GK Question

[B-string]

So B, let me see if I understand. My MB210 right now is a 500 watt amp, but I'm not using the whole 500 unless I run an extension cab to it?
So with a 210MBE I would be using the whole 500? You mentioned 600 watts. Is it possible to get more than 500 watts even though the amp itself is rated 500?
Also what about these Seismic cabinets? Going on the 'you get what you pay for' philosophy, they are probably junk?
Thanks again for teaching me all of this.
Jack

Add a second 8 ohm speaker cab to your MB210 and its power output rating goes from 350 watts (8 ohms) to 500 watts (4 ohms). This is very true!
Get more than the rated power? NO not in wattage. Add more speakers and each watt can produce more actual sound. This is also very true.

There are few things that do not fallow the get what you pay for. Avatar cabs were at one time less expensive than G-K and still very high quality, but I hear and read component costs have ended that. Don't cheap out on bass cab or PA speakers, it will cost you double at least in the end If you can find a used Avatar cab they are high quality although sound a little different.
Oh yes, think of speaker cab watt ratings more like an expandable fuel tank. You don not have to cram every last drop into them and usually best NOT to.

 

[scottfeldstein]

The MB210 and MB212 use a stripped down and reconfigued MB500 head. You will be splitting 500 watts into two 600 watt NEO 212 cabs. Thats 250 watts into each 600 watt cab. So what don't you understand?
More speaker area equals more sound from the same watt input. Be that 2 210, 210 + 410 or 2 212.

I think it's you who don't understand.

The MB210 + 410MBE would indeed be louder than

The MB210 + 210MBE.

But not by as much as you would expect. Why? The 410MBE could never reach it's maximum potential in this scenario. Because it's limited by the internal speakers in the combo.

Imagine that me (210) and Arnold Schwarzenegger (410) are a team. And we each had to hold up one end of a dumbbell. It doesn't matter that he's way stronger than I am. The maximum weight of what we can hold up together is limited by how much I can hold up. If he can hold up 500 pounds and I can hold up 200 pounds, the maximum we can hold up together is still only 400 pounds. 200 for me and 200 for him. Don't you see? You will have Arnold, but he can never, ever reach his full potential because he's limited by me.

 

[Bredian]

You could always use the powered enclosures

 

[Blankandson]

Whatever you do, try it out first. I tried the GK microbass (100 watts by itself) into 4 different extension cabs. The first three (1X15, 2X10, 4X10) didn't add or subract anything. But the little GK 1X12 made for it really added to both the volumn and sound, although each speaker was then getting only 75 watts (150 watts @ 4 ohms / 2 ). So in MY personal opinion only the GK extension worked with THAT GK combo. BTW: I also disconnected the internal speaker and tried the combo with the other three cabs alone. That still didn't sound as good as using both GK 12 inchers.

 

[B-string]

I think it's you who don't understand.

The MB210 + 410MBE would indeed be louder than

The MB210 + 210MBE.

But not by as much as you would expect. Why? The 410MBE could never reach it's maximum potential in this scenario. Because it's limited by the internal speakers in the combo.

Imagine that me (210) and Arnold Schwarzenegger (410) are a team. And we each had to hold up one end of a dumbbell. It doesn't matter that he's way stronger than I am. The maximum weight of what we can hold up together is limited by how much I can hold up. If he can hold up 500 pounds and I can hold up 200 pounds, the maximum we can hold up together is still only 400 pounds. 200 for me and 200 for him. Don't you see? You will have Arnold, but he can never, ever reach his full potential because he's limited by me.

If you mean they could never reach power compression you are correct. Power compression is fine for guitarists, not for bass unless that is your thing.
Your analogy does not work at all for speaker cabs sorry.
Speakers are an electro-magnetic motor attached to a cone. They will move the same amount with a given power input, six identical speakers will move the same amount as four identical speakers with the same input power. Six cones moving the same will produce a higher SPL than four will. There is no potential to reach with G-K cabs. The only cabs I know of that have a minimum power requirement are Acme. Acme designs their cabs to reach a certain frequency response profile, they are not designed with efficiency in mind.

 

[Hopkins]

If you mean they could never reach power compression you are correct. Power compression is fine for guitarists, not for bass unless that is your thing.
Your analogy does not work at all for speaker cabs sorry.
Speakers are an electro-magnetic motor attached to a cone. They will move the same amount with a given power input, six identical speakers will move the same amount as four identical speakers with the same input power. Six cones moving the same will produce a higher SPL than four will. There is no potential to reach with G-K cabs. The only cabs I know of that have a minimum power requirement are Acme. Acme designs their cabs to reach a certain frequency response profile, they are not designed with efficiency in mind.

While they would work fine together, If he started pushing his rig a little to hard the 2 10s in the combo could be overexerted before the 410 cab even breaks a sweat. If playing in a band situation this could easily go unnoticed and result in blown speakers in the combo.

 

[scottfeldstein]

While they would work fine together, If he started pushing his rig a little to hard the 2 10s in the combo could be overexerted before the 410 cab even breaks a sweat.

Bingo. And if you're fine with your 4x10 never "breaking a sweat," never giving you its full potential, even though you're hauling every pound of it and paying every dollar for it--fine. I just think it's kind of a waste. And when someone suggests putting such a rig together, knowledgeable people should warn them about this.

 

[TC.65]

Just my opinion if I were you I would go with the GK Neo 210. It will have a better tone and is a better cab all the way around. I don't care much for the MBE or MBX cabinets but all the GK Neo cabinets are loud, well built, and have an awesome tone.

 

[scottfeldstein]

If you mean they could never reach power compression you are correct. Power compression is fine for guitarists, not for bass unless that is your thing.

No idea what you're talking about.

Your analogy does not work at all for speaker cabs sorry.

It really kind of does. It's not perfect, but it illustrates something important. The 2x10 + 4x10 rig would indeed be louder than the 2x10 + 2x10 rig. A fact that I conceded from the beginning. But the 4x10 will always be hobbled by the 2x10. That's a stone cold fact. "Sorry."

Speakers are an electro-magnetic motor attached to a cone. They will move the same amount with a given power input, six identical speakers will move the same amount as four identical speakers with the same input power.

They won't share the power equally. That's the whole point. The speakers in the 2x10 will be getting more watts per driver than the speakers in the 4x10. The 4x10 cab will never get as loud as it can go. Ever. Period. The end.

 

[Hopkins]

It really kind of does. It's not perfect, but it illustrates something important. The 2x10 + 4x10 rig would indeed be louder than the 2x10 + 2x10 rig. A fact that I conceded from the beginning. But the 4x10 will always be hobbled by the 2x10. That's a stone cold fact. "Sorry."

I would be more concerned about pushing the 210 to hard because the signs of distress are being drowned out by the 410. Ive had this happen before.

 

[scottfeldstein]

Yeah that's a definite risk.

 

[B-string]

REALLY GUYS? They are rated at greater than the 350 watts the combo put out. THIS IS A COMBO amp. If you guys are serious I give, all those years in college, designing amp circuits and raw drivers are pointless
Carry on!

 

[Hopkins]

REALLY GUYS? They are rated at greater than the 350 watts the combo put out. THIS IS A COMBO amp. If you guys are serious I give, all those years in college, designing amp circuits and raw drivers are pointless
Carry on!

Sense when do speaker cab thermal ratings really mean anything.

 

[scottfeldstein]

REALLY GUYS? They are rated at greater than the 350 watts the combo put out. THIS IS A COMBO amp. If you guys are serious I give, all those years in college and designing amp circuits and raw drivers are pointless
Carry on!

I think we can get to the bottom of this misunderstanding/disagreement...

What exactly is rated at greater than 350w? The cab? Which one?

And besides, the amp is putting out a max of 350w only when in operation by itself, without an external cab attached. It's 500w with another 8 ohm cab. That's 250w each cab in that case.

What you may be overlooking is that what the cab is "rated" at watt-wise is pretty useless information. That's the power at which the driver will self-destruct. You needn't fear that. The cones will reach maximum excursion far before that happens. The cone will fart like an elephant in a bean factory far, far before too many watts will melt the driver. Thus, whatever the cab is "rated" at doesn't really tell you how many watts you can meaningfully push at it.

 

[Hopkins]

The cone will fart like an elephant in a bean factory far, far before too many watts will melt the driver.

Dude you just made me shoot sweet tea through my nose.

 

[B-string]

Sense when do speaker cab thermal ratings really mean anything.

I have no clue but you guys seem impressed by them? The need to "use the full potential" of that thermal rating?
The 2 10" drivers are "rated" at 200 watts RMS each, from there.......I'm done

 

[Hopkins]

I have no clue but you guys seem impressed by them? The need to "use the full potential" of that thermal rating?
The 2 10" drivers are "rated" at 200 watts RMS each, from there.......I'm done

I think you have me misunderstood. I feel no need to push my cabs to the limit. I'm saying that you could easily toast the 210s with the power that combo puts out if you start getting to loud. With a matching extension cab every speaker would receive the same power and therefore would be easier to hear the speaker showing signs of distress.

 

[scottfeldstein]

I have no clue but you guys seem impressed by them? The need to "use the full potential" of that thermal rating?
The 2 10" drivers are "rated" at 200 watts RMS each, from there.......I'm done

Go ahead and try putting 200w into one of those drivers. I'm sure the speaker will reach maximum excursion and start farting before you get anywhere near 200w.

When I say "full potential," I mean how loud you can make the thing go before it reaches max excursion. It's how many watts you can put into it before it starts to break up and sound like crap. And when you put an 8 ohm 4x10 cab with an 8 ohm 2x10 cab, the 2x10 cab will start farting far before the 4x10 one will. Thus, you will never be able to reach the 4x10s maximum volume because to do so will mean you're pushing the 2x10 beyond the point where it sounds good.

 

[B-string]

I think you have me misunderstood. I feel no need to push my cabs to the limit. I'm saying that you could easily toast the 210s with the power that combo puts out if you start getting to loud. With a matching extension cab every speaker would receive the same power and therefore would be easier to hear the speaker showing signs of distress.

Ok for you so you understand where I am coming from. Robert Gallien does not rate his equipment for "feel good" marketing slag. He was talked into mating a 1001RB II with a 210 for a combo ONCE. Not a shinning moment for G-Ks matching abilities. I am speaking in this thread to the OPs choice of one model from one manufacturer. If you match (yourself) a poorly rated 210 to a well rated 410 with an amp that can overpower that 210 then I agree completely.

 

[scottfeldstein]

Not that it matters to the point I'm making, but I've actually owned an MB210. And I spent a lot of time here getting schooled on exactly what the deal is with attaching external cabs to it. I want to make sure the OP understands the downside to putting a 4x10 under that combo. It's doable, but there's a downside to consider: some of your money and some of your sweat carrying it will be wasted, never realized as increased volume. And, as others have pointed out, you might well blow the 2x10s in an effort to get your money's worth out of the 4x10.

That's why I bought the 210MBE cab, as it's the most identical external cab you can put under the MB210 combo.