I think thats part of how they get such good tone, the top end comes off as so sparkly and clear!
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Getting that Jimmy Johnson sound
- Thread starter Paul C.
- Start date
This is very interesting to me as I'm in the midst of 'discovering' Alembics. I assumed the Alembic sound was that modern-super-sustain Return-to-Forever type of sound. I have an Epic 6 and a Signature 5. The Signature 5 is most surprising. I expected it to do modern tones and have lots of adjustments on the preamp. I couldn't have been more wrong.
It's really like a Shelby Cobra. It's built to do one or two things, and do them better than anyone. It has a lot less tone shaping that other boutique basses - it really has a couple of sounds and that's it. But the sound it has is deep, strong, growly and clear...maybe more so than any other bass I've tried. It's sounds like you've doubled your stage rig. But it's beyond that. I did an all day in a fine studio yesterday and several stage shows in the last week. It's making my other boutique basses sound anemic. A scary thought. Yes, it's silly expensive and very heavy in weight. But that sound might be worth it (good used deals out there). Still evaluating though...
Here's my fantasy - the classic Alemic design, which the Signature shares, is very much like a Fender...don't laugh - here's what I mean. Back in the day, there was FENDER. The Alembic founders said, let's do something completely different (driven to that fact by several notable players). So they created a whole nuther animal - very different from what Fender did. Since that time, many moons ago, a lot has changed and morphed. But Alembic's roots are old and deep and equally classic.
Jimmy's Alembics, are great basses.
More like $10,000. a pop.
But it all Jimmy's hands and soul.
If seen him play other basses.
And he sounds the same.
Like Jimmy.
Jimmy's Alembics, are great basses.
More like $10,000. a pop.
But it all Jimmy's hands and soul.
If seen him play other basses.
And he sounds the same.
Like Jimmy.
Agreed. Some people just have that kind of touch. Most don't.
I'm extremely surprised that you find that your Signature only has a couple of tones in it. On most boutique basses you can add/subtract bass, middle and treble but you're basically stuck with the sound beyond that. The Alembic filters aren't like that at all, and allow you to subtlely manipulate your sound way beyond the bass/middle/treble thing (what you do always have however is the core Alembic sound, which as you say is pure, clear and growly).
After saying that many people don't like to take the time to do that (I've owned my current one for nearly 4 years and am still discovering new sounds), and some just plain don't get on with them. I've never had or played another bass with the tone shaping ability of a filter-equipped Alembic, but I guess it depends how you like to adjust your sound. I don't tend to have a great deal of time for 3-band eqs and the like (although my Sei does have one) as I want to have the facility to adjust the nature of the tone itself, not just add or subtract bass, middle or treble; I can do that with the most basic amp in the world.
I agree with you about the quality though, and the fact that they generally make other boutiques sound anaemic. My Alembics past and present have pretty near spoiled me for everything else. Time and again I try things in the hope I can find something equal but in a lighter package, and time and again I'm disappointed.
Interesting. I don't play like Jimmy, sound nothing like him on other instruments, and yet can get pretty darn close by sticking a set of 45s on my Alembic and simply plugging it in. Jimmy may sound like that on anything, but I can only do a passable impersonation of his tone on an Alembic.
Wow - another Sei & Alembic owner. I appreciate your comments on the filters. Alembic puts a lot of thought into their designs so I might just start to learn what you have about the filters given enough time. Others have mentioned that the filters have a profound effect...
Regarding the Sei...I bought a used Flam 6 (with every possible preamp gadget controlling its 2 mags and full piezo bridge pups) with a very thin neck and what's seems to be pretty light strings. Beautiful to behold but anemic compared to the Alembic MK5. Maybe it was made for a slapper? Any comments on Sei v. Alembic? Would heavier strings get more fingerstyle booty out of it? Or should I just assume it'll never drive like the MK5? Thanks for your insights.
A most timely thread for me - I have not heard the James Taylor album mentioned at the head of this thread...but recently took the Alembic plunge based on the realization that Jimmy Johnson's sound on some Flim and BB albums is, for me, the single-most desirable tone and presence I'd hope to cop.
So now, two weeks in with a 4-string Rogue that I got for $1800 off of ebay, I'm blown away by this axe. It really needs to be taken on its own terms, as the filter, pan and bost/cut system is very different, but I'm liking where this might go.
With the filter at about 40% up from its lowest setting, the pan slightly favoring the neck and all other things flat (except boosting bass at low volume), I feel like the tone is in the Johnson ballpark. To really get there, it seems to be about a slow, light, stroky and fat touch in the right hand, close to the neck, but also about digging in on the left hand, and almost like I'm playing with the fat part of my finger below the fingertips - when I get it right, this bass SINGS...and unlike ANY other bass I've played, it will sing and yield what I'd call "micro-mwah" on ANY note, even in the lowest register. I'm in awe, as I've played other instruments (almost always neck-throughs) where I can get that singy thing going, usually north of the 10th fret on the D and G strings, but to have it available throughout the register is unbelievable.
I'm also trying sort out the nature of the tone, which is strong and robust, but also very transparent and clear without being thin or zingy. I'm messing around with chordal playing, and have never played another instrument that gets the chordal stuff off so clearly - the other axes I've played (with the exception of a Warwick Thumb NT, which suffered from bad neck balance and ultimately sounding too thin for my tastes) always seem to impart some sort of muddiness and harmonic weirdness, which I don't at all get from the Alembic.
One cautionary note - I'm having to redo my ergonomics, as I can't seem to yet find the magic position that works for both sitting and standing in a way that lets my hands fall where I think they should in order to access all frets without shifting the instrument itself or having to pay attention to my right arm as a lever to keep the body in place. And I need to fiddled with pickup height, as the G string is low on level, througout it's entire range, and I'm on vacation, without tools.
Otherwise, I'm totally jazzed...but let's also be clear that in attempting to ape Jimmy Johnson's sound, I'm not fooling myself that I am either there, nor anywhere near his ballpark as a player - he is one of the all-time greats!
But it looks like this Alembic thing is for real - a genuine alternative to either the Fender progeny or the hi-fi basses that use combine active electronics with systems permitting mid-range cut/boost. In fact, I've been contemplating the way the Alembic has the power and sustained oomph of the better active systems, but also has the quickness and transparency that I treasure from passive pick-ups on good instruments.
Too bad these are so, so expensive, but I guess that's what it takes - my advice - look for used axes, because the pricing seems way below the "true" value of these instruments.
And one parting thought - I want to explore some of the settings on my G&L L-2000, which will soon be back from a visit to the factory for some fret work, 'cuz I could swear that some of the passive/double coil settings are close to the Alembic, albeit with a somewhat muddier, less-clear tone.
So now, two weeks in with a 4-string Rogue that I got for $1800 off of ebay, I'm blown away by this axe. It really needs to be taken on its own terms, as the filter, pan and bost/cut system is very different, but I'm liking where this might go.
With the filter at about 40% up from its lowest setting, the pan slightly favoring the neck and all other things flat (except boosting bass at low volume), I feel like the tone is in the Johnson ballpark. To really get there, it seems to be about a slow, light, stroky and fat touch in the right hand, close to the neck, but also about digging in on the left hand, and almost like I'm playing with the fat part of my finger below the fingertips - when I get it right, this bass SINGS...and unlike ANY other bass I've played, it will sing and yield what I'd call "micro-mwah" on ANY note, even in the lowest register. I'm in awe, as I've played other instruments (almost always neck-throughs) where I can get that singy thing going, usually north of the 10th fret on the D and G strings, but to have it available throughout the register is unbelievable.
I'm also trying sort out the nature of the tone, which is strong and robust, but also very transparent and clear without being thin or zingy. I'm messing around with chordal playing, and have never played another instrument that gets the chordal stuff off so clearly - the other axes I've played (with the exception of a Warwick Thumb NT, which suffered from bad neck balance and ultimately sounding too thin for my tastes) always seem to impart some sort of muddiness and harmonic weirdness, which I don't at all get from the Alembic.
One cautionary note - I'm having to redo my ergonomics, as I can't seem to yet find the magic position that works for both sitting and standing in a way that lets my hands fall where I think they should in order to access all frets without shifting the instrument itself or having to pay attention to my right arm as a lever to keep the body in place. And I need to fiddled with pickup height, as the G string is low on level, througout it's entire range, and I'm on vacation, without tools.
Otherwise, I'm totally jazzed...but let's also be clear that in attempting to ape Jimmy Johnson's sound, I'm not fooling myself that I am either there, nor anywhere near his ballpark as a player - he is one of the all-time greats!
But it looks like this Alembic thing is for real - a genuine alternative to either the Fender progeny or the hi-fi basses that use combine active electronics with systems permitting mid-range cut/boost. In fact, I've been contemplating the way the Alembic has the power and sustained oomph of the better active systems, but also has the quickness and transparency that I treasure from passive pick-ups on good instruments.
Too bad these are so, so expensive, but I guess that's what it takes - my advice - look for used axes, because the pricing seems way below the "true" value of these instruments.
And one parting thought - I want to explore some of the settings on my G&L L-2000, which will soon be back from a visit to the factory for some fret work, 'cuz I could swear that some of the passive/double coil settings are close to the Alembic, albeit with a somewhat muddier, less-clear tone.
I can in no way afford an Alembic bass, any model, since I have a new kid on the way. I can, however, upgrade my electronics in my bass so I can get a meatier yet softer sound without having to play my strings any harder. I've done that by putting a set of custom made Bartolini quad coil pups and an 18v preamp in my walnut bodied Toby. I've also replaced the bridge to get a tighter B string. I'm in no way at the level that Jimmy plays at but by putting a few hundered in upgrades I did get a fatter, softer tone out of my Toby.
T
TylerlovesAva
Guest
I concur. A big part of why he sounds that way with James' band(I have two dvd concerts, Live at the Beacon theater and Pull Over, apart from an old Lee Ritenour concert and Several Flim and the BBs songs) I love playing that close to the neck sometimes. It feels good, and the notes really blossom that way.
Nice to see some Jimmy J love here!
Although I took to the filters quite naturally (which many don't) there are so many variations that can be had using almost microscopic adjustments that I'm still working my way through them.
Regarding the Sei, I've had 3 including the one I now own and I've known Martin Petersen for over 10 years now. He's a great builder and a fantastic guy. The first Sei I owned was a headless 6, and it was a very nice bass. The second was a headless 4, and I now have a headed 4 which is my favourite of the three.
You could try fitting heavier strings as it should certainly make some difference to the tone, but I've found my Sei basses have all sounded different to my Alembics. Thinner; possibly, although in certain ways it could be argued that they're fatter! That's the nature of the perception of sound I guess! I tend to find that sixes sound inherently thinner anyway, but maybe thats just me. Certainly there has been a different quality to the Seis as measured against the Alembics, although it's down to the individual as to whether it's better or worse. Bear in mind that Martin's basses use many different wood combinations and electronics packages and thus vary greatly from one bass to the next; none of my three have sounded much like each other. The majority of through-neck Alembics use more or less the same electronics/pickups (all Alembic designed, obviously), have more or less the same neck structure (i.e. usually maple and walnut or maple and purpleheart, although they will make you pretty much anything) and use a sustain block which I feel contributes a great deal to the sound, and so have much more of a "signature sound" than most Seis, although it's a signature sound which can be adjusted a great deal.
Again, experimentation with the electronics is often in order, and the problem is often that the more complicated the electronics the more problems you can sometimes encounter finding your ideal tone.
This thread confuses me... I didn't know there was any particular "Alemic tone", Alembics always seemed to be so versatile that one could get a large amount of different tones out of them. As opposed to, say, a P-Bass or Stingray, which tend to be one-trick ponys. John Entwistle and Stanely Clarke played early prototypical Alembics and their tones are completely different though the electronics and pickups on the Brown Bass and Entwistle's "By Numbers" era Alembics are probably identical. I have to admit that Alembic basses have never really interested me that much.
I've never been specifically blown away by Jimmy's tone, and maybe that's one of the things that's so great about it. I've been a fan of his "Flim & The BBs" projects for a very long time, since the mid 80s, and have seen and heard him in various back-up roles, he's always fantastic, one of my favorite players ever. But his tone is just there, just in the music, it doesn't stand out particularly, at least to me. Personally I like that for bass guitar, so maybe there is something there...
Time to pull out those old Flim CDs again.....
EDIT - I pulled out "New Pants". My goodness Jimmy can play. I love how he incorporates the low notes on the "B" string indiscrimantly. Love the tone, but there's nothing particularly unique about it beyond the great playing to my ears.
I've never been specifically blown away by Jimmy's tone, and maybe that's one of the things that's so great about it. I've been a fan of his "Flim & The BBs" projects for a very long time, since the mid 80s, and have seen and heard him in various back-up roles, he's always fantastic, one of my favorite players ever. But his tone is just there, just in the music, it doesn't stand out particularly, at least to me. Personally I like that for bass guitar, so maybe there is something there...
Time to pull out those old Flim CDs again.....
EDIT - I pulled out "New Pants". My goodness Jimmy can play. I love how he incorporates the low notes on the "B" string indiscrimantly. Love the tone, but there's nothing particularly unique about it beyond the great playing to my ears.
I am an Alembic player, and a bit of an Alembic freak, I suppose. I have owned probably in excess of 30 Alembics at one time or another. I own and have owned a bunch of their top of the line Series basses, like the ones Jimmy Johnson plays, and I have also owned a bunch of their less expensive models, like their Anniversary, Signature, Rouge and Europas basses. I think I can say without hesitation that you can get very close to the sound of JJ's Series bass for much, much less money if you score a used long scale Mark King Signature bass (most of the Stanley Clarke sigs are short scale basses) or a Anniversary bass. They ain't cheap - $6K or so new, and about $2.5K used on EvilBay, but that's a lot less than you would pay for a Series Bass. Europas and Rogues will get you pretty close, too.
For all you Jimmy fans, I just saw that the great James Taylor 'Squibnocket' performance has finally been released on DVD. Amazing performance with Jimmy, Carlos Vega, Don Grolnick... the 'Double Live' CD band.
This is, IMHO, is some of the best pop ensemble playing ever recorded.
Just FYI
This is, IMHO, is some of the best pop ensemble playing ever recorded.
Just FYI
- Mar 11, 2005
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For all you Jimmy fans, I just saw that the great James Taylor 'Squibnocket' performance has finally been released on DVD. Amazing performance with Jimmy, Carlos Vega, Don Grolnick... the 'Double Live' CD band.
This is, IMHO, is some of the best pop ensemble playing ever recorded.
Just FYI
Sweeeeeeet! Thanks Ken
