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Gibson strikes again!

Variety and competition are served by inventiveness and ingenuity; copying designs is obviously a disservice to variety, and it is an unfair practice in competition as it eliminates the cost of design and development for the copier.
Then Gibson should have done something in the 50s and not the late 90s about trademarking the "V" shape. Which by the way is as common as the color brown. Ask UPS how trying to grab legal ownership of the color brown worked out for them, it didn't.

Variety in the V shape is not a dis service. How many P bass copies are out there? And how many of those led to someone becoming a bass player, then a better bass player, then eventually buying a Fender P?

Oh, and Gibson owned, Epiphone, copied the P bass in the 80s and 90s. I own one. They didn't even bother trying a different pickguard shape or control layout. Changed the only thing Fender would sue them over, the headstock. How arrogant to think they can do it and no one else can.

Heck Gibson even discontinued the V on more than one occasion leaving those who wanted one to either buy used, or another brand

Don't fault other guitar makers for Gibson being stupid in the legal dept in the 1950s. Or for copying Gibson's design when Gibson has copied others themselves.

Oh look, it's an Epicision...
IMG_20190627_001635118.jpg IMG_20190627_001641056.jpg

Break time over, back to the stage and my last set playing covers. Hopefully no one sues me for it.
 
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Granted, Gibson's attempt at re-canning worms is pretty silly, and they went about it in poor form. They'd have been a lot better off making a very, very soft statement just saying they appreciate that imitation is the highest form of flattery, but that doesn't pay the bills and a lot of people are making money off their designs.

Personally, I think it's incredibly lazy for a guitar builder to copy other's designs. If you can't come up with your own shape, at least be honest about it and negotiate a licensing fee. You're making money off their design - give them their due.

The only reason this is a thing is that Gibson failed to pursue trademark infringement in the past.

If some distillery started selling stuff in containers that were very close copies of a Crown Royal bottle, nobody would care a bit when they were told to stop. But people like their Gibson shaped guitars, and for some reason many feel that they have some sort of right to own one without paying Gibson's asking price.

Gibson has come up with quite a few original designs over the decades and the copiers have been legion. It might be interesting to know which copycat builders had entered into licensing agreements with Gibson through the years.
 
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I guess I better change the name of my Ukenbacker to Ukenbasser... but that still might not be good enough. Although I probably don't have anything to worry about since it's a one of a kind mod I did, not for sale. I'm using it tomorrow for a gig.

Ukenbacker done hi res.jpg
 
Hi Clark :)

Heck Gibson even discontinued the V on more than one occasion leaving those who wanted one to either buy used, or another brand

Even the LP was discontinued! (the SG was built to replace the LP!!!!!)

The SG is the only body design they never discontinued!

How could they even get a trademark for anything else?


greetings

Wise(b)ass
 
Hi Clark :)



Even the LP was discontinued! (the SG was built to replace the LP!!!!!)

The SG is the only body design they never discontinued!

How could they even get a trademark for anything else?


greetings

Wise(b)ass
Never knew. And who was the genius that discontinued the LP? That's insane.
 
This is just the tip of the iceberg for a problem that will soon become endemic in the music industry as it already has in the computer technology world for the last 30 years. Over there it is virtually impossible to release a new product or software title without being sued by someone for infringement of a copyright, trademark, or patent. And half the time these lawsuits are meritless.

But companies with deep pockets know it is expensive to be a party in a lawsuit whether or not there’s any merit to it. So they simply file against a smaller less well funded business and do everything they can to skyrocket their legal expenses and disrupt their business through the constant distractions of repeated discovery filings.

And the smaller company soon realizes it won’t survive long enough to fight through to victory because it can’t afford the money or time required to do so. So they capitulate.

End result is it has severely stifled innovation in the computer industry, and has had a chilling effect on competition. So much so that many startups in computer technology now make being bought out by a larger established company a part of their formal business plan. Because they know that if they don’t sell out to someone else they’ll very shortly be sued out of existence unless they can protect their innovation by getting it under the umbrella of one of the industry biggies that has the money and resources to legally defend it.

And now it looks like that same nonsense is coming to the music gear world.
 
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There's a shop about twenty miles up the road from me that sells guitar parts, bodies, necks , hardware etc. The bloke who owns it built a replica of a certain red, white and black stripey guitar and Eddie Van Halen sued him for twenty grand, STERLING! What was EVH doing in North Shields anyway?


Btw, anybody from EBMM, I used the word Sterling to describe the UK monetary system, so don't even think about it
 
Hi Clark :)

Never knew. And who was the genius that discontinued the LP? That's insane.

The first SGs were Les Pauls!

Wikipedia is your friend:

Quote:

In 1960, Gibson Les Paul sales were significantly lower than in previous years.

The following year, the Les Paul was given a thinner, flat-topped mahogany body, a double cutaway which made the upper frets more accessible, and a contoured body.


However, the redesign was done without knowledge of Les Paul himself.

At the same time, Paul was going through a public divorce from wife and vocalist partner Mary Ford.

Paul asked friend and former President of Gibson, Ted McCarty, for his $1 royalty per guitar to be withheld.

Gibson also honored Les Paul's request to remove his name from the guitar, and the new model was renamed "SG", which stood for "Solid Guitar". Les Paul's name was officially removed in 1963, but the SG continued to feature Les Paul nameplates and truss rod covers until the end of 1963.

greetings

Wise
 
Oh god, stop crying. You guys weren’t gonna buy a Gibson anyway, stop pretending that this is the final straw. Fake outrage is lame.
I was definitely never going to buy a Gibson or a Fender ever. I know guitars are no magic to make and I don't pay extra for names.
And seriously, I fully support the idea of one being able to own their recipe for success but there must be a time limit to that, so a guitar shape should not be a trademark.
 
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Hi Clark :)



The first SGs were Les Pauls!

Wikipedia is your friend:

Quote:

In 1960, Gibson Les Paul sales were significantly lower than in previous years.

The following year, the Les Paul was given a thinner, flat-topped mahogany body, a double cutaway which made the upper frets more accessible, and a contoured body.


However, the redesign was done without knowledge of Les Paul himself.

At the same time, Paul was going through a public divorce from wife and vocalist partner Mary Ford.

Paul asked friend and former President of Gibson, Ted McCarty, for his $1 royalty per guitar to be withheld.

Gibson also honored Les Paul's request to remove his name from the guitar, and the new model was renamed "SG", which stood for "Solid Guitar". Les Paul's name was officially removed in 1963, but the SG continued to feature Les Paul nameplates and truss rod covers until the end of 1963.

greetings

Wise
Actually the SG design was first used on the LP Junior and Special in 1960, the Les Paul Standard was replaced in 61 and the Custom in 63. The heavy use of Les Paul Standards in the Paul Butterfield album, 'East West' and the John Mayall album, 'Bluesbreakers' created new interest
 
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Going to be interesting to see how all this plays out. Personally I hope Gibson loses. Not because I dislike Gibson. But because I believe variety and competition are good for the consumer.
Everyone and their dog making Strat', Les Paul or Flying V copies goes against variety. That's why I actually like the Yamaha Pacifica because it is not a straight copy of a Strat'. I love Ibanez for similar reasons.
Someone just needs to make a Flying A instead.
 
Then Gibson should have done something in the 50s and not the late 90s about trademarking the "V" shape. Which by the way is as common as the color brown. Ask UPS how trying to grab legal ownership of the color brown worked out for them, it didn't.

The V shape applied to a guitar body is not common at all. Gibson invented it. The time they neglected to apply for trademark does not change this, and it doesn't change the fact that other companies copied their design and profited from it.

And by the way, your UPS example is a poor choice. UPS actually does have a trademark on their specific brown color; also note there are similar trademarks held by Fiskars on their orange handles, and 3M for yellow post-its. Note that these trademarks only apply to specific uses; you can make yellow things, just not yellow post-its. You can have a brown company logo, but not if you're in the shipping business. Similarly, Gibson doesn't have trademark on the letter V in general, but I think everybody knows that. But it's still great fun to make absurd arguments, I guess.

Variety in the V shape is not a dis service.
When multiple guitar bodies have the exact same shape, that is not "variety". Dean Vs look exactly like Gibson Vs. That's not "variety". It's arguable how much difference constitutes substantial variation. I'd say a Jackson Randy Rhodes style V is a design that is different enough.

How many P bass copies are out there?
Millions, I'd guess. Which has precisely nothing to do with whether or not it's right to copy the design without permission. This only shows that the design was copied. A lot.

And how many of those led to someone becoming a bass player, then a better bass player, then eventually buying a Fender P?
Still has precisely nothing to do with whether or not it's right to copy a design without permission. If Fender sees this as a valuable strategy for the overall benefit of their company, then they would grant this permission. But that is their choice as the owner of the design.

Oh, and Gibson owned Epiphone copied the P bass in the 80s and 90s. I own one. They didn't even bother trying a different pickguard shape or control layout. Changed the only thing Fender would sue them over, the headstock. How arrogant to think they can do it and no one else can.
Yeah, it is a form of arrogance to be hypocritical. Fender's loss of control over their body shape designs had already been established in court, and Gibson/Epiphone took advantage of that. But it's not illegal to be arrogant and hypocritical, and it doesn't remove their rights to attempt to enforce their trademarks.

And for the record, I absolutely do think Gibson was wrong to copy that design without permission, regardless of established case law.

Heck Gibson even discontinued the V on more than one occasion leaving those who wanted one to either buy used, or another brand
May be a questionable business move, but that's their right to do so. It still doesn't give others the right to copy their design without permission and profit from it. In fact, if you think about it, it's likely that Gibson stopped production because they were selling fewer Vs because of the copies. I doubt they stopped production of a profitable guitar line, but you never know.

Don't fault other guitar makers for Gibson being stupid in the legal dept in the 1950s. Or for copying Gibson's design when Gibson have copied others themselves.

Oh look, it's an Epicision...
Yeah, ever heard the saying, "two wrongs don't make a right"?

Three wrongs don't make a right, either.

Wrong #1)Gibson was stupid to not file trademarks in the '50s. But they got them in the 90's, and they haven't been revoked by any case law, so they stand. Doesn't mean they can't be challenged in court, dunno who'll win.

Wrong #2)Other companies have copied and profited from Gibson's stuff.

Wrong #3)Gibson has copied and profited from other companies' stuff.

So, yeah, it's still wrong to copy stuff. Break out a pencil and some paper and draw until you see something original and cool. Turn that into a guitar. Sell them.
 
Everyone and their dog making Strat', Les Paul or Flying V copies goes against variety. That's why I actually like the Yamaha Pacifica because it is not a straight copy of a Strat'. I love Ibanez for similar reasons.
Someone just needs to make a Flying A instead.
I own two Ibbys, a 2018 quilted maple top SR400, and a 2012 SRX2EX2. Love em both, but the 2012 is my fav of the 2 playing wise.
 

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