Double Bass Getting more air in my bowing sound

[Les Fret]

Listening a lot to trumpet players like Arve Hendriksen lately who use a lot of air/breath along their normal sound. Terry Plumeri uses this in his bowing as well. What are the most important factors to get that air or bowhair 'noise' in your sound besides playing very lightly with less pressure of the bow and close to the neck? Want to able to have full control over the amount of air vs 'normal' sound.

 

[csrund]

Bow over the fingerboard (referred to as "sul tasto") with light pressure and more bow speed for a "breathier" sound. You can also roll the bow away from the string so that you're making contact with fewer hairs (see video link below). If you want to bring out overtones, try bowing closer to the bridge with light, long strokes. You can also take it to the extreme and play right at the bridge (called "sul ponticello") which produces some wild, acoustically acidic, phase-shifted effects (see second video link).





Cheers!

 

[Les Fret]

Thanks. Yes that are the things I have pointed out already in my post. That's pretty basic stuff I know already. Looking for some deeper insights for an even more breathier sound. Think this but then on bass:

 

[MikeCanada]

When it comes to technique, other than less pressure, faster bow strokes, over the fingerboard etc. that have already been mentioned, there aren't a whole lot of ways to create "air". While the bow does allow use to be very expressive, air/breath are difficult things to emulate, and in a lot of contexts strings are used to take advantage of the fact that we don't need to breathe.

Other than technique, experiment with your rosin and hair choices. Bass rosins, especially stuff like Pops or anything with "soft" in the name are designed to grab and bite. Even the medium-hard bass rosins tend to be designed with the intent of a focused and direct sound, which is most often desired in an orchestra. I often use cello/upper string rosin for non-orchestral playing as it has less bite to it and tends to "sing" more. Ask your bow maker/shop what they have available for hair options as well. Some carry just black and white, but others will do salt and pepper, or some of the other varieties as well. There is a spectrum between black and white, and you might find that instead of one extreme or the other, something in the middle is more what you are looking for.

 

[csrund]

Perhaps you could experiment with left hand technique as well. That's what comes to mind listening to the audio you've posted. Try some variations in pressure against the string and little or no vibrato.

 

[bejoyous]

Arve has a pretty unusual trumpet sound. I listened to a few tunes on youtube. I think microphone placement, sound production and half-stopping the valves contributes to much of the airy sound.

 

[Les Fret]

Really think the sound of Arve Hendriksen has more to do with playing technique than anything else. Some trumpet players have studied hard to get that breathing sound and how to control it in perfection. It is their specialty.

When it comes to technique, other than less pressure, faster bow strokes, over the fingerboard etc. that have already been mentioned, there aren't a whole lot of ways to create "air". While the bow does allow use to be very expressive, air/breath are difficult things to emulate, and in a lot of contexts strings are used to take advantage of the fact that we don't need to breathe.

Other than technique, experiment with your rosin and hair choices. Bass rosins, especially stuff like Pops or anything with "soft" in the name are designed to grab and bite. Even the medium-hard bass rosins tend to be designed with the intent of a focused and direct sound, which is most often desired in an orchestra.

Good points! About the first part: that's what I thought but was hoping for some 'secret' things or new insights that I didn't know or didn't think of myself.

Second part: the problem with this is that you don't want that airy sound all the time. You want to be able to get it in special situations and than go to 'normal' playing in the same piece/song. Using another rosin will change the overall sound. I want to be able to totally control the amount of 'air' just like those trumpet players do.

 

[David Potts]

Perhaps your questions would be better directed to Patrick Neher? Or one of the other acclaimed soloists (Bradetich, Karr, McTier, etc.) who have each spent years exploring the combinations of bow weight, bow speed and contact point to create an individual palette of colours.

In theory, if the other smaller strings can do it so should we?

Happy hunting!

DP

 

[MikeCanada]

I would love the chance to change rosin or hair mid song, or at least mid show. Since I have had almost every colour of hair in my bows and I've played around with a few different rosins, there are moments where I had the sound I am currently looking for a year ago when that bow had ____ hair and ____ rosin. Other than my recitals at school and during the off season I really don't have a chance to mess with those things too much, because most of my arco playing is orchestral work.

You can experiment with less fundamental/more overtones in your sound, and the variety of sounds you can get right around when you lose the fundamental. That skating/on top of instead of into the string sound might help you get closer to what you are looking for, or be an interesting addition to your palate.

 

[Les Fret]

Other than my recitals at school and during the off season I really don't have a chance to mess with those things too much, because most of my arco playing is orchestral work.

You can experiment with less fundamental/more overtones in your sound, and the variety of sounds you can get right around when you lose the fundamental. That skating/on top of instead of into the string sound might help you get closer to what you are looking for, or be an interesting addition to your palate.

Yes I don't play any orchestral stuff anymore (it is not my main interest) so that gives me more room to experiment I guess.
And you are correct in the second part. That are some nice things to explore and important to get full control of.

Discovered some nice things yesterday while trying to get more 'air'.
1) when bowing really slow you sometimes can get more 'noise/air'.
2) Also experimented with bowing with the stick. Got some good results bowing by placing the stick and the hairs flat on the string so both touch the string . Don't try this with your expensive bow though because it will damage the stick!! I tried it with a cheap spare bow that I don't use anymore.
3) Also experimented with diagonal bowing. Placing the bow at a 45 degree angle on the string and holding the bow different in my hand.

I am having fun!

 

[DoubleBassBass]

I love the airy tone you can get dropping the hand in a sweeping downward motion towards the bridge as you bow i.e. works well with a super light light string contact, reduced bow hair and fast bow speed ( no surprise there), sliding/lifting off at the end. The bow strokes the length of the string as it gently rolls it. Its a technique I was fascinated by watching the single bass player in a small touring orchestra playing some really exposed tender moments in the opera Aida.

 

[Les Fret]

I love the airy tone you can get dropping the hand in a sweeping downward motion towards the bridge as you bow i.e. works well with a super light light string contact, reduced bow hair and fast bow speed ( no surprise there), sliding/lifting off at the end.

you mean sliding/sweeping the hairs across the string from neck to bridge while still bowing? do you have an example of this technique?

 

[DoubleBassBass]

Yes exactly that. Its quite easy to get the idea by just sliding the bow down the length of the string without even rolling the string ( i.e. no up bow, no down bow just a vertical slide of the bow down the string). It may seem a peculiar concept not to pull the bow across the string in the time honoured way but this technique produces a really really faint 'breath' of a note (especially if you lift off the bow at the end). You can then add a some draw of the bow to get more volume, and pay around with slow speeds, pressure etc but thats the principle. Happy experimenting!