Gigs above bar room

[MultiScaleMale]

Just because you see no pedals doesnt mean they are not there in a rack drawer being triggered by a tech.

There were guitar pedal boards, I don't think they're giving the bassist special treatment with roadies triggering pedals.

 

[covermego]

Aaaahhhh, the fate of the bottom end being held down by the actual bass guitar! It's at a point where the subs drown out everything....... and the rest of the band likes that sound. The kick, toms and the left side of the keyboards totally override just about anything I play. Now they're asking me to adjust my bass to where it has more of a "piano sound". Welp, we already have a keyboard player. If that's what they want, I guess I'll hafta learn the piano.
I dislike subs because it seems most of the folks running sound haven't a clue how to make them sound good. There is no "mix" in a bunch of low-end rumbling, shaking noise. I have no more sonic space in which to contribute. Why bother?
Our previous sound man (at least, for our sound system; not for the "house" systems) was a guitarist. He did a nice job. Our current sound man is a drummer.
Wow..... I just realized what all this is leading up to, regarding the "drummer", anyway.............

 

[Altitude]

A few weeks ago I saw Oz Noy with Jimmy Haslip and Dennis Chambers. Haslip had one bass and one cable. The bass, albeit a nice Roscoe 6-string, was the same one he's been playing since the 90s.

I could hear every note and they all sounded great, although I probably wouldn't have called Haslip's tone great on its own. It was dry, strings sounded a little dead. Didn't matter. The notes he played were the right ones, he swung like hell, and who cares about the tone.

I like trios like this because there's naturally a lot of space. But these guys didn't need any help, they just knew how to stay out of each others' way just enough.

Not sure what I'm saying here other than that I agree, our quest for tone is largely lost on the ears of the people in the audience.

 

[JazznFunk]

The 'Pursuit of Tone' on our part as bassists is useless if the FOH mixer is more interested in the bass being FELT versus being HEARD. Doesn't matter what you're sending them if they reach for that 'SCOOP' knob right away and pull out all character in the tonal 'money zones'. That being said, the genres on this bill would likely demand more of that approach from the bass versus a mid-forward tone.... so I'd say it was all by design in terms of the mix profile for the genre.

 

[JazznFunk]

This is so interesting. I went to a concert this weekend. Sevendust, Plush, some other bands. Sounded absolutely amazing, however I could not for the life of me pick out the bass tone. Just thundering drums and toms. Made me question life choices.

That's why I dislike big shows like that these days.... the trend toward huge, bloated low end with no nuance and a blanket over the bass tone is just not appealing for me to plunk down my money to go, and it's been a problem for a LONG time. Live mixes would sound so much better if there was a shelf cut on the sub lows and if the kick was turned down to a reasonable volume.

 

[FunkHead]

I have been to shows where it's the opposite. Way too much Highs to the point where I just had to leave. Muddy subs would also bother me. Music needs separation. You should be able to pick put your favorite instrument in the mix. It's disappointing to hear that it's not improving and actually heading the other way.

 

[LordRyan]

The worst excessive low end concert I saw was The Black Keys at Madison Square Garden. The bottom end was unbearable and that was with only a guitarist and drummer on stage. They had bass and keys on a few songs but that didn't make much difference.

 

[micguy]

Yngvie Malmsteen was a glorious train wreck of ego and wireless drop outs.

The dropouts saved you some - without them you would have had even more ego.

 

[E Joe]

I agree that a lot of what we do ends up ultimately in the FOH sound person’s hands, but even the best sound people tell me they appreciate having compression, HPF, and good EQ on the bass being sent to them.

I’ve had some really good sound people tell me that they have to really labor over other bassists tone and still can’t get the best result without help on our end.

Also, it really helps greener engineers that don’t even know how to shelf or compress from the board.

 

[EncoremMP]

Went to see Coldplaylast night. Sat in multipe areas of th arena including floor( GA , so many differnt vantahe points) and in the stands. If i didnt know the songs i wouldnt have been able to discern any instrument except the kick and toms and keys. Bass was non existant in the mix.

 

[Pings Bass]

Beyond the barroom, it really doesn't matter what you play, but just have good timing and a good wireless.

Good timing is non-negotiable for sure. But I can't abide live sound mixes that bury the notes of the bass line under indistinct woofage. Modern festival- and arena-sized PAs are capable of producing clean and clear low end. It's a choice (either by the FOH engineer or the act on stage) to make it otherwise.

 

[wilberthenry]

I have been to more than one outdoor festival that had the toms mixed so high that they seemed to drown out the bass guitar. It also tends to cause listening fatigue for me.

 

[mike buzzetti]

DAMN FOH guys , I agree good ones are hard to find , a buddy of mine is one around here , he actually knows wht he is doing compared to many. and I do sound so ??

 

[Neil Folkard]

I've also found it true that bass effects pedals wind up being pretty useless in group settings.

Really? People hear my effects all the time, in our loud art-rock/punk/prog/whatever-we-are band, ha.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

I like the idea of being electrically disconnected from all wiring.

Me too! I have a nice Shure, but I've had awesome results on tight bar stages with a Line 6 G10S on my board that charges itself back up during breaks and doesn't have a pack to move from bass to bass. I even use it at home.

I still keep a 20-25' cable ready to go, a habit that goes all the way back to my Nady 49 MHz days.

 

[perfektspace6]

Yngvie Malmsteen was a glorious train wreck of ego and wireless drop outs.

Glad you got to see Malmsteen, even it is about 20 years too late. Saw him in the late 90's at the long defunct Daytona's outside of Baltimore and it was a glorious ego trip. Back then he had a great band and singer. Barry Sparks on bass I think. Not so much these days. I recall he waited almost 2 hours after the opening band to grace the stage and then emerged from so much fog that I would have been screwed if a quick evac was needed. He wore leather pants and a vest and no shirt. His gut just rolled out of the top and he gave zero F's about it. Got one of the 500 pics he tossed and it was glorious for a teenager.

 

[turf3]

I like the idea of being electrically disconnected from all wiring.

Play upright!

Or tuba, or bass sax!

There, glad I could solve that for you.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

Glad you got to see Malmsteen, even it is about 20 years too late. Saw him in the late 90's at the long defunct Daytona's outside of Baltimore and it was a glorious ego trip.

A friend of mine mixed monitors for him last week. I'll have to ask about the dropouts.

If you saw him in the late 90's, the singer may have been Mike Vescera who also was a member of the Japanese band Loudness for a while. I grew up with Mike's younger brother.

 

[bassbrad]

Let us be honest here @RichSnyder most of us here are hobbyist bassists, weekend warriors or worship bassists with very few pros or former professionals - so what we spend or do is pretty much for our own gratification that might see a bit of fruitful use in the real world. Yes the professionals have to keep things simple especially these days with touring expenses being what they are very few are offered much more than a bass or two and minimal support gear and have to rely upon sound professionals (gasp not hip TB members) for their sound on stage and out front. Add on top of that the hassles of travel, TSA, transportation, planes, bus, vans, cabs, uber or worse, hotels, no sleep and bad food and you still get a great show - that is professionalism. Professionals have to rely on gear that is proven to work night after night, week upon month that can be easily and quickly replaced if need be not the newest coolest boutique or vintage delicacy.
What we do in a bar band, church gig or most of the other things we play are such a far cry from the concert or festival stage there is really no comparison especially when considering cross continental or world wide touring. Thems is the facts jack.

It is fantastic the choices today of affordable and wide ranging selection of gear as well as the not so affordable and unobtainable too and I would bet that there are some commonly used pieces in use unseen.

 

[perfektspace6]

A friend of mine mixed monitors for him last week. I'll have to ask about the dropouts.

If you saw him in the late 90's, the singer may have been Mike Vescera who also was a member of the Japanese band Loudness for a while. I grew up with Mike's younger brother.

I think it was Mats Leven given that it was the Facing the Animal tour and he was fantastic. Vescera was before him and also great.