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GK 410MBE Mods
- Thread starter gmarcus
- Start date
Mathiew_84 make sure you fluff up the pillow stuffing. My guess is that one regular size pillow will be enough. The stuffing should be enough to fill about 3/4 of the box when it is fluffed up. I pulled each speaker and put the stuffing in one at a time. Get some tape and mark the red wire and the lug that it was plugged into so you get the polarity right when you hook them back up. Divide the stuffing into 4 equal piles first and leave some open space behind each woofer.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Perfect, thanks a lot for your help. I am looking forward to getting this cab. I listened to your clips and I love your tone! Through my computer speakers, I couldn't hear much of a difference, but I heard it better through headphones. Very nice, and yeah, I do like the sound a bit better with the stuffing. Thanks again.
LOL, yeah, they sound like something I would like... I don't know about the tension (from what I've read), but I will try them one day, maybe when I convert my POS bass into a fretless with an ebony board... mmmmmm....
The gig went well last night. I brought one 4x10, powered it with the GK1001RBII and played the P5 through a WIIO and VTBass with occasional bass big muff.
We were on a porch overlooking a grassy area next to the street. There were 4 other bands spread out along the street so people would walk by, stop and watch and then move on to see and hear more. We caught a lot of people who would stop and then watch most of our set. I think we specialize in entertaining kids who like to run around and dance in front of the band
.
I was not through the PA so my stage volume was pretty loud. It sounded great. Punchy deep and growly! I recorded it with my Sony recorder using it's internal mics. Haven't had a chance to download and convert to mp3 yet, but I should be able to post a few clips this week end.
We were on a porch overlooking a grassy area next to the street. There were 4 other bands spread out along the street so people would walk by, stop and watch and then move on to see and hear more. We caught a lot of people who would stop and then watch most of our set. I think we specialize in entertaining kids who like to run around and dance in front of the band
. I was not through the PA so my stage volume was pretty loud. It sounded great. Punchy deep and growly! I recorded it with my Sony recorder using it's internal mics. Haven't had a chance to download and convert to mp3 yet, but I should be able to post a few clips this week end.
Here is a recording of the Cab with the band at an outside gig. This is how it sounded at the front of the stage.....actually we were playing on a porch and the recorder was on the railing right next to the singers. The Bass and drums are pretty loud. I was not in the PA so this is pretty much what it sounded like.
I was playing the Fender P5 with TI Jazz flats, WIIO ->VTbass ->GK1001RBII -> 410MBE with 2 lbs of stuffing. The recording is through the little mics in the recorder but it has pretty good response down to 40Hz.
I was playing the Fender P5 with TI Jazz flats, WIIO ->VTbass ->GK1001RBII -> 410MBE with 2 lbs of stuffing. The recording is through the little mics in the recorder but it has pretty good response down to 40Hz.
Wow, I thought I had heard that clip before, but I guess I didn't. Great playing, nice and funky!
I finally got the cab this week (or was it last?), anyways, I've realized that I do need to do something to take some out of the boom out. I was thinking of adding bracing and lining it, but that would be permanent, so I'm thinking of just stuffing her. I can always take it out if needed.
Question though, is there a significant difference between lining and stuffing?
Also with stuffing, Gmarcus, I know you said to split the stuffing into 4 equal piles and pull all 4 speakers out to get even distribution. But if I filled up the cab about 3/4 full, wouldn't the stuffing just fall down anyway when I stood it back up? Or does it get squished in there when the speakers are put back in?
Thanks,
Matt
I finally got the cab this week (or was it last?), anyways, I've realized that I do need to do something to take some out of the boom out. I was thinking of adding bracing and lining it, but that would be permanent, so I'm thinking of just stuffing her. I can always take it out if needed.
Question though, is there a significant difference between lining and stuffing?
Also with stuffing, Gmarcus, I know you said to split the stuffing into 4 equal piles and pull all 4 speakers out to get even distribution. But if I filled up the cab about 3/4 full, wouldn't the stuffing just fall down anyway when I stood it back up? Or does it get squished in there when the speakers are put back in?
Thanks,
Matt
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
- 16,860
- 278
- 76
- Disclosures
- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
That depends on the Q of the cab. Without knowing the driver specs, or having the gear to measure it, there's no way of knowing what that is.
Thanks Bill, sorry, I guess my question should be a little different. What's the difference between the two?
From what I've gathered, stuffing lowers the Q which, if the cab has a high Q, it will smooth out an otherwise erratic midrange, and it will also smooth out the lower frequencies. Lining a cab though dampens the frequencies so they don't resonate through out the cabinet and outside of it.
If I'm right in this, does stuffing a cab with a high Q also dampen the frequencies that resonate within the cab?
I also understand that stuffing a cab depends on the Q, but does lining it depend on anything? Are there moments when you wouldn't want to line a cab? Should the actions for taming a rumbly, boomy cab go:
1) Ensure there is sufficient bracing. Add more if there isn't.
2) Line the cab
3) Then stuff the cab if there is sufficient bracing and lining, but the cab is still boomy?
Sorry, I realize there's more to it and to find the best approach would require different instruments and different methods would be recommended for different cabs. It's just that this cab is boomy in tone and the cabinet itself rumbles and is shaking the floor underneath and the amp on top of it.
Thanks, I really do appreciate any help,
Matt
From what I've gathered, stuffing lowers the Q which, if the cab has a high Q, it will smooth out an otherwise erratic midrange, and it will also smooth out the lower frequencies. Lining a cab though dampens the frequencies so they don't resonate through out the cabinet and outside of it.
If I'm right in this, does stuffing a cab with a high Q also dampen the frequencies that resonate within the cab?
I also understand that stuffing a cab depends on the Q, but does lining it depend on anything? Are there moments when you wouldn't want to line a cab? Should the actions for taming a rumbly, boomy cab go:
1) Ensure there is sufficient bracing. Add more if there isn't.
2) Line the cab
3) Then stuff the cab if there is sufficient bracing and lining, but the cab is still boomy?
Sorry, I realize there's more to it and to find the best approach would require different instruments and different methods would be recommended for different cabs. It's just that this cab is boomy in tone and the cabinet itself rumbles and is shaking the floor underneath and the amp on top of it.
Thanks, I really do appreciate any help,
Matt
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
- 16,860
- 278
- 76
- Disclosures
- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
It does.
It does not.
That's really the only alternative when you don't have any way of measuring the cab response or Q and can't get the necessary data from the manufacturer to calculate it. Keep in mind that some rooms just have boomy response, and no cab will fix that. If the cab doesn't boom in a quiet room then it's probably not at fault. A parametric EQ is the best cure in that case, though lifting the cab two to three feet off the floor can help.
Hmmmm, thanks for the insight Bill. Always appreciated. The room does have a boomy response. So I do understand that the room will shake even just from the soundwaves coming out of the speakers and hitting the floor.
I do have the cab on a gramma pad, but the amp on top of the cab still vibrates so much that the housing rattles on some notes.
Well, I guess it would be good to add bracing and lining in any case... I just don't want to void the warranty, but I do understand that it will improve the cab at the same time. It's really a shame that the manufacturer didn't see the need to do this though.
I do have the cab on a gramma pad, but the amp on top of the cab still vibrates so much that the housing rattles on some notes.
Well, I guess it would be good to add bracing and lining in any case... I just don't want to void the warranty, but I do understand that it will improve the cab at the same time. It's really a shame that the manufacturer didn't see the need to do this though.
Hi Matt
Thanks for the complement! I spread a little silicone on the walls so the stuffing would stick. Also the bracing breaks the cabinet up into 4 sub boxed. You will see what I mean when you open it up. You could probably get away without the silicone if you are concerned about the warrantee. I only pulled one speaker on my first cabinet and stuffed it all from there but I got much better results pulling all of the speakers one at a time and carefully stuffing each sub box. The 2 lbs of stuffing is only enough to fill the box about 3/4. I kind of formed it into a bowl shape behind each speaker leaving a couple of inches between the speaker and the stuffing.
Good luck
Thanks for the complement! I spread a little silicone on the walls so the stuffing would stick. Also the bracing breaks the cabinet up into 4 sub boxed. You will see what I mean when you open it up. You could probably get away without the silicone if you are concerned about the warrantee. I only pulled one speaker on my first cabinet and stuffed it all from there but I got much better results pulling all of the speakers one at a time and carefully stuffing each sub box. The 2 lbs of stuffing is only enough to fill the box about 3/4. I kind of formed it into a bowl shape behind each speaker leaving a couple of inches between the speaker and the stuffing.
Good luck
AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
So, I stuffed the cabinet just as you've described Gregg. Used about 2lbs of polyester pillow stuffing, fluffled it up, siliconed it to the walls, created bowls, filled it up about 3/4 with about 1.5" behind each speaker, then I waited for the silicone to dry. Finally, I put it back together and played it today.
First, I made sure that each speaker was working and after I confirmed that, I turned it up a bit to see if the amp's housing was still rattling... And it did.
I must say though, that I did notice a bit of difference in tone, the tone seems to be a little bit more smoother, and it has maybe a little "roar", and the room even seems to rattle a *bit* less.
I really do want to thank you Gregg, Bill and everyone else who has contributed to this thread. The cab is definitely better than it was and I'm very glad I did this.
But as I was looking at the amp's housing, I realized how easily it rattles. It is made out of some very thin gauged aluminum, and I could make it rattle by lightly tapping it with my thumb. I went out and bought some harder rubber feet and it still rattled. I then folded up a towel a couple of times and put it in between the amp and cab and it still rattled.
I realized something though... This room is very boomy and a lot of things shake in it. I also have lots of other pieces of thin-gauged aluminum in the room (including a grill over a large radiator) that also rattles on the same E note (an octave above the low E on the E or A string). So I'm thinking that as the frequencies bounce around the room and these metals shake, the amp's housing shakes around as well. Before I stuffed the cab, I took the amp off of the cab and it didn't rattle, so I thought it was the cab vibrating only, but maybe it had something to do with its location, or maybe my test wasn't thorough enough.
Anyways, I grabbed a towel and folded it over three times and then wrapped it around the amp (not blocking any vents), and tied it down. I can't hear the amp's houding rattling anymore, though maybe I just muffled it. The Crown XLS 1000 is meant to be mounted in a rack, so I will, sometime soon, build some sort of box for it and throw in a bit of insulation.
Thanks again everyone,
Matt
I thought I'd post a couple of photos of the cab before I put the speakers in incase anyone would like to have a look. After I took these photos though, I felt like there was a little too much insulation and I'd rather play it safe and have less than the perfect amount rather than more. So I cleaned up the edges a bit, took some more stuffing out from the backs and then fluffed up the remaining stuffing a bit more, and then put little pieces in any place where I could see wood, or looked a bit empty.
So all in all, I probably took about a tennis ball's (compressed) worth of stuffing out of it after taking these photos.
EDIT TO ADD: There's also been some discussion on whether or not these cabs are adequately braced. Once I took the speakers out I realized that it was and I didn't feel the need to add anymore.
So, I stuffed the cabinet just as you've described Gregg. Used about 2lbs of polyester pillow stuffing, fluffled it up, siliconed it to the walls, created bowls, filled it up about 3/4 with about 1.5" behind each speaker, then I waited for the silicone to dry. Finally, I put it back together and played it today.
First, I made sure that each speaker was working and after I confirmed that, I turned it up a bit to see if the amp's housing was still rattling... And it did.
I must say though, that I did notice a bit of difference in tone, the tone seems to be a little bit more smoother, and it has maybe a little "roar", and the room even seems to rattle a *bit* less.
I really do want to thank you Gregg, Bill and everyone else who has contributed to this thread. The cab is definitely better than it was and I'm very glad I did this.
But as I was looking at the amp's housing, I realized how easily it rattles. It is made out of some very thin gauged aluminum, and I could make it rattle by lightly tapping it with my thumb. I went out and bought some harder rubber feet and it still rattled. I then folded up a towel a couple of times and put it in between the amp and cab and it still rattled.
I realized something though... This room is very boomy and a lot of things shake in it. I also have lots of other pieces of thin-gauged aluminum in the room (including a grill over a large radiator) that also rattles on the same E note (an octave above the low E on the E or A string). So I'm thinking that as the frequencies bounce around the room and these metals shake, the amp's housing shakes around as well. Before I stuffed the cab, I took the amp off of the cab and it didn't rattle, so I thought it was the cab vibrating only, but maybe it had something to do with its location, or maybe my test wasn't thorough enough.
Anyways, I grabbed a towel and folded it over three times and then wrapped it around the amp (not blocking any vents), and tied it down. I can't hear the amp's houding rattling anymore, though maybe I just muffled it. The Crown XLS 1000 is meant to be mounted in a rack, so I will, sometime soon, build some sort of box for it and throw in a bit of insulation.
Thanks again everyone,
Matt
I thought I'd post a couple of photos of the cab before I put the speakers in incase anyone would like to have a look. After I took these photos though, I felt like there was a little too much insulation and I'd rather play it safe and have less than the perfect amount rather than more. So I cleaned up the edges a bit, took some more stuffing out from the backs and then fluffed up the remaining stuffing a bit more, and then put little pieces in any place where I could see wood, or looked a bit empty.
So all in all, I probably took about a tennis ball's (compressed) worth of stuffing out of it after taking these photos.
EDIT TO ADD: There's also been some discussion on whether or not these cabs are adequately braced. Once I took the speakers out I realized that it was and I didn't feel the need to add anymore.
Attachments
Matt
That looks about the same as mine. I noticed the biggest difference in sound when I turn it up with the band. It is a lot tighter and smoother sounding. That's a drag that the amp is still rattling. Can you tighten up the screws on the amp or maybe shim a couple of the panels with rubber washers or something?
That looks about the same as mine. I noticed the biggest difference in sound when I turn it up with the band. It is a lot tighter and smoother sounding. That's a drag that the amp is still rattling. Can you tighten up the screws on the amp or maybe shim a couple of the panels with rubber washers or something?
Hmmm, great idea Gregg. I'll look into that when I get home. The screw heads are torques and I don't think I have any of those drivers, but I'll check.
And the difference in the cab is amazing. Since my room is so boomy I can certainly hear the difference. The room makes half the noise it did before, and before I had to have the tweeter on to the brighten up the tone a bit, but afterwards I found it too bright, so I turned it off... I finally have control over my tone again and she is nice.
And the difference in the cab is amazing. Since my room is so boomy I can certainly hear the difference. The room makes half the noise it did before, and before I had to have the tweeter on to the brighten up the tone a bit, but afterwards I found it too bright, so I turned it off... I finally have control over my tone again and she is nice.
I just bought one of these today from GC with a 12% coupon.
My head (Eden) won't be here until next week so no testing until then.
I recently rebuilt the crossovers in my Old Advents and the they had what looked like the same stuffing that is shown in the pictures a few post up but they also used what looked like some fabric screening to keep it out of the woofers.
The cab sounds nice on the live clip posted above, the drummer is energetic
with good timing and I think I heard a wood block in there somewhere
My head (Eden) won't be here until next week so no testing until then.
I recently rebuilt the crossovers in my Old Advents and the they had what looked like the same stuffing that is shown in the pictures a few post up but they also used what looked like some fabric screening to keep it out of the woofers.
The cab sounds nice on the live clip posted above, the drummer is energetic
with good timing and I think I heard a wood block in there somewhere
