Glockenklang Blue Rock or Form Factor Bi 1000 ?

[BassikBrad]

I am an old 60's bass rocker & my final wild fling is one of these two amps.
I haven't seen any new comments on the FF & would welcome updated insightful opinions on these supposedly top world class amps.

 

[fast slapper]

The Steamhammer will be more interesting for rock if you're not using pedals.

 

[BassikBrad]

The Steamhammer will be more interesting for rock if you're not using pedals.

Why do you suggest this ? I like a 1000w headroom, the steam hammer is, I think 700w.

 

[fast slapper]

Capable of orverdriven tones. If you're concerned about power, consider a class D power amp like a Crest Prolite, Crown XLS, or any number of similar alternatives.

Add a nice pedal preamp and you're set.

 

[Munjibunga]

Glockenklang over Form Factor, but there's something funky about the Glock's power rating. I'd be interested in knowing the THD at 1,000 watts. Anyway, I'd round up a used Heart Rock II with 2.67-ohm option if weight wasn't an issue.

 

[MarkA]

I owned a Blue Rock for awhile and currently own a Heart Rock 2. Never owned the Form Factor amp, but I did spend some time playing it and the Blue Rock back and forth through an Aggie 410, a couple of years back, at Chicago Music Exchange. I've never played the Steamhammer or encountered one outside of Youtube clips and TB threads -- if you consult those, you'll know what I know about that amp.

The Blue Rock was nice. I liked it and would consider it a versatile and very gig-able amp. High quality preamp and DI, flexible signal routing and EQ, and the gain control, even before you get to overdrive, affects the feel and the harmonic profile of the amp. Also felt "dynamically honest" to me -- a lot of the other small amps I've played (including some of the most recent offerings) feel like they compress the dynamics -- sometimes even at low volumes, and sometimes unevenly (lowest octave or so will feel compressed, which some people like and which can be useful in some situations but, generally, frustrates me).

Compared to the HR2, though, the Blue Rock had less going on in the deepest lows, a little less detail in the mids, a slightly less sweet and detailed top end. The HR2 just felt a little more organic, more present, detailed, impactful -- more "there" than the Blue Rock. I asked Helge at Glockenklang about this and he said it was due to the differences in the power sections. I tried running the Blue Rock as a preamp into the Heart Rock 2, both through its effects return and its power amp input, and the resulting sound and feel were almost identical to running straight into the HR2, which would seem to bear this out.

The Form Factor amp seemed to have a little more grunt and edge to it than the Blue Rock -- a little more present overall, with more going on in the deep lows -- but the one that I played was a good deal noisier than the Blue Rock. (I think I played a pretty early one -- this might be something they've since fixed.) I'd played noisier amps -- but it was more than I wanted to hear out of an amp in that range. The EQ and feature set are more limited than that of the BR, but the basic sound was good and, if you don't tweak much, might well be enough.

There are some DIed and mic-ed clips of the Blue Rock in the top link in my sig.

Don't know if that helps, but there you go.

 

[BassikBrad]

Glockenklang over Form Factor, but there's something funky about the Glock's power rating. I'd be interested in knowing the THD at 1,000 watts. Anyway, I'd round up a used Heart Rock II with 2.67-ohm option if weight wasn't an issue.

Thanks for your input. Couldn't find any HR2,so settled on a used BR, despite your reservations of the power rating & THD. What is it that makes you question it ? I would appreciate further comment.

 

[Munjibunga]

Thanks for your input. Couldn't find any HR2,so settled on a used BR, despite your reservations of the power rating & THD. What is it that makes you question it ? I would appreciate further comment.

I'm a little confused and perhaps a little suspicious, given the way they describe the power ratings of the amp, e.g.:

Impedance switchable power either 1000 W / 4 ohm, 500 W / 8 ohm or 900 W / 2,7 ohm, 600 W / 4 ohm, 300 W / 8 ohm

Why the two ratings? Is it 1,000 watts at 4 ohms or 600 watts at 4 ohms? Or is it two different versions of the amp?

 

[BassikBrad]

I owned a Blue Rock for awhile and currently own a Heart Rock 2. Never owned the Form Factor amp, but I did spend some time playing it and the Blue Rock back and forth through an Aggie 410, a couple of years back, at Chicago Music Exchange. I've never played the Steamhammer or encountered one outside of Youtube clips and TB threads -- if you consult those, you'll know what I know about that amp.

The Blue Rock was nice. I liked it and would consider it a versatile and very gig-able amp. High quality preamp and DI, flexible signal routing and EQ, and the gain control, even before you get to overdrive, affects the feel and the harmonic profile of the amp. Also felt "dynamically honest" to me -- a lot of the other small amps I've played (including some of the most recent offerings) feel like they compress the dynamics -- sometimes even at low volumes, and sometimes unevenly (lowest octave or so will feel compressed, which some people like and which can be useful in some situations but, generally, frustrates me).

Compared to the HR2, though, the Blue Rock had less going on in the deepest lows, a little less detail in the mids, a slightly less sweet and detailed top end. The HR2 just felt a little more organic, more present, detailed, impactful -- more "there" than the Blue Rock. I asked Helge at Glockenklang about this and he said it was due to the differences in the power sections. I tried running the Blue Rock as a preamp into the Heart Rock 2, both through its effects return and its power amp input, and the resulting sound and feel were almost identical to running straight into the HR2, which would seem to bear this out.

The Form Factor amp seemed to have a little more grunt and edge to it than the Blue Rock -- a little more present overall, with more going on in the deep lows -- but the one that I played was a good deal noisier than the Blue Rock. (I think I played a pretty early one -- this might be something they've since fixed.) I'd played noisier amps -- but it was more than I wanted to hear out of an amp in that range. The EQ and feature set are more limited than that of the BR, but the basic sound was good and, if you don't tweak much, might well be enough.

There are some DIed and mic-ed clips of the Blue Rock in the top link in my sig.

Don't know if that helps, but there you go.

Well..... before I found your post, it transpires that I have just purchased your BR from Patrick !! I felt a little uneasy about the Form Factor, because I couldn't find any recent reviews or comments , which I thought was strange, to help make an informed choice. I had read all of your previous test observations with considerable interest , including the clips, which further muddled my thinking, haha. But having balanced my priorities the BR won. I will let you know what I think of it in a few weeks. Hopefully, it will provide more punch,character & sonic articulation that I am looking for, than my Carvin BX 1600, which I really love. Many thanks for your valuable input, it is much appreciated.

 

[BassikBrad]

I'm a little confused and perhaps a little suspicious, given the way they describe the power ratings of the amp, e.g.:

Impedance switchable power either 1000 W / 4 ohm, 500 W / 8 ohm or 900 W / 2,7 ohm, 600 W / 4 ohm, 300 W / 8 ohm

Why the two ratings? Is it 1,000 watts at 4 ohms or 600 watts at 4 ohms? Or is it two different versions of the amp?

Yes, I agree that puzzled me too. But I have seen specs. that didn't make sense on other equipment as well. Maybe an electronics expert could chime in on that one. It maybe that the power amp actually works in a more stable manner at 4ohms, I don't know. Has anybody, out there asked the GlockRock people ?

 

[Passinwind]

Yes, I agree that puzzled me too. But I have seen specs. that didn't make sense on other equipment as well. Maybe an electronics expert could chime in on that one. It maybe that the power amp actually works in a more stable manner at 4ohms, I don't know. Has anybody, out there asked the GlockRock people ?

Haven't asked, but I assume it's like the Mesa Subway where engaging the two ohm mode switch also knocks down the available power at 4 and 8 ohms.

 

[MarkA]

Well..... before I found your post, it transpires that I have just purchased your BR from Patrick !! I felt a little uneasy about the Form Factor, because I couldn't find any recent reviews or comments , which I thought was strange, to help make an informed choice. I had read all of your previous test observations with considerable interest , including the clips, which further muddled my thinking, haha. But having balanced my priorities the BR won. I will let you know what I think of it in a few weeks. Hopefully, it will provide more punch,character & sonic articulation that I am looking for, than my Carvin BX 1600, which I really love. Many thanks for your valuable input, it is much appreciated.

Cool. I hope it serves you well! Before you play with the EQ, spend some time with the Gain control. The Master volume is useable through its full range, too.

Haven't asked, but I assume it's like the Mesa Subway where engaging the two ohm mode switch also knocks down the available power at 4 and 8 ohms.

That is my understanding of its operation. Subjectively, I found it to be one of the harder-hitting small, class D bass heads I've played (not micro sized -- very close in size and shape to a Mesa Walkabout, but a little lighter).

 

[BassikBrad]

Thank you & yes, I have found that the correct amount of gain does affect the overall sound, & I have also discovered that adjusting the Eq by raising the frequencies both sides of a problem/ nasty area, as opposed to cutting that
frequency, whatever that may be, allows the gain to stay at the optimum drive & therefore maintains better
sound quality. Amps that don't have a gain control are at a disadvantage, thus forcing the user to spend a lot of time
making knob twiddling adjustments & critical listening, which I suppose, actually, is normal anyway for a lot of us
OCD bass players !
Regarding power output specs. I seem to recall in the past reading comments about certain power amps don't
like low impedance unless they were specifically designed for low impedance operation. So to avoid problems
a power limiter of some type is incorporated, I really don't know, as I'm an unqualified expert in that area.

 

[uwrossl]

The Form Factor head is pretty incredible but you are right that they don't have anything going on lately. No posts here on it and nothing happening with social media either. I have been in contact with them and am patiently waiting for them to roll out the upgraded version of the Bi1000. IMO the only short fall it had was the DI. It sounded great but could not be switched between pre and post. Any adjustments you'd make to your sound on stage with volume or eq would affect your FOH sound. They have been quick to respond through email and are scheduled to roll out the new version in the next month or so. Everything else about the amp is perfect for me. More power than you'd ever need and sounds almost perfect run flat and a fast punchy attack. Hoping they come through with the revamped version because I'll snatch one up the second it hits the market.

How are you liking the Blue Rock? Going to need options if Form Factor doesn't come through on their promise

 

[BassikBrad]

The Form Factor head is pretty incredible but you are right that they don't have anything going on lately. No posts here on it and nothing happening with social media either. I have been in contact with them and am patiently waiting for them to roll out the upgraded version of the Bi1000. IMO the only short fall it had was the DI. It sounded great but could not be switched between pre and post. Any adjustments you'd make to your sound on stage with volume or eq would affect your FOH sound. They have been quick to respond through email and are scheduled to roll out the new version in the next month or so. Everything else about the amp is perfect for me. More power than you'd ever need and sounds almost perfect run flat and a fast punchy attack. Hoping they come through with the revamped version because I'll snatch one up the second it hits the market.

How are you liking the Blue Rock? Going to need options if Form Factor doesn't come through on their promise

Hoping it arrives tomorrow ! But FedEX is so slow. Thanks for this interesting FF update. I will let you know what I think after several days of knob twiddling.

 

[RGK]

cut..

Compared to the HR2, though, the Blue Rock had less going on in the deepest lows, a little less detail in the mids, a slightly less sweet and detailed top end. The HR2 just felt a little more organic, more present, detailed, impactful -- more "there" than the Blue Rock. I asked Helge at Glockenklang about this and he said it was due to the differences in the power sections. I tried running the Blue Rock as a preamp into the Heart Rock 2, both through its effects return and its power amp input, and the resulting sound and feel were almost identical to running straight into the HR2, which would seem to bear this out.
.. cut

This is what I experienced when moving from the 400W Heart Core to the 1000W Heart Rock. I initially thought it was the same, only more power as my Heart Core sometimes ran extremely hot hence my upgrade. It was until I moved from the Heartrock to the 700W Blue Sky I got the Heartcore character back and I am happy again... There is a difference in pre-amp between the two which makes a lot of difference to me and the Blue Sky has the same class A pre amp as the Heart Core. Maybe you should try the Blue Sky before making a decision based on Watts.

 

[MarkA]

This is what I experienced when moving from the 400W Heart Core to the 1000W Heart Rock. I initially thought it was the same, only more power as my Heart Core sometimes ran extremely hot hence my upgrade. It was until I moved from the Heartrock to the 700W Blue Sky I got the Heartcore character back and I am happy again... There is a difference in pre-amp between the two which makes a lot of difference to me and the Blue Sky has the same class A pre amp as the Heart Core. Maybe you should try the Blue Sky before making a decision based on Watts.

The Blue Rock is rated at 500 Watts at 8 Ohms (the load I was running), the HR2 (the one I kept) at "only" 400 Watts (per the Glockenklang manuals). The preamps (which I listened to critically under a variety of circumstances) sounded very similar (though I preferred the EQ on the BR). I did mention that I played the BR through the HR2 power section. I also did the reverse. I don't believe that I "made a decision based on Watts." Regardless of the cause, I kept the one I enjoyed playing more and which, for me, offered superior performance. I'd have rather that it was the smaller, lighter one, but it wasn't.

 

[MarkA]

I was just on the Chicago Music Exchange website, idly browsing the amps section for a Glockenklang Blue Sky or Blue Rock or a stray Bass Art Classic preamp... I relayed my impressions of the Blue Rock (nice) vs. the Heart Rock II (nicer), but I don't have either amp anymore.

Also, I tested those amps with my MAS 112 (which I still have, and which is a stellar medium-to-loud gig cab) and, while that cab plays well with almost every amp or preamp I've ever plugged into it (which is a lot), it was just okay -- good, even, but not great -- with the Glock stuff, for some reason.

Before I sold the HR2, though, I played it through my then-recently-acquired Audiokinesis Hathor 1203 -- that might have been the best sound I've ever heard through that cab. The little Hathor, like the MAS, is "easy" with regard to matching amps -- seems to play well with just about everything I've plugged into it -- but it had a special synergy with the big Glock. I'd sold the Blue Rock before I got the Hathor, but started to think that, as much as I liked the HR2 with it, maybe the Blue Rock would be almost as nice. (Idle hands and all that -- I don't need to be amp shopping now. I don't need to be amp shopping now. I don't need...)

While doing that, I come across a listing for the Form Factor B1000 Di. Di? I don't recall that part. Could this be an update of the amp I played before? Lo and verily, 'tis:

Form Factor BI1000DI Bass Amp Head 1000W

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
​

My main beefs with the previous version (as I tried it at CME -- through an Aggie GS410, now that I think about it, among other cabs) were the noise (more hiss than an amp at that price should have) and the pre-only (or was it post-only?) DI. There are two DI outputs now (pre and post) and they cite improvements to the preamp (and to the build quality, overall). Perhaps those address the hiss (and who knows what other improvements there might be).

Relevent excerpt from the company blurb:

As with the new Bi500Di, the Bi1000Di has our state of the art pre-amp, which was designed from the ground up to deliver clarity, response time and incredible tone with complete control over the sound. But now the unit features a Direct Out, Pre and Post EQ (XLR) on the back as well as a headphone jack (1/4") on the front (with the volume controlled by the the Gain pot)

Other updates include more clarity in the pre-amp, improved tone profile as well as various improvements in build and performance, ensuring the unit will deliver the sound you want for decades to come.
​

The EQ is still limited, but I'll take a well-executed, limited EQ over an expansive, poorly-executed one (that said, I'd have to hear the thing again -- and at greater length, ideally with my cabs -- to decide how I felt about it). The amp has a 4 Ohm minimum load -- This is normally not an issue for me, but, for the first time ever, I have a 2.7 Ohm rig (two little Hathors and a Changeling 112), at least potentially -- not sure if I'll keep it that way, though. That doesn't mean that it's not a great amp but, from a marketing and flexibility standpoint, FF might be missing out a bit, there. Or maybe not.

I don't know what power module the amp uses. I recall that the original felt lively and powerful -- dynamic, but... maybe a bit unruly? I'm reaching back too far -- not enough time and circumstances weren't ideal -- so strike that. Can't say. Would have to play it again.

The BI1000 Di is listed at $1445 -- right in-line with a Berg Forte HP. The 500Di is $800 at CME.

 

[yodasfro]

Their website says using proprietary power modules About - Form Factor Audio

 

[MarkA]

Their website says using proprietary power modules About - Form Factor Audio

Thanks for pointing that out.

I wonder if that means they're rolling their own from scratch, having someone else build their design to their spec, or using a proprietary version of an existing power module (as often happens with OEM speakers for different companies). If the last, I'd be curious to know which, but the main thing, obviously, is how it performs (and how reliably).

My trial of the original version of the amp alongside the Blue Rock at CME was unfortunately brief -- it would be interesting to try the new one out more thoroughly, though I must repeat to myself the mantra from my previous post -- I don't need another amp...

The amps I'm favoring now, for the most part, have class AB power sections and linear power supplies. I know that it's not fashionable to assert -- and there are excellent class D bass amps out there -- but, despite the disadvantages of AB and linear supplies, I feel that the clarity, focus, and touch are (in the examples I've played) better and that they tend to be more free of unpleasant sonic artifacts (particularly if you push the amp, though not all class D modules are equal in this respect, either).

What I was looking for with the Blue Rock and the original BI1000 (and all the other compact amps I've tried over the years) is something that gets close enough to the best AB amps with respect to clarity, focus, touch and "naturalness of sound" (though that's harder to define -- I feel it might have something to do with the presence of different types of distortion, but I'm not sure, and being able to perceive something isn't the same as being able to quantify it and attribute it to a specific and definite phenomenon) that the tradeoffs made to get something higher-powered and more compact are small enough to be worthwhile. (Where the tipping point is in that equation will vary from person to person and situation to situation.)

Some of the compact amps outperform the big ones in certain respects -- power to weight, obviously, but others, too: The Blue Rock, for instance, felt a little faster and more direct (more linear in its dynamic response) than the Heart Rock 2 (though it was not as impactful, deep, or focused and sounded a little harsh in comparison -- again, though, played through the power section of the HR2, there was virtually no difference between the tone or feel of the two amps). Even the relatively inexpensive Peavey Minimega, while not in the league of the Blue Rock in other respects, hit at least as hard as that amp. The Genzler Magellan, while more colored (preamp) than the Blue Rock and less impactful (especially in the bottom octave), was cleaner (less harsh coloration/unpleasant artifacts) in a way. (I tried running each of those amps as a poweramp with different sources and each had its own feel and sonic imprint.)

I digress -- none of these nuances matter if your amp doesn't have the power to drive your rig properly at the volumes you require (which, with smaller AB amps and some less-efficient, modern cabs, can be an issue). But if you're going to obsess...

Anyway, I'd be curious to play the new Form Factor. If it's clean, even, focused, "natural sounding," and powerful with a good touch, that's the cake. A nicely-implemented EQ, good-but-unobtrusive protection from the super-low stuff, and whatever subtle "it" factor the amp might have would be icing on that cake. Sub-4 Ohm operation would be great but not necessarily (for me) a deal-breaker.

Edited for (some) clarity.​