Gig Report: first gig back - new cover band

[dirtychinchilla]

Greetings,

I don't know if anyone will remember, but when I was (temporarily) kicked out of my originals band, I joined a rock cover band. It's mixed abilities - the drummer is very experienced, the guitarist and the singer are both relatively new to the game, and I'm somewhere in the middle.

Last night's gig was at the Holroyd Arms in Guildford. The stage was enormous. I could walk the whole way across it, do whatever I wanted without getting in anyone's way. However, I play bass, so I was more or less stationary. Did a lot of head nodding and rocking forward and back on my heels. Head height was a little compromised, hence the piece of foam taped to the downstand beam! Fortunately, behind the front line it was open at the top so I can stand comfortable when I didn't have to drop any backing vocals or hit a switch on my pedalboard.

The venue was cool. It's basically a pub, but with this nice open area for gigging. I hear they host a lot of hardcore gigs their i.e. nutters playing very loudly.

We split it into three sets of about 30 minutes each. The longest gig I've ever played at about 1.5 hours in total.

The set was very well received. The playing was imperfect, but the few people that turned up seemed to enjoy it. To my mind there were a couple of clangers - an out of tune guitar solo that I'd already picked the guitarist up about (not impressed), some missed changes, and the guitarist cutting short my only bass solo. That'll have to go in the debrief.

But on the whole, very fun and I can't wait for the next!

 

[JRA]

hey, thanks for sharing your gig experience! cool to have a gig in the first place and i'm sure it's exciting to have one with a new band --- glad things went well for you!

 

[WI Short Scaler]

Looks like a cool venue. Some imperfect playing is par for a live experience. Over time and with more experience things get better. And a few wrong notes are just "free" ones you give the audience right?

Thanks for sharing!

 

[dirtychinchilla]

hey, thanks for sharing your gig experience! cool to have a gig in the first place and i'm sure it's exciting to have one with a new band --- glad things went well for you!

Looks like a cool venue. Some imperfect playing is par for a live experience. Over time and with more experience things get better. And a few wrong notes are just "free" ones you give the audience right?

Thanks for sharing!

Thanks chaps. Yes I like that idea of free notes! Definitely need more practice.

On Saturday we received a message from our drummer. He's an experienced player and is in another active band. Basically, he said that he's leaving the band after the next gig because he doesn't have the time for another serious band. Fair enough…seems a little premature but I understand.

This is interesting for me because he was often the one to critique the playing. I'm going to have to step into that role now as the second most experienced person in the band and I don't really know how to handle that. I've got to tell the guitarist what he needs to improve upon.

Any tips?

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Thanks chaps. Yes I like that idea of free notes! Definitely need more practice.

On Saturday we received a message from our drummer. He's an experienced player and is in another active band. Basically, he said that he's leaving the band after the next gig because he doesn't have the time for another serious band. Fair enough…seems a little premature but I understand.

This is interesting for me because he was often the one to critique the playing. I'm going to have to step into that role now as the second most experienced person in the band and I don't really know how to handle that. I've got to tell the guitarist what he needs to improve upon.

Any tips?

Don't tell. Show. Make a recording or two of the band rehearsing a song, then play it back, not just for him but for everybody. Either he hears what he's doing and fixes it, or he doesn't. Proceed from there.

 

[WI Short Scaler]

Thanks chaps. Yes I like that idea of free notes! Definitely need more practice.......

This is interesting for me because he was often the one to critique the playing. I'm going to have to step into that role now as the second most experienced person in the band and I don't really know how to handle that. I've got to tell the guitarist what he needs to improve upon.

Any tips?

The videotape idea is a good one. I would say how much do you enjoy working with the guitarist? If he's a good guy and you get along, he's on time, shares most of your ideas and not too flaky than you'll want to put in more effort.

After working with a "sensitive" drummer I learned to always frame things as "we".....WE need to work on this section of the song, WE need to work on this intro. Maybe it's hard to explain but there's lots of musicians out there so the effort will be equal to your compatibility with him.

 

[LBS-bass]

Thanks chaps. Yes I like that idea of free notes! Definitely need more practice.

On Saturday we received a message from our drummer. He's an experienced player and is in another active band. Basically, he said that he's leaving the band after the next gig because he doesn't have the time for another serious band. Fair enough…seems a little premature but I understand.

This is interesting for me because he was often the one to critique the playing. I'm going to have to step into that role now as the second most experienced person in the band and I don't really know how to handle that. I've got to tell the guitarist what he needs to improve upon.

Any tips?

The band is pretty new, right? Maybe give things a little bit of time before you start critiquing; sometimes it's better to give players a chance to get more comfortable with the material before making suggestions. Most of us hear when we make mistakes and will take that on board.

Other than that, I'd say the video idea is a good one, too. Any way you can put things in front of people in a non-confrontational way is good.

That said, I'm sorry your drummer decided to leave. I sounds like he didn't really want to take the time to see how things were going to gel. But I get having limited time. If I were working full-time I'd be hard pressed to play in more than one band.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I really appreciate it.

Don't tell. Show. Make a recording or two of the band rehearsing a song, then play it back, not just for him but for everybody. Either he hears what he's doing and fixes it, or he doesn't. Proceed from there.

We've got quite a few from our gig, so I'll try and highlight the ones I'm concerned about somehow.

The videotape idea is a good one. I would say how much do you enjoy working with the guitarist? If he's a good guy and you get along, he's on time, shares most of your ideas and not too flaky than you'll want to put in more effort.

After working with a "sensitive" drummer I learned to always frame things as "we".....WE need to work on this section of the song, WE need to work on this intro. Maybe it's hard to explain but there's lots of musicians out there so the effort will be equal to your compatibility with him.

I like the guitarist. He's organised, driven, and I think his desire to gig will push the band forward. He's a little sensitive about criticism, but maybe I'll preface any comments with something like, "look, this may come across as critical but I want to make the band the best that it can be" and then use the we

For me, this isn't the bad that I put my heart into, but the amount of work required makes me a better bassist.

The band is pretty new, right? Maybe give things a little bit of time before you start critiquing; sometimes it's better to give players a chance to get more comfortable with the material before making suggestions. Most of us hear when we make mistakes and will take that on board.

Other than that, I'd say the video idea is a good one, too. Any way you can put things in front of people in a non-confrontational way is good.

That said, I'm sorry your drummer decided to leave. I sounds like he didn't really want to take the time to see how things were going to gel. But I get having limited time. If I were working full-time I'd be hard pressed to play in more than one band.

Yes it formed during lockdown, so maybe 8 months old. But it's taken most of that time to get us on decent form. So, we have had a fair while to get used to the material. I'm not saying I played perfectly; I'm very critical of my playing and whilst I'm relatively happy with how I played, I was not happy at all about the mistakes I made. But I'll deal with those. It worries me more that he may not have realised he's making the mistakes. I don't think he's developed a very good ear yet, so he can't hear when he's playing something just a little out of tune. For example, bending a note. On a guitar, as you probably know, you have to be very precise.

In reality, if he's treating it like a business then perhaps I should and be upfront.

----

On another note, again not wanting to be too critical (i.e. show my true colours), but we paid a photographer £60 to come to the gig. She's taken a lot of photos and there are some decent ones in there, but also some very questionable ones. I'd like to tell the guitarist as he organised it that perhaps we could get some better photos taken, but I don't know how to phrase it without sounding like a dick. I mean, they're OK. Don't like edited, which is to say that the colouring isn't great. And I know a much much better amateur photographer who took amazing photos of my other band. But I don't know how the guitarist would react to me telling him as he's a little sensitive. Perhaps it's just time to step up my contribution as I've stayed on the sidelines quite a lot for now, thinking of myself more as a session player trying to get the band up to speed (even though I'm definitely not!!).

 

[kesslari]

Looks like a fun gig on a biggish stage. Sounds like you're feeling your way through the band dynamics, which is par for the course. Wishing you much fun!

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Looks like a fun gig on a biggish stage. Sounds like you're feeling your way through the band dynamics, which is par for the course. Wishing you much fun!

Thanks

 

[delta7fred]

Don't tell. Show. Make a recording or two of the band rehearsing a song, then play it back, not just for him but for everybody. Either he hears what he's doing and fixes it, or he doesn't. Proceed from there.

^ This.

I record every rehearsal on a hand held recorder, edit the best copy of each song out and mp3 it using Audacity then upload them to Google Drive.

That is the easy part, getting certain band members to listen to the recordings is another matter!

When we had trouble with our previous drummer singing flat so I recorded a couple of gigs to try and show him, he thought that they sounded ok. Either he didn't listen to them or he didn't hear or didn't want to hear his shortcomings.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

^ This.

I record every rehearsal on a hand held recorder, edit the best copy of each song out and mp3 it using Audacity then upload them to Google Drive.

That is the easy part, getting certain band members to listen to the recordings is another matter!

When we had trouble with our previous drummer singing flat so I recorded a couple of gigs to try and show him, he thought that they sounded ok. Either he didn't listen to them or he didn't hear or didn't want to hear his shortcomings.

That's great, I'm glad it worked for you. I wonder how a hand held recording would come out from a rehearsal room though as I imagine that the microphones can easily be overwhelmed.

Fortunately, if the guitarist treats it as a business, I think I can get him to listen and critique himself, and the singer for that matter.

 

[delta7fred]

I wonder how a hand held recording would come out from a rehearsal room though as I imagine that the microphones can easily be overwhelmed.

It's a Tascam DR-40 that I have owned for 7 years but it is getting a bit long in the tooth now.

There is a level control that seems to be able to tame even the loudest of rehearsals rooms.
Location is everything with it, I always try to point it at a PA cab and away from the drums (snare in particular) as the snare is always the loudest thing on the recording.

To counteract this I like to record with the clip light occasionally flashing (always the snare) then compress the signal in Audacity by 2.5:1.

We've just moved to another rehearsal room and it has taken me a couple of rehearsals to got it dialled in to my satisfaction.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi @dirtychinchilla,

Cool. That's a pretty roomy stage for the four of you. Nice. I agree with the others who recommend giving the band time to gel. Everyone landed on the same stage so I'd call your first gig a success. Thanks for sharing.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Hi @dirtychinchilla,

Cool. That's a pretty roomy stage for the four of you. Nice. I agree with the others who recommend giving the band time to gel. Everyone landed on the same stage so I'd call your first gig a success. Thanks for sharing.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

Yes, I think it's the largest stage I've ever played on. Shame about the headroom though!

Thanks for the advice

 

[One Way]

I make and audio recording of each band rehearsal with my iPhone and Shure MV88 condenser mic plugged into the phone. I record a .wav file, import it into my DAW, apply some compression to glue the mix together, and edit out all the commentary between songs. I then send mp3 files of each song to the band members. We rarely discuss what someone did right or wrong in the recordings. Each player naturally focuses on their playing and most of the time determine how they need to improve. We do discuss song structure, beginnings, endings, solos, etc. It also can help the guitar player hear his or her amp is too darned loud and overpowering the mix! =-)

Want to know the most common comment that's generally made? "The song sounds better if I play fewer notes". Fewer notes in most cases means we're not stepping all over each other. I've learned to, when appropriate, not play bass fills on top of drum fills. Oh, it's fun to compare recordings of the same song 90 days apart. Wow is there improvement! Just sharing what seems to be working for me.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I make and audio recording of each band rehearsal with my iPhone and Shure MV88 condenser mic plugged into the phone. I record a .wav file, import it into my DAW, apply some compression to glue the mix together, and edit out all the commentary between songs. I then send mp3 files of each song to the band members. We rarely discuss what someone did right or wrong in the recordings. Each player naturally focuses on their playing and most of the time determine how they need to improve. We do discuss song structure, beginnings, endings, solos, etc. It also can help the guitar player hear his or her amp is too darned loud and overpowering the mix! =-)

Want to know the most common comment that's generally made? "The song sounds better if I play fewer notes". Fewer notes in most cases means we're not stepping all over each other. I've learned to, when appropriate, not play bass fills on top of drum fills. Oh, it's fun to compare recordings of the same song 90 days apart. Wow is there improvement! Just sharing what seems to be working for me.

Thanks for your feedback. Just thinking about one aspect of it - do you not comment on each other's parts?

Case in point - we're playing a super easy song, Seven Nation Army. It couldn't be easier. But the way that the guitarist is playing it really ruins the sound. He slides between each note in the main riff, and that song should be really clean in my opinion. It would sound better IMO if he played the notes without sliding, and I want to tell him. Do you not even tackle that sort of issue? He's also playing the solo out of tune as I don't think he's overly comfortable with bending notes and therefore isn't tuning in to them being out of tune. I could (and will) get him to listen to the solo, but I've mentioned it before and seen no improvement.

 

[One Way]

Thanks for your feedback. Just thinking about one aspect of it - do you not comment on each other's parts?

Case in point - we're playing a super easy song, Seven Nation Army. It couldn't be easier. But the way that the guitarist is playing it really ruins the sound. He slides between each note in the main riff, and that song should be really clean in my opinion. It would sound better IMO if he played the notes without sliding, and I want to tell him. Do you not even tackle that sort of issue? He's also playing the solo out of tune as I don't think he's overly comfortable with bending notes and therefore isn't tuning in to them being out of tune. I could (and will) get him to listen to the solo, but I've mentioned it before and seen no improvement.

@dirtychinchilla It all revolves around the people and personalities in the band. I'm currently playing with 3 bands. In two of them we can have conversations as you mentioned, which are very beneficial, get to the desired result quickly, and no one gets defensive.

In the other band one of the players becomes quite defensive if his playing is critiqued. He also has a habit of stopping in the middle of a song during rehearsal to point out how others should play their parts. Needless to say, in this setting when a member is critical of others and not open to discussion regarding their playing, discussion in this group isn't fun and doesn't achieve the desired end result.

I make my living in sales and sales training. One point I emphasize to my mentees is "if you say it they can doubt it, if they say it it's the truth". Therefore I'm using the recordings to get other players to hear what they sound like come to their own conclusion regarding how to improve.

When I wrote the original post I had the band in mind with the defensive player. Over time he has mentioned how the recording would have sounded better if his amp volume was lower, etc. Hope this background info helps clarify it.

 

[delta7fred]

ust thinking about one aspect of it - do you not comment on each other's parts?

I don't normally comment on the other members as some can get a bit touchy about constructive criticism.

If they consistently grate my nerves I will if I think it will make any difference (experience has shown that it rarely does). When I do I try to be very tactful.

It sounds like the guitarist is grating your nerves on 7 Nation Army!

 

[delta7fred]

At a previous rehearsal (with the acoustic band) we were looking at playing Pink Floyd - Wish you Were Here. The guitarist set off playing it way too fast then couldn't get the lead parts in properly. I pointed out at the time that it was too fast but he was adamant that it wasn't.

We tried it again yesterday, again it was too fast and I tried to get him to slow down. Reluctantly he did a little but not nearly enough.

I listened to the recording today and it is just wrong at that speed, 69 bpm compared to 60 bpm of the original, the feel of the song was not there (he must have been listening to the disco mix).

I put out an email to all members saying that it was still too fast, giving the bpms and included a YouTube link to the original. If that fails then I will veto it as I refuse to perform such a classic song in public knowing that we are making a complete bollox of it.