that part out.

This is a very likely reason why guitarists don't gravitate towards the genre. Doesn't mean it can't be overcome for people who want to, but probably the genesis of OP's problem.

 

[Rib 13]

i love this thread....ya know why? I can't tell you how many arguments I got into with guitar players - many of which who believe that the entire musical universe revolves around the guitar -- about this exact subject in the past thirty years....People dont dance to guitar solos

No offense to anyone here but,when I gig, I dont play for musicians: I could care less what folded-arms guy (usually accompanied by talk-behind-his-hand guy) in the back of the room thinks of my band....Why is this a pet peeve to me? Many guitar players are not only prone to do this,but will make song choices based on it

 

[Frank77]

Remember when Chic backed up Clapton for that Hendrix tribute album?

Hmmm no, I wasn't aware of this album. To be honest, I don't see the plus-value of doing an album of covers that stay that close to the originals (might as well listen to Jimi!).

That said, JImi's stuff is in a different league, though : He's one of the few rockers that had songs with actual groove. Freedom? Spanish Castle Magic? Crosstown Traffic? Noooooow we're talkin'...

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Anybody else doing the "dad rock" thing and having trouble with guitar players and song selection?

For example - current band, I really want to do some older R&B and British blues rock tunes that carry a beat and a groove, as well as pretty much anything from the 70s-10's that can be adapted to two guitars and has a groove (like Daft Punk "Get Lucky, for example). The drummer and I can carry off our parts, but the guitar players are uninterested. The lead guy wants to do Kenny Wayne Shepherd "Blue On Black", Jimi Hendrix "Red House," and songs that are fun for lead guitar players. The Rhythm guitar player is a bit more on board with the "danceable" aspect of songs but really doesn't know a lot of danceable songs outside of the country genre. Sometimes too, when there's a part where the bass and drums are supposed to play together without guitars, he will copy the bass line on his guitar, which to me totally kills the groove.

I'd like to do some old classics, like Knock On Wood, Soul Man, some Spencer Davis Group tunes, etc and have the guitars figure out something to cover the horn parts. I think they would rock *and* be danceable.

Anybody else run into this? Anybody successfully manage through it?

Sounds like a "don't wanna" issue more so than a talent or coaching issue. If your guitarist can pull off Kenny Wayne Shepherd, he's definitely got the chops to cover Cropper. You got a play list issue, and the sooner you come to an agreement on that, the notes will follow.

One other bit of advice, record and review all practices. A recording is worth a thousand words.

 

[3Liter]

One other bit of advice, record and review all practices. A recording is worth a thousand words.

This is the part where my dad rock blues band falls short. I record everything, and listen to my parts. The other guys don't always listen. As I'm naming last night's rehearsal now, I wish my other guitar player would listen a little more critically as to whether his part is adding any value. I'd like to think I have a strong sense of the rhythm, but I find he's doing something that clashes with it. And the drummer is too busy. Way too busy. We never really sit down ad go through it. We should. I'm getting a little frustrated with this...I need to level with the guys to tighten this up a bit or I might end it. Then again, it's my only outlet right now.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Critical review of these recordings may or may not effect you fellow band mates, but it will effect you. It's the band's report card. Over the years I don't stick around with F level players.

Just an idea, instead you forcing everybody to listen to every note, pick out a few prime examples of items to work on, but always play more examples of things that were done well. Hopefully, there are many more good moments than bad, and those pats on the back prevent the reviews from being just a Gripe and B*tch session.

 

[MtManiac]

Sounds like a "don't wanna" issue more so than a talent or coaching issue. If your guitarist can pull off Kenny Wayne Shepherd, he's definitely got the chops to cover Cropper. You got a play list issue, and the sooner you come to an agreement on that, the notes will follow.

One other bit of advice, record and review all practices. A recording is worth a thousand words.

I totally agree - the guy's got chops, he's one of the best lead guitar players I've worked with. It's just his background - he's had gigs before, mostly in countryish bands. The rhythm player, same kind of thing - lots of country gigs, he listens to rock, but has had no exposure to playing classic R&B.

 

[Ekulati]

I brought up playing the song "play that funky music" to my band..I

This song makes a perfect mash into Macca's "Coming Up." Surprises the hell outta people but it works.

 

[BassGuyFL]

Another thing to consider is guys like this are not from a diverse musical background. Like the old joke goes we play both kinds of music, country and western. These guys are just rockers and that's it they don't have any background in any other types of music so they aren't simply aren't familiar with other styles. I have friends of mine that to this day still listen to nothing but the same hair metal they listen to in the 80s. They just simply don't want anything to do with listening to R&B or jazz or Country or anything outside of their small window of interest.

 

[lfmn16]

Anybody else doing the "dad rock" thing and having trouble with guitar players and song selection?

For example - current band, I really want to do some older R&B and British blues rock tunes that carry a beat and a groove, as well as pretty much anything from the 70s-10's that can be adapted to two guitars and has a groove (like Daft Punk "Get Lucky, for example). The drummer and I can carry off our parts, but the guitar players are uninterested. The lead guy wants to do Kenny Wayne Shepherd "Blue On Black", Jimi Hendrix "Red House," and songs that are fun for lead guitar players. The Rhythm guitar player is a bit more on board with the "danceable" aspect of songs but really doesn't know a lot of danceable songs outside of the country genre. Sometimes too, when there's a part where the bass and drums are supposed to play together without guitars, he will copy the bass line on his guitar, which to me totally kills the groove.

I'd like to do some old classics, like Knock On Wood, Soul Man, some Spencer Davis Group tunes, etc and have the guitars figure out something to cover the horn parts. I think they would rock *and* be danceable.

Anybody else run into this? Anybody successfully manage through it?

This is the reason I'm really clear upfront about what material I will and will not perform. I was in a band where I said before joining that I was interested in doing well known material that the audience would know and like. Everyone agreed. When someone pulled out some deep cut from a 40 year old album that no one knew from a band no one knew I'd just say, "That's not what I agreed to when I joined the band." One guy wanted to do some weird version of Johnny B. Goode that was unrecognizable except for the lyrics.

You should have agreement not only on the material you're going to perform, but on your song selection process.

 

[Bass Viking]

No offense to anyone here but,when I gig, I dont play for musicians: I could care less what folded-arms guy (usually accompanied by talk-behind-his-hand guy) in the back of the room thinks of my band....Why is this a pet peeve to me? Many guitar players are not only prone to do this,but will make song choices based on it

Folded-arms-guy. Love it!