Giant Heavy Great Sounding DB amp?

Peter,
Ken Jung also has a Glockenklang and he loves it. So, to each there own. I love the Walter Woods Ultra and MI-400-8 that's my cup of tea.
I've had a Woods since 1979 and the two special things they have going for them (besides great tone and small size) are reliablilty and longevity. That's a feature we don't often talk about, but my original MI-100-8 is still being used regularly, and is now twenty seven years "young". After the faulty power supply was replaced, the only thing that's been repaired on that amplifer is the power cord.

Ric

 

I believe the Berg IP112 got top honors at a Bowlus GTG with DB. I really like the iAMP800 with DB when more volume is needed.

 

Not any more, he sold to me. Though I must say, so far, I am digging my Heart-Core a good bit more. I would suspect the Heart-Core would be even better on upright (but keep in mind this is a discontinued model).

FWIW, the best 'big rig' I have heard for upright is the 3-way, bi-amped Bergantino IP153 (with or without the extension 1x15).

Tom.

 

Howdy,
I've had fun with non-traditional lead sleds, Mesa 400 and 400+. Overkill for smaller quieter stuff, but great fun w/ rock and roll.

 

Until i moved to Chicago for school, i played a heavy rack setup. Carvin DCM2000 [40 pounds on it's own], SansAmp RPM, SansAmp RBI, and a few others in limited stints all housed in a Gator 6 space roller rack. It weighed about as much as my SWR WM12. Heavy, powerful, and gobs of tone. It was by no means boutique-but it worked and sounded great in every room we played.

If i could carry all of that stuff to a gig-that'd be great, but that was overkill for the football [Indiana Class AAAA] stadiums we played in marching band, let alone for The Green Mill.

 

The IP153 is a very different beast from your run of the mill 15" equipped bass enclosure. I'd say it's more akin to hearing an upright (or electric) through a really good full-range PA system.

Tom.

 

My Eden Metro 210XLT combo is a great sounding amp. Lots of tone shaping options, two channels and LOUD. At 88 pounds a dolly is a nice investment. When I'm on a doubling gig, I can load in in two trips.

As I recently said in another post, "since I'm already playing an instrument the size of Pluto, I might as well carry an amp with the density of a quasar.

 

I promise I'll get back over to the EB side where I belong, but I seem to be familiar with all the stuff talked about over here.

Ric... yeah, I still love that big Glock, but it was just too much of a horse to haul around for me. More importantly though, the Markbass SD800 kind of eliminated my need for a lead sled.

In the past (the VERY recent past), I used a small amp (Walter Woods, Thunderfunk, whatever) for the vast majority of my gigs, and had one lead sled type head or another around for the rare gig where I needed huge punch and presence (e.g., playing pop music outside with no PA support, or playing on a huge stage with massive front of house support, but no personal monitor mix, etc.).

However, the newest generation of the high power switching amps (the stuff used in the IP's, and IMO the SD800) is just stunning... massive volume and low end ooomph, versus IMO the AI and Walter heads... plenty loud, but just missing that 'gut crunch' down low.

So, my need for a lead sled seems to have been solved by a 7.5 pound two rack space head

My feeling about why the IP's are not widely used by DBers has to do with two things... weight... the larger ones are quite heavy, and more importantly, the huge, wide, open tone of these things... massive low end and, at least with the IP310 and 212, a very sizzly and crisp upper mid and treble response... again, not what I would consider optimal for DB.

Anyway... things are really getting A LOT better with these very lighweight amps IMO.

Edit: Tom's comment about the IP153 makes sense... that seems like a differently voiced beast, and would probably just KILL with acoustic instruments. I believe Tom has posted that the low end is actually tighter than the huge sounding 310 and 212, and obviously, the upper mids and treble will be softer, smoother and more 'organic' with the three way design and different, less aggressive sounding tweeter. Cool!

 

Small point, but I think the epi502 is class D, but with a conventional (or toriodal.. not sure) power supply, similar to the iAmp500 and 800 (toriodal there).

 

I actually found my old iAmp350 to be significantly quieter than my later 800, and especially the very hissy 500, so that's probably a smart choice on your part if signal to noise is a concern. I think the iAmp noise varies by unit (which is even more troubling), with some being reasonably quiet, and others being quite noisy.

 

Peter,
That was one of my concerns when the Little Mark II arrived on the scene. Macmarkt has been using them for a while so mabey he can chime in tell us what he uses, or dosen't use. The specs would indicate that you would need a buffer pre amp. But Ken Jung loves this amp and it's very reasonably priced.

I can't speak for all the amps you mentioned but a Walter Woods is definitely voiced for DB and works well with EB. It just dosen't have the kick that you need for slapping.

This is very true and if you double it's difficult to find a small lightweight that will fill the bill for both DE and EB. Unfortunately, it's not a one size fits all situation.

Ric

 

The Markbass LMII is WONDERFUL on DB's with more recent piezo's - like the Full Circle - plugged right in with no extra box. It was mentioned elsewhere and it's true - today's piezo's seem to be more flexible in terms of what input impedence you can run.

I agree with everything Peter said - the Epifani 502 sounded very poor with my Full Circle, the LMII sounds great. Both are rated at 500K at the input. So, once again, you have to listen and not go on specs alone.

Your comment about DB v. BG when picking an amp is also right on. I like a lot more amps playing BG!

Finally, a truly super rig for doubling is the EA Wizzy MLine (thanks BriBass) and the iAMP800. Its very uncolored for DB, and has lots of kick for BG. I ran this rig on a blues gig last night without PA support. One guitarist ran a Fender '59 Bassman reissue (4x10 and 60 watts tube). AND the harmonica player also had the same amp! So I was running against 2 very loud players and a drummer. The Wizzy M/iAMP800 with a natural 5 string F Bass didn't even break a sweat and delivered fabulous tone all night. I know people get good results with the AI heads and I'd say the LMII would also be interesting to try if you didn't want the iAMPs with the Wizzy M.

 

Having read your comments and Tom's, and considering the digital wizardry used in the IP units, I can't help but wonder how challenging it would be for Mr. Bergantino to add a switch that would enable the user to select electric or upright optimization.

 

That's what gets a little funky with these things. The DSP is supposed to 'flatten' them out (i.e., 'fix' the inherent dips and scoops in the basic response of the cab), and also apply compression along with a deep low end cutoff (I think at 40hz for the big ones) to result in very loud volume given the box size.

Once you get into different tone setting, then you are really talking about traditional EQ, which really suggests a combo amp... nice speaker voiced appropriately for DB, a nice bass head with enough tone control to match your instrument to the system and resolve (at least to a point), differences in room acoustics.

Of course, you can put a pre in front of the IP, and that's really the logic of the design. However, as we all know, mixing and matching a cab or power amp from one company with a pre from another is an art in and of itself, with impedance matching, gain matching, etc., etc.

So, you really need to think of these things as more of a 'front of house' type PA system that happens to be sitting behind you on stage. They still have a VERY distinct Bergantino tone ('flat' does not mean 'no character of sound of their own), but they are loud monsters and very nice if you like the Bergantino HT type tone.

IMO.

Edit: I have not heard the new IP153, and also have limited time with the other units... they are quite amazing and are a unique design in the bass amplification world at this point.

 

I might add that, with my Eminence EUB through my Markbass SD800 and either 112 or 410 Epifani cab, I have all the volume and tone that I would ever need, whether its a low-volume combo gig or a loud fusion gig. I leave the eq flat and turn the VLE knob up to about 12 O'clock and I'm done.