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Going digital?

Hi, looking for some advice really, I have played in a wedding band for over 10 years now and over the years I have started to feel that I have mastered the art of running my own sound from the stage.

I currently run a Allan and Heath Zed24 analog desk which has been brilliant in fairness but recently I have wondered weather getting a digital desk might make things ever better/easier. I like the idea of being able to use an iPad out front of the stage while the rest of the band sound check. At the minute I am using my wireless to go out and check levels / EQs but any change I make I have to run back on to the stage then come back out and listen again. With an iPad/digital set up I would imagine this would help.

My question is, is this as easy as it sounds. I like to keep things as simple as possible at a gig as most of the time it’s a mad rush at weddings to get set up and sound check. The last thing I want to be doing is faffing around with routers ect.

Thanks in advance.
 
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There is a learning curve and there are some kinks.

My band is using a Behringer X-Air 18 for small gigs.

It is the centerpiece of our IEM system. In the rack, we have a 5ghz WiFi router (the X-Air has a router built in, which is terrible), a battery charging station for the IEM bodypacks, the IEM transmitters and a XLR splitter.
When we're playing on our own with a small PA, we just hook the output of the X-Air to the PA speakers and mix with an iPad.
On bigger stages with FOH provided, we still need that setup for our IEM. We connect everything like we always do, but now the splitter provides the split signals to FOH via Multicore. It's beautiful, it's simple and it works well.

As I said, there is a certain learning curve and some kinks that need ironing out. Some folks went digital and expected everything to run smoothly and perfectly from day one and at the first sign of a problem, they went back to analog.
Overall I personally have the impression that the pros outweigh the cons and by no small margin.
 
It depends largely on who you ask.....:D.

For me, I embraced the digital technology in the year 2000 when the Yamaha PM1D was released, then the PM5D which was more affordable for regional PA houses. I was also one of the first guys to realize that one could take the 5D's Editor software and run Remote Desktop from a Lenovo tablet to the IBM Thinkpad (later on, MacBook Pros and Airs) and actually run the thing remotely. It was a lot clumsier then, but better routers, iPad and other smart tablets, and the apps for this tablets came along later and made it much easier. I had to become better at computers and networking, but not to the point of getting a degree in networking.

And all of that remains the same. You must understand good wireless networking practices in order to make wireless tablet mixing practical and effective, but it's all so simple to make happen these days. Our own @s0c9 has made a tutorial on setting wireless routers and access points for effective wireless tablet mixing and it absolutely should be made into a sticky on this particular forum. I'm not sure where it can be found, maybe Steve will chime in on whether it's openly available and where it can be found.

The other thing is that it depends on you! The technology is there, it's proven, it's reliable, it's used by all kinds of industry professionals, and there's no reason in the world it shouldn't work. You have to be open to spend some time putting your rig together, setting it up properly, and maybe even playing with different components to make sure everything plays nicely together. There's several small-format digital consoles and rack mixers that are proven to work well with an assortment of routers. If you are a hands-on knob kinda guy, you have the small surfaces with enough knobs and faders to please most knob-o-phobes. I'm a rack mixer kinda guy and I use a Presonus 32R rack mixers. It's absolutely perfect for my live sound and live tracking session needs (most all of this small mixers will interface with recording software to output the individual channels directly into the recording software of your choice).

So the short response to this question is, it depends primarily on the user. Folks have tried it, swear it sucks and it's the work of the devil and moved back to analog (there can be a tad of truth to that work-of-the-devil part....:roflmao::roflmao:). And totally fine. Having choices is a great thing.
 
For small-to-medium shows, I cannot say enough good things about the Ui24r. It would take several giant racks of gear to replace what this little box can do, and it really sounds great (preamps are surprisingly good). Very intuitive to learn as well.

Can't imagine ever going back to an analog board.
 
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It depends largely on who you ask.....:D.

For me, I embraced the digital technology in the year 2000 when the Yamaha PM1D was released, then the PM5D which was more affordable for regional PA houses. I was also one of the first guys to realize that one could take the 5D's Editor software and run Remote Desktop from a Lenovo tablet to the IBM Thinkpad (later on, MacBook Pros and Airs) and actually run the thing remotely. It was a lot clumsier then, but better routers, iPad and other smart tablets, and the apps for this tablets came along later and made it much easier. I had to become better at computers and networking, but not to the point of getting a degree in networking.

And all of that remains the same. You must understand good wireless networking practices in order to make wireless tablet mixing practical and effective, but it's all so simple to make happen these days. Our own @s0c9 has made a tutorial on setting wireless routers and access points for effective wireless tablet mixing and it absolutely should be made into a sticky on this particular forum. I'm not sure where it can be found, maybe Steve will chime in on whether it's openly available and where it can be found.

The other thing is that it depends on you! The technology is there, it's proven, it's reliable, it's used by all kinds of industry professionals, and there's no reason in the world it shouldn't work. You have to be open to spend some time putting your rig together, setting it up properly, and maybe even playing with different components to make sure everything plays nicely together. There's several small-format digital consoles and rack mixers that are proven to work well with an assortment of routers. If you are a hands-on knob kinda guy, you have the small surfaces with enough knobs and faders to please most knob-o-phobes. I'm a rack mixer kinda guy and I use a Presonus 32R rack mixers. It's absolutely perfect for my live sound and live tracking session needs (most all of this small mixers will interface with recording software to output the individual channels directly into the recording software of your choice).

So the short response to this question is, it depends primarily on the user. Folks have tried it, swear it sucks and it's the work of the devil and moved back to analog (there can be a tad of truth to that work-of-the-devil part....:roflmao::roflmao:). And totally fine. Having choices is a great thing.

His tutorial in is his sig line. :)

Band WiFi for BEGINNERS
 
It depends largely on who you ask.....:D.

For me, I embraced the digital technology in the year 2000 when the Yamaha PM1D was released, then the PM5D which was more affordable for regional PA houses. I was also one of the first guys to realize that one could take the 5D's Editor software and run Remote Desktop from a Lenovo tablet to the IBM Thinkpad (later on, MacBook Pros and Airs) and actually run the thing remotely. It was a lot clumsier then, but better routers, iPad and other smart tablets, and the apps for this tablets came along later and made it much easier. I had to become better at computers and networking, but not to the point of getting a degree in networking.

And all of that remains the same. You must understand good wireless networking practices in order to make wireless tablet mixing practical and effective, but it's all so simple to make happen these days. Our own @s0c9 has made a tutorial on setting wireless routers and access points for effective wireless tablet mixing and it absolutely should be made into a sticky on this particular forum. I'm not sure where it can be found, maybe Steve will chime in on whether it's openly available and where it can be found.

The other thing is that it depends on you! The technology is there, it's proven, it's reliable, it's used by all kinds of industry professionals, and there's no reason in the world it shouldn't work. You have to be open to spend some time putting your rig together, setting it up properly, and maybe even playing with different components to make sure everything plays nicely together. There's several small-format digital consoles and rack mixers that are proven to work well with an assortment of routers. If you are a hands-on knob kinda guy, you have the small surfaces with enough knobs and faders to please most knob-o-phobes. I'm a rack mixer kinda guy and I use a Presonus 32R rack mixers. It's absolutely perfect for my live sound and live tracking session needs (most all of this small mixers will interface with recording software to output the individual channels directly into the recording software of your choice).

So the short response to this question is, it depends primarily on the user. Folks have tried it, swear it sucks and it's the work of the devil and moved back to analog (there can be a tad of truth to that work-of-the-devil part....:roflmao::roflmao:). And totally fine. Having choices is a great thing.


Oh whow, beautifully written. The part about networking is absolutely true. I keep forgetting that because by pure chance, the majority of members in my band know the difference between TCP and UDP and have a strong background in IT and/or networking - and I just assume that lotsh of people know the 101 of WiFi networking, which they don't.
 
For small-to-medium shows, I cannot say enough good things about the Ui24r. It would take several giant racks of gear to replace what this little box can do, and it really sounds great (preamps are surprisingly good). Very intuitive to learn as well.

Can't imagine ever going back to an analog board.
Our band started using the Soundcraft Ui16 for a few months in practice/rehersals and used it on our first gig. It sounds great running our PA and we also use it for recording rehersals. It's powerful, easy and intuitive, and priced reasonably as well.
 
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I've never had a networking problem at a gig. I connect my mixer to the router with a cable, so it's one less thing to worry about. Use a quality router, don't skimp here. I use an Apple router because Apple products just work well together.

Do spend some time getting you know the interface and how it works on your tablet. Practice at a few rehearsals before taking it live. It does everything you're hoping it will do AND gives you compressors, gates, and EQ's on every input and every output - something you can't get with analog unless you buy and bring a rack full of gear. You can save your scenes for easy recall next time you're in the same venue, and you can even do a virtual soundcheck using a recorded performance. You can't beat it.
 
There is a learning curve and there are some kinks.

My band is using a Behringer X-Air 18 for small gigs.

It is the centerpiece of our IEM system. In the rack, we have a 5ghz WiFi router (the X-Air has a router built in, which is terrible), a battery charging station for the IEM bodypacks, the IEM transmitters and a XLR splitter.
When we're playing on our own with a small PA, we just hook the output of the X-Air to the PA speakers and mix with an iPad.
On bigger stages with FOH provided, we still need that setup for our IEM. We connect everything like we always do, but now the splitter provides the split signals to FOH via Multicore. It's beautiful, it's simple and it works well.

As I said, there is a certain learning curve and some kinks that need ironing out. Some folks went digital and expected everything to run smoothly and perfectly from day one and at the first sign of a problem, they went back to analog.
Overall I personally have the impression that the pros outweigh the cons and by no small margin.

This. Exactly this.

Once you get through the learning curve, there's no turning back. The advantages to going digital are numerous.

One of my favorite advantages is the ability to save scenes. In other words, you can save a mix for future use. Once you get a dozen or so scenes saved, you have a pretty good starting point for almost any venue. If you play a certain venues over and over, save it under the name of the venue. Otherwise, you can save mixes with titles like "small dry room" or something like that.
 
It depends largely on who you ask.....:D.

For me, I embraced the digital technology in the year 2000 when the Yamaha PM1D was released, then the PM5D which was more affordable for regional PA houses. I was also one of the first guys to realize that one could take the 5D's Editor software and run Remote Desktop from a Lenovo tablet to the IBM Thinkpad (later on, MacBook Pros and Airs) and actually run the thing remotely. It was a lot clumsier then, but better routers, iPad and other smart tablets, and the apps for this tablets came along later and made it much easier. I had to become better at computers and networking, but not to the point of getting a degree in networking.

And all of that remains the same. You must understand good wireless networking practices in order to make wireless tablet mixing practical and effective, but it's all so simple to make happen these days. Our own @s0c9 has made a tutorial on setting wireless routers and access points for effective wireless tablet mixing and it absolutely should be made into a sticky on this particular forum. I'm not sure where it can be found, maybe Steve will chime in on whether it's openly available and where it can be found.

The other thing is that it depends on you! The technology is there, it's proven, it's reliable, it's used by all kinds of industry professionals, and there's no reason in the world it shouldn't work. You have to be open to spend some time putting your rig together, setting it up properly, and maybe even playing with different components to make sure everything plays nicely together. There's several small-format digital consoles and rack mixers that are proven to work well with an assortment of routers. If you are a hands-on knob kinda guy, you have the small surfaces with enough knobs and faders to please most knob-o-phobes. I'm a rack mixer kinda guy and I use a Presonus 32R rack mixers. It's absolutely perfect for my live sound and live tracking session needs (most all of this small mixers will interface with recording software to output the individual channels directly into the recording software of your choice).

So the short response to this question is, it depends primarily on the user. Folks have tried it, swear it sucks and it's the work of the devil and moved back to analog (there can be a tad of truth to that work-of-the-devil part....:roflmao::roflmao:). And totally fine. Having choices is a great thing.
The link is in my sig, and I update it as new information becomes available.
 
Hi, looking for some advice really, I have played in a wedding band for over 10 years now and over the years I have started to feel that I have mastered the art of running my own sound from the stage.

I currently run a Allan and Heath Zed24 analog desk which has been brilliant in fairness but recently I have wondered weather getting a digital desk might make things ever better/easier. I like the idea of being able to use an iPad out front of the stage while the rest of the band sound check. At the minute I am using my wireless to go out and check levels / EQs but any change I make I have to run back on to the stage then come back out and listen again. With an iPad/digital set up I would imagine this would help.

My question is, is this as easy as it sounds. I like to keep things as simple as possible at a gig as most of the time it’s a mad rush at weddings to get set up and sound check. The last thing I want to be doing is faffing around with routers ect.

Thanks in advance.
I sometimes play where the soundman works from an iPad. He can check the mix from anywhere in the room. His Allen & Heath has a port for a hard drive. He can save each channel for mixing down to a release.
 
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I've never had a networking problem at a gig. I connect my mixer to the router with a cable, so it's one less thing to worry about. Use a quality router, don't skimp here. I use an Apple router because Apple products just work well together.

Do spend some time getting you know the interface and how it works on your tablet. Practice at a few rehearsals before taking it live. It does everything you're hoping it will do AND gives you compressors, gates, and EQ's on every input and every output - something you can't get with analog unless you buy and bring a rack full of gear. You can save your scenes for easy recall next time you're in the same venue, and you can even do a virtual soundcheck using a recorded performance. You can't beat it.
A word to the wise for those going to digital for the 1st time. Yes, you GET gates and compressor’s and effects capability on every channel and some allow them on output busses. Because they are there does NOT MEAN YOU NEED TO USE THEM!!!!
If you’re not familiar with gates/compressors, don’t use them until you get up to speed on them. Incorrect use can make your mix suck.
EQ and effects are fairly straightforward, but judiciousness of both is the key. Cut EQ vs boost. Don’t put too much reverb/delay in FOH. Do NOT put pitch corrected vocal mixes in the monitors, and so on .
You’ll be fine with some practice.
Use external Wi-Fi devices, read the doc in my sig. It’s NOT all encompassing, it’s a primer for noobs!
 
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I sometimes play where the soundman works from an iPad. He can check the mix from anywhere in the room. His Allen & Heath has a port for a hard drive. He can save each channel for mixing down to a release.
Other than church on Sunday, I haven’t mixed on a console in a few yrs. Even at church, I tend to bring my own tablet/iPad to mix on, even with the console right there.
 
Other than church on Sunday, I haven’t mixed on a console in a few yrs. Even at church, I tend to bring my own tablet/iPad to mix on, even with the console right there.

One of my criteria for telling whether we have a good sound person (I'm on in ears, I can't hear the house mix) is seeing them actually LEAVE the booth and listen from various places in the audience. You're mixing for an audience, not for the people in the booth. This is also my caveat about mixing from the stage - you have to have your ears in the right place(s) when you do a mix; if it sounds good behind the PA (on stage), it's probably far from ideal where it needs to be good.
 
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Sunday I experienced the downside of digital. So many problems and the sound people staring at their I pads. Give me analog any day of the week, so much faster at getting a soundcheck and diagnosing problems.
 
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Sunday I experienced the downside of digital. So many problems and the sound people staring at their I pads. Give me analog any day of the week, so much faster at getting a soundcheck and diagnosing problems.

Below is more or less what my job looked like back in the Dark Ages (stacked boxes, analog desk, racks of equipment). Takes all day to set up and troubleshoot. You want to go back to THAT? Whatever downsides digital has pale in comparison to the brain damage caused by operating even a modest analog rig. Could do that gig with a <1000$ digital mixer like Ui24R, and sound a lot better, or pony up a little more cash for some faders.

station.jpg
 
Typically, a digital mixer will give you way more processing power than analog. In order to use this processing power effectively, you have to understand how it works and how to access and adjust the various functions. Using a control surface tends to be fairly intuitive, as long as you understand what buttons to push and how it effects the layout of the control surface. Each control may have multiple functions.

You typically get a bunch of faders. Each fader controls a different channel. But you can have layers as well. Say the board has 16 channels but is set up for two fader levels to cover 32 channels. Fader level A will be channels 1-16 and fader level B will be channels 17-32. In this case each fader controls two channels, but only one at a time. So you have to be aware which fader level you are actually on.

You may also be able to use the faders for different functions. For example, the boards I used could be setup to put the aux sends on faders or assign the sliders of a graphic EQ to the faders.

The aux send levels could also be accessed second way. They appeared in a sub menu of the selected channel with rotary controls. Most of time I preferred using the aux send on fader menu to set levels, but sometimes the selected channel sub menu was a better choice.

upload_2022-8-9_15-40-37.png


AFAIK most digital mixers use a selected channel format for most of the controls you find on the channel strips. So if you want to adjust the EQ on channel 13, you select main fader level A, and the select channel 13 before adjusted adjusting the controls on the selected channel portion of the control surface.

There is also likely to be range of different virtual menus you need to understand to either configure the board or to access advance features.

The process for accessing and adjusting tends to be a bit different on a tablet, and some features and functions may not even be available on the tablet surface. Sometimes you have the option of configuring what functions are available via tablet, and you also may be able to configure which menus are on top. Since you are planning to use the tablet for mixing, you will want access to the main faders, selected channel section, aux sends, etc.

If you were planning on mixing on a physical control surface, you might configure the tablet to show some of the more commonly accessed sub menus. The idea is you are extending the functionality with value-added apps, rather than using the tablet as a primary mixing surface.

In your case, you could consider setting up the tablet as your primary control surface during sound check. Then during the show, you could mix on the physical control surface and set the tablet up to expand your view, so you don't have to step through sub menus to get to a critical function that my require quick access.

I resisted going digital for quite a while. When I finally started working with a digital board, I found it to be way more efficient. I also found that my mixes sounded significantly better.

To me the biggest disadvantage with digital is maintaining familiarity with the interface so that you can quickly and reliably step through the menus and make the exact adjustment you intend to make. I mixed on Yamaha digital mixers. A problem I had is doing to exact key combination to go from the main mix to the aux on fader screen. I found that frequently I was selecting the matrix on fader screen. So I sometimes wound up making the desired adjustments in the wrong place.

If I have not mixed for awhile, I like to pull the board out and hook up some speakers to practice going through the necessary menus and sub menus. If available, it's a good idea to have access to the manual. I personally prefer searching for solutions with soft copy on a computer, but if it is available, I prefer to read from the hard copy manual (way less confusing and easier on the eyes IMHO).

Gool Luck!
 
Below is more or less what my job looked like back in the Dark Ages (stacked boxes, analog desk, racks of equipment). Takes all day to set up and troubleshoot. You want to go back to THAT? Whatever downsides digital has pale in comparison to the brain damage caused by operating even a modest analog rig. Could do that gig with a <1000$ digital mixer like Ui24R, and sound a lot better, or pony up a little more cash for some faders.

View attachment 4777147

I did that for 30 years, had a 32k watt system. Didn't take me all day to set up. And could do any band live with no sound check.
 

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