Gilded Bird - Geo's new Thunderbird related project

[JIO]

Just scored a newish Epi T-bird IV for a very good/couldn't-pass-it-up price from Sam Ash. (thanks @scuzzy) Being a member of the Thunderbird Club here on tb reinforced my decision to purchase it as many esteemed members own them and speak very highly of them. These recent RI's of the original '63-'65 Gibson Thunderbird are from all accounts very good sounding, good quality neck-thru revisitations of the vintage 'reversed' bird. I have a '64 II (since '78) and owned a '63 II so it will be interesting comparing the two. It figures that Epiphone was the brand to finally do this - Gibson has made T-birds for decades and none of them reflected the Gen1 'reversed' T-bird in it's original form. Kudo's to Epiphone.

As I really don't need another T-bird (I have a few TBSO's including my '64 II) - I bought this bass to refinish and resell as a Gildaxe product. Being great right out of the box and being essentially "like new" - I won't change anything but the finish. Maybe a set-up/fret polish if needed.

And.., that finish will be a gilded finish, which is what inspired me to start Gildaxe over 10 years ago. I've been a Decorative painter since the late '80s and have done many furniture decorative finishes, some using gilding. I have been commissioned to gild clients' furniture/woodwork, and would also occasionally find furniture in thrift stores to refinish & sell - just part of what I do for biz. My criteria was always that it had to be made with quality wood, with quality construction, and had an inherent stylistic quality.

This pretty much sums up why I am using the Epi T-bird as a platform for my artistic gilded treatment/finish. A multi-lam mahogany neck-thru (like the original) made with quality construction and parts, with a bold forward-looking iconic style from the early '60s ... and it sounds great. To me that's a win-win-win-win.

Pics from Sam Ash of the T-bird. Of note is the number of laminations used which reflects the way the original Thunderbirds were constructed and not always reproduced authentically over the decades by Gibson.

​

Considering a gilded finish treatment similar to this beautiful Pagelli "Golden Fretless" headless bass - Italian organic elegance.

Will update when it arrives -

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Sounds like an interesting project. Looking forward to details on the guilding process.

 

[scuzzy]

As a finders fee, wanna knock off $3k for that metal flake SLX bass on reverb

I kid, but I've been eyeing it. Gorgeous.

 

[Engle]

Just scored a newish Epi T-bird IV for a very good/couldn't-pass-it-up price from Sam Ash. (thanks @scuzzy) Being a member of the Thunderbird Club here on tb reinforced my decision to purchase it as many esteemed members own them and speak very highly of them. These recent RI's of the original '63-'65 Gibson Thunderbird are from all accounts very good sounding, good quality neck-thru revisitations of the vintage 'reversed' bird. I have a '64 II (since '78) and owned a '63 II so it will be interesting comparing the two. It figures that Epiphone was the brand to finally do this - Gibson has made T-birds for decades and none of them reflected the Gen1 'reversed' T-bird in it's original form. Kudo's to Epiphone.

As I really don't need another T-bird (I have a few TBSO's including my '64 II) - I bought this bass to refinish and resell as a Gildaxe product. Being great right out of the box and being essentially "like new" - I won't change anything but the finish. Maybe a set-up/fret polish if needed.

And.., that finish will be a gilded finish, which is what inspired me to start Gildaxe over 10 years ago. I've been a Decorative painter since the late '80s and have done many furniture decorative finishes, some using gilding. I have been commissioned to gild clients' furniture/woodwork, and would also occasionally find furniture in thrift stores to refinish & sell - just part of what I do for biz. My criteria was always that it had to be made with quality wood, with quality construction, and had an inherent stylistic quality.

This pretty much sums up why I am using the Epi T-bird as a platform for my artistic gilded treatment/finish. A multi-lam mahogany neck-thru (like the original) made with quality construction and parts, with a bold forward-looking iconic style from the early '60s ... and it sounds great. To me that's a win-win-win-win.

Pics from Sam Ash of the T-bird. Of note is the number of laminations used which reflects the way the original Thunderbirds were constructed and not always reproduced authentically over the decades by Gibson.
View attachment 5086201 View attachment 5086202 View attachment 5086203 View attachment 5086204 View attachment 5086205 View attachment 5086206

​

Considering a gilded finish treatment similar to this beautiful Pagelli "Golden Fretless" headless bass - Italian organic elegance.

View attachment 5086052 View attachment 5086049

Will update when it arrives -

Cool, I've often thought a Vintage Pro/60's was a good candidate for a refinish. Are you planning to strip it? Or leave the poly?

 

[JIO]

Cool, I've often thought a Vintage Pro/60's was a good candidate for a refinish. Are you planning to strip it? Or leave the poly?

No need to strip it, will sand it dull and start from there. If I go with that look, the whole thing will be coated with red-oxide, gilded and stained/distressed and final finished by Pat Wilkins.

I used a similar tact on my SuperB 5'r, but this one will expose less red-oxide and incorporate burnt-umber stain.

Like on the SuperB and this Peavey B-Quad, Pat will dust it with tiny gold particles which is nearly impossible to photograph accurately but looks magical moving under lighting. It's the tiny gold dots you can barely see in this pic. Under lighting, they dance around the surface subtly. It's a product that isn't made anymore, and Pat saves it just for my finishes.

This look could be another option - variegated black-gold leaf. Variegated leaf is a metal leaf composed of a metal base, such as pure copper leaf or imitation gold leaf that has been treated chemically to create color patterns. These leaves have been heat treated to create metamorphic random patterns of intense color.

The patterning can be more random or highly charactered/visually active.

 

[TerribleTim68]

This will be interesting to see what you come up with. I own that exact same model bass -

I had an Epi Goth Bird and traded for this one, because the Goth isn't really my style and I always wanted one of these tobacco burst Birds. They play nice, sound the part and look the part, so the Epi is fine with me. The price point was great, since I was literally in the Goth at $150 (got it pre-COVID).

I'll be watching!

 

[JIO]

This will be interesting to see what you come up with. I own that exact same model bass -
View attachment 5086667
I had an Epi Goth Bird and traded for this one, because the Goth isn't really my style and I always wanted one of these tobacco burst Birds. They play nice, sound the part and look the part, so the Epi is fine with me. The price point was great, since I was literally in the Goth at $150 (got it pre-COVID).

I'll be watching!

Welcome! This one is the recent (first appeared a few years ago) VP Pro which has the bridge/string-stop style bridge like on the original '60s T-birds and chrome hardware. A Thunderbird like yours otherwise.

 

[BTL]

Looks like fun!

 

[mapleglo]

Following!

 

[BishopJP]

Awesome! I look forward to seeing how it turns out, but I am also very interested in seeing the process!

 

[Engle]

This will be interesting to see what you come up with. I own that exact same model bass -
View attachment 5086667
I had an Epi Goth Bird and traded for this one, because the Goth isn't really my style and I always wanted one of these tobacco burst Birds. They play nice, sound the part and look the part, so the Epi is fine with me. The price point was great, since I was literally in the Goth at $150 (got it pre-COVID).

I'll be watching!

The bolt neck Tbirds are a good value at 2-3 times that!

 

[BlueTalon]

This is gonna be good!

 

[TomB]

Go JIO!

 

[JIO]

Go JIO!

Hi Tom!

 

[JIO]

It arrived - I made a point of being home when it was delivered. I also left a note on the door for FedEx asking that they 1) do not leave on landing unattended, and 2) that I was home and to knock/ring doorbell. Our Pomchi Mona is a good little guard dog and I heard her growling. I opened the door and there it was, left unattended. The driver was at the bottom of the stairs so I called out and said "See this note? Can you read? If you leave a package unattended and w/o ringing my doorbell as it requests - it will be stolen. Packages delivered like this by FedEx have been stolen in this neighborhood." His response, "...oh, ok" ~

The box felt fairly light and luckily all the bubble wrap did it's job as it arrived in perfect condition from Sam Ash in NY. Phew! 1st impression - it looks brand new. Only indication of use was a bit of fogging around the neck pu & surround on the E side - but very minimal. The pu faces had no clear plastic, but were clean and unmarked. Weighed the bass - 9lbs exactly, the same as my '64 II.

1st step after inspection was plugging it in. There is a 60cycle hum regardless of pu settings, so it will need grounding. (not surprised, no problem) Output is strong and it sounds good, really good. I then checked for intonation and the D & G needed minimal adjustment. The E & A were good. Once dialed - I addressed the action, which was decent. I did a 1/2 turn on both bridge-posts which lowered it sufficiently. Nice lowish action w/no buzzing. I next checked the nut height. My method is depressing the 3rd fret and once doing that - the strings should barely touch the 1st fret. I usually have to file the nut-slots to achieve that - but it was spot on. One less thing to do. Fret ends were well filed, smooth and consistent - nice. Neck feels really good, very familiar to a dyed in-the-wool vintage Thunderbird owner/player. (since 1974)

Only 'flaw' was the G side bridge-post not being fully imbedded into the body as it is on the E side. Either like that from the factory, or it slightly pulled out. I looks very clean, so I'll guess like that from the factory. I'll address it once I start working on it.

Another thing I'll work on is filing the black plastic pu riser so the pu is parallel to the strings. Because of the way it is now, if pressing the last fret - the strings are nearly touching the upper edge of the pu.

I'm not crazy about how dark and big the tobacco halo is, but it looks better in person than in pics. My '64 II has a more subtle/lighter tobacco halo.

Epiphone knocked it out of the park with this bass - the closest to a '63-'65 IV up to this point. I'll go as far to call it a RI.., just not a Gibson RI. I'll be playing this for a bit before I start working on it!

Mahogany grain is very nice - it's a good looking bass overall.

9 ply lamination neck-thu is spot on - just like the original.

Epi hs is 1/4" longer (from the top of the nut to the tip of the hs) than my '64 II which is 11". Curious why they would make one of the biggest hs's even bigger!

Sticker residue, otherwise clean as they come. Wilkinson tuners, although not like the Kluson originals work well.

Overview : The cost of these basses is all over the map - initially sold for just under $800 (some still selling for that new) all the way to over $1k. I got this T-bird from Sam Ash for $425.90 to my door. The quality of this bass makes that what's called "a steal". But this will be how I have a chance of making a small profit as my work and Pat's final finishing will cost far more than this bass.

 

[Flamingo21]

Curious why they would make one of the biggest hs's even bigger!

Their way to stand out from the crowd, I'm guessing.

 

[JIO]

Their way to stand out from the crowd, I'm guessing.

Well, functionally the early '60s T-birds are one of the longest basses out there at 50.5", and the later '60s NR T-birds are apparently even longer! Models since the late '70s are usually shorter and because of a smaller hs. The original T-birds with that large hs and 1.5" nut lead to many being broken and a number repaired still out there. Interestingly enough, the way the VP is finished in that area with the dark tobacco covering the back of the hs and fading down into the neck past the nut is how the repaired '60s birds were re-finished to hide the repair.

I'm actually impressed that the VP is very similar to my '64 II at the nut. Many earlier Gibson & Epiphone versions had that critical area beefed up, and some have wider nuts. It's very close to echoing what I and owners of the early '60s birds love - the feel of the neck.

I studied the two (VP & my '64 II) next to each other and made a number of observations. Here's my summery - some obvious, others subtle.

* tuners - smaller Wilkinson clovers not like original Kluson's which also were on early Fender basses.
* jack on the bottom side - originals on the bottom front right corner area
* lower strap-peg on VP centered - on the '64 II it is off-set under the E string
* center 'string-thru' section sits a (1-1/16") higher on the front and back on the VP than my '64 II
* neck has a bit more set-back angle on the VP which leads to the bridge sitting higher to get proper action
* bridge on the VP is closer to the neck which addressed the issue that the originals had of a narrow reach saddle platform/mis-placed bridge (a needed improvement)

And a couple more observations related to the VP - those with OCD issues may want to skip over this part

It's a bit hard to discern in this pic, but the bridge pu, the bridge, and the string-stop/tailpiece are all slightly crooked. (in different directions!) Very slightly, doesn't bother me a bit - I'm lucky not to suffer from OCD. Once I start working on it, I may be able to get them all in line, but it's low on my priority list.

The string-stop/tail-piece on the VP is higher (toward the neck) than my '64 II - Pick-ups are positioned in the same location on the VP as my '64 II - pg is slightly different but mostly the same, but the T-bird 'logo' is screened on - not etched in as on my '64 II (safely stored in a box) Also, the angle of the 'logo' is different.

'64 II knobs have 'pointers/indicators' (sorry for the dust!) Also, numbers on my '64 II are etched/recessed under the knob-skirt where as the VP numbers are printed on the outside.

printed VOLUME is different and the gold on the VP is 'golder'

A number of subtle difference between the two ... but the set-back on both is about the same. Plastic nut will get replaced with a bone nut on the VP - fb wood is obviously different, but the VP fb looks very nice.

 

[scuzzy]

Mine has a fantastic neck, great fretwork, and these chrome would pickups blow away the black Gibson USA models.

A great start to a fun project

 

[JIO]

Mine has a fantastic neck, great fretwork, and these chrome would pickups blow away the black Gibson USA models.

A great start to a fun project

Yah, being a member of the Thunderbird Club here, I've heard about how good these basses are for a while - I have to say, if I didn't own my '64 II, I would definitely get one for myself. If anyone has ever wanted a T-bird - this is the one you need to check-out. And for whatever reason, there have been a few selling for under $400 lately. That's less than what a used Epi Goth is going for these days. Crazy.

 

[JIO]

More info: Learned a lot by removing 5 screws! It was made in Korea on May 8th, '21 (Korean 500k pots/2A683J capacitor*) which confirms the quality as Korean produced products are top notch, right up there with Japanese products. Cavity is not shielded as suspected. (hence - 60cycle hum) Side mounted jack provides spaces for two additional pots for those who mod.

'64 II w/added bridge pu 500k pot. Aluminum shielding paint. Twin .02Z/50V caps -

Also for those who mod - room under the hood for a 9v battery.

'64 II cover (I made an ebony one for my bass - original safely stored) is the same shape, but has only 4 screws.

* from our resident electronics authority on the Thunderbird Club thread, some clarity on capacitors ;

683J means 68 + 3 zeros OR...
68000pFd (J denotes 10 x 10^-12) which equals 68nFd or .068uFd
the confusion stems from different conventions (older, newer, domestic, European etc.) for numbering capacitor values.