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Double Bass Giant Steps basslines/etude?

Don Kasper

Don Kasper

Gold Supporting Member
Dec 30, 2012
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#1
Here is an "etude" of mine that I'm working on to find new ways thru the changes of Giant Steps. These are written away from the bass, BTW. I'm hoping that I'll be able to incorporate some of these routes and shapes into my playing.
(This is an offshoot from the recent Music Theory thread "Writing down walking bass line".)
I like the quartal/quintal movements, the use of the 9,13,#11... and the sometimes delayed Root arrival and resolution (for ex. - see m.2, beat 1 - there is the D from m. 1!)
Thanks.
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#2
Here is another - utilizing the 2nd/9th as a starting point to define the Root. I think this is cool, as long as it's NOT a ballad tempo.
I like the partial Pentatonic shapes (in m.7 & 11), as well as the 4th and 5th-y movements.
And the sequence of 2 note whole-steps starting in m.7 (beats 3&4) - thru m.9 (beats 1&2).
photo(226).JPG
 
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#3
Don,

No, thank you. This is some deep stuff here; I’m surprised no one’s replied yet. Keep it up! Don’t get writer’s cramp!
In using 4ths & 2nds you’re logically mirroring aspects of the original melody, and of Coltrane’s solo. The first two bars of his solo are what? Simple arpeggios, no more, and in proposing "pretty," clarity-inducing 4ths or 5ths, as an alternative to knotty chromatic lines, you’re doing what the man himself does through 13 choruses.
When I was looking for new ways through Donna Lee, to use your phrase, at some point I realized I could try stealing wb lines directly from Jaco's solo, instead of from bass transcriptions or my own feeble ideas, with the basic "exchange rate" being his 4 notes = 2 of my wb notes; I then tried applying this to Giant Steps, scratching out wb lines from his solo lines “divided” by 2, cherry-picking my way through the measures. I did the same with that wonderful Joe Diorio book devoted to Giant Steps; pilfered - I mean reconstituted - all his guitar lines!
And you’d better believe I wrote them all down; Giant Steps is relentless.
To the extent that my objective is also to feed licks and melodic riffs to the soloists as well as propel the thing along, exactly how melodic can I be at 286 bpm? Answer: not much; hence a fallback to using your wide intervals. It’s my experience that soloists can react to an interval jump like your mm 1 of étude 1 more easily than a rumbling chromatic line.
Probably not news to you, but I see Central Park West as the ballad-tempo analogue to GS and a way to “pre-teach,” as they say, or introduce students to
the real thing or look at GS from another angle.

Hope this is somewhat coherent . . .
 
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#4
vilshofen said:
Don,

No, thank you. This is some deep stuff here; I’m surprised no one’s replied yet. Keep it up! Don’t get writer’s cramp!
In using 4ths & 2nds you’re logically mirroring aspects of the original melody, and of Coltrane’s solo. The first two bars of his solo are what? Simple arpeggios, no more, and in proposing "pretty," clarity-inducing 4ths or 5ths, as an alternative to knotty chromatic lines, you’re doing what the man himself does through 13 choruses.
When I was looking for new ways through Donna Lee, to use your phrase, at some point I realized I could try stealing wb lines directly from Jaco's solo, instead of from bass transcriptions or my own feeble ideas, with the basic "exchange rate" being his 4 notes = 2 of my wb notes; I then tried applying this to Giant Steps, scratching out wb lines from his solo lines “divided” by 2, cherry-picking my way through the measures. I did the same with that wonderful Joe Diorio book devoted to Giant Steps; pilfered - I mean reconstituted - all his guitar lines!
And you’d better believe I wrote them all down; Giant Steps is relentless.
To the extent that my objective is also to feed licks and melodic riffs to the soloists as well as propel the thing along, exactly how melodic can I be at 286 bpm? Answer: not much; hence a fallback to using your wide intervals. It’s my experience that soloists can react to an interval jump like your mm 1 of étude 1 more easily than a rumbling chromatic line.
Probably not news to you, but I see Central Park West as the ballad-tempo analogue to GS and a way to “pre-teach,” as they say, or introduce students to
the real thing or look at GS from another angle.

Hope this is somewhat coherent . . .
Click to expand...

vilshofen,

Thanks for your astute analysis, observations and kind words - sounds like we think alike. I like writing out basslines as a way to SLOW down the mental (and often reflexive physical) process, which, allows me to explore melodies/basslines (same thing?) that I might be hesitant to explore on the stand. (Insert picture of a man jumping off of a cliff, HERE.) I've found many usable lines, along with some that just don't feel good at first - I think it is worthwhile to explore material that may be ergonomically unfamiliar, in the hope of having it cross-over into the ever-expanding toolbox of "stuff that works".
Regarding the "relentless" pace of GS, I've played it duo with a guitarist friend of mine as a relaxed 3/4 Waltz as a way to experience the harmonic flow at a more relaxed pace.
Thanks for your time and interest.
 
#9
Don Kasper said:
I've played it duo with a guitarist friend of mine as a relaxed 3/4 Waltz
Click to expand...

Don,
Coltrane would approve! He had a sense of humor - running-the-changes-period Coltrane, anyway. He fully intended the thing to be played all kinds of ways - I'm convinced. As a waltz - why not? What about as the theme to The Steve Allen Show, or in a Buick commercial? Or as a foxtrot for a Holiday Inn lounge lizard? He baked mischief into these 16 bars, and of that I am unanimous!
I know, it's a "serious" tune - supersonic tempo, endless masters theses, stacked chords, sheets of sound, chromatic third relations; for me it's a song full of . . . one-liners. And the opera buffo cadenza at the end? Hilarious!
Anyway the takeaway from this is cultivating a desire to look for new routes, as you say, and the ability to write stuff down away from the bass - money in the bank! Only diff for me is I use small and capital letters on blank paper instead of notes on staff paper - easier to read off of on stage.

Ooops I forget to mention pentatonic lines - also a feature of JC's solo, and likewise sketched out in étude #2 above.
I hope this thread keeps going . . .
 
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#11
Don Kasper said:
Here is an "etude" of mine that I'm working on to find new ways thru the changes of Giant Steps. These are written away from the bass, BTW. I'm hoping that I'll be able to incorporate some of these routes and shapes into my playing.
(This is an offshoot from the recent Music Theory thread "Writing down walking bass line".)
I like the quartal/quintal movements, the use of the 9,13,#11... and the sometimes delayed Root arrival and resolution (for ex. - see m.2, beat 1 - there is the D from m. 1!)
Thanks.
View attachment 937766
Click to expand...
Nice approach. It is good to remember that Coltrane had a descending whole tone scale (B, A, G, F, Eb...) and most of his songs where he superimposed the progress used this device. The descending whole tone scale provides a certain song character under the improviser. Of course you should keep repeating this for 10 minutes and that's where your approach adds creativity.
 
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#16
Hi - an etude? aw shucks. Many thanks for these etudes. I am looking forward to working on them. I shy away from GS, due to the tempo and the sense that I sound like a duffer when I try to play it.

Craig
 
#20
Don,
I really appreciate your taking the time to A.) Write out the lines and B.) post them. There are some really nice/musical ideas in them. From the other "writing lines" thread, I'm all about writing lines away from the bass. Not that I would play a whole chorus using the 9th as a downbeat, but would you mind going into greater detail as to what you are wanting to accomplish with those specific ideas? Is the concept that the "shape of the line holds greater weight than outlining the harmony?"

I ask only as a gigging bassist, where, if I were to play anything but very clear root motion on a tune like Giant Steps, I'd likely never get a call back.

Kicking the 9th etude up an octave has some really nice shapes and sounds for a walking solo, to my ears.
 

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