Gigs above bar room

[Wasnex]

I agree, our quest for tone is largely pointless.

I would modify that a bit. IMHO good tone is fairly important to me as a player. If my sound on stage sucks it has a pretty significant impact on my playing. So yes it makes sense to buy a rig that gives you the sound you want on stage.

I totally agree with this sentiment as far as how you sound out in the audience. In my experience the biggest problem tends to be bad acoustics. Bad acoustics means the audio tech does not really have control over the sound, especially the low end.

The second biggest problem relates to disagreements over how the mix should sound. Ideally everyone in a band should have a pretty similar idea of what the mix should sound like. But in many instances, each person in a band has a significantly different sound concept. If the members of the band can't agree to a common sound concept, it's impossible for the audio tech to make everyone happy. Also the audio tech will most likely have his/her own ideas, which vary somewhat from the band members.

Regardless, the idea that an audio tech can or should take your sound and spread it around the room without changing is both impossible and misguided. IMHO your sound should be processed separately for location and intended usage. What works for you on stage may sound awful in the FOH mix. I do agree that the audio tech should honor your tone concept for the most part. But he/she also needs enough artistic freedom to make adjustments, so your tone sits in the mix.

Ideally the best you can do is hire a skilled audio tech who consistently mixes in a way you find acceptable. Then over time you work together to develop a common vision of how the band should sound, and also develop trust so it's possible to negotiate reasonable compromise in difficult acoustic environments.

If you are working with an unfamiliar tech, the sentiment expressed above is extremely relevant, and I would suggest accepting the reality that you will have little if any control over what the audience hears. That does not mean you can't benefit from bringing your own awesome rig so you get what you want on stage, but sometimes that is not practical. If you want to have any impact on house sound, the band should contact the tech before gig day to work things out.

 

[rtslinger]

I am a weekend warrior, but wasn't all the time
that being said I brought that mentally with me when I became a ww just doing smaller gigs.
I still go clean Di to FOH and all I care about is my tone is clear and sitting where it needs to be in the FOH band mix, if I chose a different mix in my IEM that is only for me. Of course some songs give you a harmonic space to work in and add a little something, but mostly locked with the kick, fill on the accents, smile and go home

 

[2strings2frets]

Went to an outdoor festival recently. Inside the tent both sides of the stage had a castle built out of JBL speakers. I started into the tent to sit and listen when the band started , then turned around and walked out. People sitting in the back row appeared to be in real physical pain from the high noise levels. The female vocalists began before I made the exit , I’ve heard more pleasant sounds launching jet aircraft. Even 150 feet behind the tent outside it was too loud to hold any conversation. Maybe everybody needs to turn down about 16 clicks. That’s my rant of the day.

 

[RichardW]

I can't count the number of professional shows I've attended where (I feel) the mix is so bad and the overall volume so loud it almost impossible to hear the bass.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Play upright!

Or tuba, or bass sax!

There, glad I could solve that for you.

I should expand into upright more.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

And I turned on AXS on tv just now. It’s Michael McDonald playing and not sure of the bassist’s name, but you can hear his tone well. So like everything on TB, nothing is absolute and just about everything should have a “it depends” attached to it.

 

[HolmeBass]

It depends on the type of gigs mostly. If you park and play, then not needed. If the concert is more animated, I can't imagine not using one given the reliability of the new stuff.

A guitarist I work with mentioned a safety benefit - you won’t take a shot in the mouth from a mic on an open ground if your using a wireless.

 

[Clark W]

ill go with a big nay on the wireless.
unless you move more than 20ft away from your amp, they’re a pain in the &d#a*hh

I stand less than 20ft away from my amp using wireless and love it. No more dragging a cord across other cords to get tangled up in. On stage it's not really a big issue, it is nice to be able to walk off stage when setting up and hear what things sound like out front while playing. But in my practice space... vocal mics, multiple mic'd cabs, mic'd drums, PA, mixing/recording board, it's set up for a full 4 or 5 piece band, there are cables running wild everywhere, not having one to deal with on my bass really makes a difference there.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Went to a festival yesterday, M3, and boy was it cold. Got to see a few bands I've never seen before and shockingly, Stryper was my favorite. Yngvie Malmsteen was a glorious train wreck of ego and wireless drop outs. Skid Row was tight, but I'm not buying their newest singer. He needs an "onstage antics coach", but his voice is good.

Anywho, all that aside and just being good to be at a concert again, I was thinking about what the bassists were playing. They kept it simple. Four string or five string, pickup configuration, name on headstock, really didn't matter. You're lucky to be heard over the kick and the trend of lower and lower toms. No pedals, you really wouldn't know if it was on or off. Skid Row's bassist had an overdrive tone, but you could only tell that in the 4 beat bass break in whatever song.

So is this pursuit of tone that we've all been on at one point maximize it's ROI (return on investment) in the bar room were the sound is much, much better and balanced? The digital mixers now give even small bands effects and sculpting per channel that would have required racks and rack of gear previously. Beyond the barroom, it really doesn't matter what you play, but just have good timing and a good wireless.

We hire a sound company for our gigs and frankly, they do a great job. As for effects, I might have a slight bit of compression on my Eden gear just in case I get crazy and hit a few notes just a little too hard. Anything else effect wise is on them.

We record each gig and one thing is clear. We make a lot more mistakes than they do..LOL!! Seriously, they are a great bunch of guys and we have a good relationship with them. Every I always ask them if I’m ‘killing them”. And the reply is usually, “You’re fine”.

 

[Tim Lombardi]

Follow your gut feeling. Your sense of what works best is as good as anyone"s.

 

[Jantelagen]

Music needs separation. You should be able to pick put your favorite instrument in the mix. It's disappointing to hear that it's not improving and actually heading the other way.

Its not. For example, I recently caught Primus and they were playing their set + covering Rush. It was all well balanced and you couldn't not hear the bass. Bands like Tool are a different story live as well.

 

[drumvsbass]

The best part of being a bassist is shaking your head in disbelief as the guitarist sets up their pedalboard that looks like the USS Enterprise.

Errrrmmmm.... Uhhhh.... Whoops

 

[Admiral Akbar]

Glad you got to see Malmsteen, even it is about 20 years too late. Saw him in the late 90's at the long defunct Daytona's outside of Baltimore and it was a glorious ego trip. Back then he had a great band and singer. Barry Sparks on bass I think. Not so much these days. I recall he waited almost 2 hours after the opening band to grace the stage and then emerged from so much fog that I would have been screwed if a quick evac was needed. He wore leather pants and a vest and no shirt. His gut just rolled out of the top and he gave zero F's about it. Got one of the 500 pics he tossed and it was glorious for a teenager.

I saw Yngwie a few times — yes he had a penchant for making his fans wait after the opening act. The best time was when I saw him in the Albany NY area around spring 1992. He hadn’t developed his gut yet and had a killer band. I stood right in front of him at the foot of the stage… anyway, he proceeded to smash his stratocaster to oblivion, Townshend style just feet in front of me. I took a shower later that night, and small shards of wood were coming out my hair! Rock N Roll.

 

[P. Aaron]

I play electric bass with amplified acoustic instruments and tone is important but in that it fits well and supports what is going on around me. At festivals, we're at the mercy of FOH and their sense of how it should sound but, the drummer and I keep our pace and place. The limits actually make any show, no matter the venue easier to dial in.

I use a wireless on larger stages but, in pubs, weddings or private parties where we're more a vendor than an act, I simply go cord straight in to the amp. Never have used effects or even a tuner in the signal chain. Simplicity rules here.

That simplicity has me questioning (besides the weight) why I ever swapped out my LH1000 for the Mesa WD800? That Hartke really is a nice warm sounding amp, at any volume.

Paying gigs has paid for all my gear easily and I don't ponder resale, or worry about playing wear, dings, except where it can affect tone & playability. The frets on my '10 Precision V are showing some divots and I should probably get those addressed.

 

[JakobT]

I have never - repeat never - been to a gig, large or small, where the sound quality even approached the quality of recordings. That's not what we go to gigs for. We go there for the gig experience (which may or may not be musical in its nature), to hear the songs we love, see the bands we love, the ambience, the energy, the company, the booze, and a great night out. Sometimes the sound quality is OK, but I've come to realize over the years that sound quality is an optional extra.

 

[el murdoque]

So is this pursuit of tone that we've all been on at one point maximize it's ROI (return on investment) in the bar room were the sound is much, much better and balanced? The digital mixers now give even small bands effects and sculpting per channel that would have required racks and rack of gear previously. Beyond the barroom, it really doesn't matter what you play, but just have good timing and a good wireless.

If I were in the game for maximum ROI, I'd buy a good MiA Fender P bass and slap some flats on there.
Furthermore, I'd get a cable that'll last for a lifetime, a Sansamp pedal and a solid amp.

This could basically cover almost anything. I like using effects. I like playing my 6 string. But when it comes down to what I NEED to make the song work for the audience, I can do it on a P with flats.

I'd play that P for the next four decades and then sell it with a profit because it's vintage by then.
That's ROI for you.

What I do presently is mostly for me and the lead guitarist (who is an accomplished multi instrumentalist and sound engineer with a fine ear that can hear those little nuances). Swapping a $250 reverb for a $400 one that can do that one thing better that you're only using for four bars in one song will not mean anything to the audience or the bar staff or the people handling the booking.

 

[31HZ]

When I run FOH, it's standard for me to HPF to around 150Hz-225Hz every instrument (vox, keys, toms, gtr, etc.) *EXCEPT* bass and kick -- those get HPF'd much lower, and carved out around each other. Mud? None.

"Wow, it sounds so clear. What did you do?"

 

[MultiScaleMale]

When I run FOH, it's standard for me to HPF to around 150Hz-225Hz every instrument (vox, keys, toms, gtr, etc.) *EXCEPT* bass and kick -- those get HPF'd much lower, and carved out around each other. Mud? None.

"Wow, it sounds so clear. What did you do?"

But are you running 40 Meyer mains and 12 subs at 105 db?

 

[burgerdj]

My band just went over to a digital tablet-based mixer. It’s already a game changer for rehearsals and we’ll test drive at an outdoor gig next weekend. Totally agree about keeping it simple for live performance. Effects are a lot of fun, but they introduce more variables that can be problematic to get dialed in during a 10 minute sound check! Personally, I don’t need that stress.

 

[Scarysharkface]

Everything is a compromise. Saw Rush and Mr. Big back in the day in Lubbock and everything below ~250Hz was kick drum, and both Geddy and Billy were so heavily compressed and processed it was impossible to make out what they were playing even when no one else was playing.

John