Gold/Copper Leafing already finished instrument?

[lyralain]

Hey all- I've been eyeing an Ibanez EHB1005MS, and while I think the sea foam is gorgeous, the black is more 'me'.

I do think it's a bit boring though. One idea had was to haphazardly copper/gold leaf the edges- really irregular tears, letting the size dry a bit too long, that kind of thing. Having gold encroaching on the body in a way that's organic.

Do you think this would work? Will size that's not covered in leaf leave marks on the underlying black finish / will I need to refinish the whole bass? Is there a way to remove some leaf after the fact to shape it, without damaging the underlying finish? Any other tips/tricks?

 

[Barticus]

I did a bunch of goldleaf back in the 1900s

It was always pretty fragile so I either made sure to band the edges of it with some kind of outline and then clear over top of it or at least clear it to make sure it was protected.

I know you wanted it to look organic but maybe you could mask off the areas that you don’t want the size to be on so you have some type of defined edge that you could then clear up to you to protect the leaf. Your mask could actually be some type of rough cut think of like a mask that might be used for airbrushing or it’s kind of a rougher torn edge but at least you have some type of edge to clear up to to protect the leaf.

I found a couple of old portfolio pictures from the 80s of stuff that I had done and wow does that seem like a lifetime ago

Here are some bad photographs of a bad photograph

 

[lyralain]

Your mask could actually be some type of rough cut think of like a mask that might be used for airbrushing or it’s kind of a rougher torn edge but at least you have some type of edge to clear up to to protect the leaf.

That's a great idea. Could design a mask both to keep the size off the rest of the bass, and to plan out ahead of time how I want the design to look. If I get the dimensions of the front & body right in my computer I could mock up a design and send that off to somebody to cut with a Silhouette or Cricut or similar.

Any ideas on a top coat that'd seal the foil without disturbing the existing black satin finish too much? Anything I'd need to do to the existing finish before applying size?

 

[Barticus]

That's a great idea. Could design a mask both to keep the size off the rest of the bass, and to plan out ahead of time how I want the design to look. If I get the dimensions of the front & body right in my computer I could mock up a design and send that off to somebody to cut with a Silhouette or Cricut or similar.

Any ideas on a top coat that'd seal the foil without disturbing the existing black satin finish too much? Anything I'd need to do to the existing finish before applying size?

I would scuff the surface (how much depends on the current clear matte or gloss) with at lease some Scotchbright (Gray). Depends on your setup (if you're setup to spray of need to use spray can) as to the type of clear to use you could go water or lacquer based on the gold once applied.

 

[bolophonic]

I’ve gilded two basses. I generally prefer oil gilding aluminum, brass, and copper. I have only water gilded gold and silver. I just went right over the poly. When gilding an heirloom picture frame (where I learned gilding), you want to have the smoothest possible surface — just like a guitar finish.

For a top coat, you will want something that is non-mineral spirit based. I prefer shellac, which is alcohol based and will protect the gilded surface without dissolving your size. A water based varnish would also work. You can easily remove a botched layer of gild with a piece of 0000 steel wool soaked in mineral spirits.

I can’t find any photos of the basses I did. I never fell in love with them. I sold one and gave the other away.

 

[bolophonic]

Also: have you given any thought to what you want your final look to be? The reason I ask is that most raw gilded surfaces are pretty brash and shiny and weird looking. To really bring out the depth and intricacies of the variegation of the two metals, you will need to apply a glaze or a patina of some sort. That is a whole ‘nother thing.

 

[lyralain]

I generally prefer oil gilding aluminum, brass, and copper. I have only water gilded gold and silver. I just went right over the poly.

Not entirely sure what the existing topcoat is on an EHB1005MS is, it's a satin/matte- [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Unsure if I could also just lay the leaf over that. Also fwiw I may opt for copper over gold, not sure yet, both could give a similar effect to what I'm after.

Also: have you given any thought to what you want your final look to be? The reason I ask is that most raw gilded surfaces are pretty brash and shiny and weird looking.

I'm looking to have irregular metal splotches eating at the sides of the bass. Very irregular & intricate, lots of texture (visually), organic. Not after a super polished gold.

...buuut one alternate consideration would just be doing a gold symbol or lettering where I am going for a very polished mirror finish. Or even just a line following the body's curvature from one strap peg to the other. Potentially less application work, more finishing work though for a perfect shine.

 

[Beej]

Have you looked through Gildaxe for ideas yet? https://www.gildaxe.com/

At some point @JIO may chime in.

 

[1n3]

I'm looking to have irregular metal splotches eating at the sides of the bass. Very irregular & intricate, lots of texture (visually), organic. Not after a super polished gold.

From this, I wonder if you'd be better off with metallic paint, applied by stamping rather than by brush or spray. Some little Testors bottles would be a cheap experiment.

 

[JIO]

Just got this back from Pat Wilkins who did the final-finishing (clear-coat) on it. Variegated black, blue and silver-leaf over silver.

This is a gilded/painted "shatter-burst" finish I did many years ago. Did etched silver-leaf over a black finish/red orb and hand-finished in tung-oil.

Variegated yellow gold-leaf over factory tobacco, final finished by Pat.

Gold-leaf over factory black finish, hand clear-coated with gloss alkyd poly clear. Irregular but less background left open and with slight relic'ing, more as punctuation marks.

Variegated figured blue gold-leaf. Figuring is created with a heat-process.

Distressed gold-leaf over red-oxide, final-finished by Pat.

 

[lyralain]

This is a gilded/painted "shatter-burst" finish I did many years ago. Did etched silver-leaf over a black finish/red orb and hand-finished in tung-oil.

Oooooo, how'd you approach the shatter burst? What I was feeling was very similar, but much more mild- most of the leaf confined to sides of the body, but with some migrating towards the center / wrapping around the edges.

 

[JIO]

Oooooo, how'd you approach the shatter burst? What I was feeling was very similar, but much more mild- most of the leaf confined to sides of the body, but with some migrating towards the center / wrapping around the edges.

My concept was as if the red 'orb' was bursting through/out shattering the gilding.., and also a word play on sun-burst.

Copper-leaf/dyed multi-lam maple

Another (variegated yellow gold-leaf - front of the 3rd pic above) "shatter-burst" over a factory finish.

 

[lyralain]

From this, I wonder if you'd be better off with metallic paint, applied by stamping rather than by brush or spray. Some little Testors bottles would be a cheap experiment.

any tips? type of paint, a specific gold to use...

I don't think it'd work for my 'gold eating the edges' idea but it could for doing a symbol, or accenting the body shape with gold- such as the cutout between the neck and top strap peg, or underneath the tuning hardware. If I don't bother sealing it with something that means less work, not messing with the existing finish, and it wearing over time in a way that might look cool / leave glittery bits elsewhere

 

[1n3]

any tips? type of paint, a specific gold to use...

I don't think it'd work for my 'gold eating the edges' idea but it could for doing a symbol, or accenting the body shape with gold- such as the cutout between the neck and top strap peg, or underneath the tuning hardware. If I don't bother sealing it with something that means less work, not messing with the existing finish, and it wearing over time in a way that might look cool / leave glittery bits elsewhere

If you imagine a rubber stamp or wood block printing, you probably would think of shapes. But I imagined irregular applicators such as a sponge, wadded-up fabric, bunched grass, etc, possibly with paint first applied to an applicator with a brush or by drops. Or maybe you'd start by flinging drops on the bass body first. Many possibilities... With enough care and skill, you might get something that meets your 'gold eating the edges' look.

I don't mean to knock gold leaf methods. JIO's examples are stunning. But from what little I know about gilding, that's a skill that doesn't come quickly or cheaply. You wouldn't get that look with metallic paint, but paint would be easier and cheaper.

 

[dwizum]

@JIO that red and gold bass is absolutely amazing, what a work of art!

 

[Matt Liebenau]

I know you’re probably not using Createx paints but the Saran Wrap technique might work if you decide to go with paint instead of leaf? As always, experiment on scrap first.

 

[1n3]

Yup. And seeing saran wrap used as an applicator makes me think crinkled aluminum foil might work even better, at least as I imagine the desired effect. Really in the realm of art here.

 

[JIO]

@JIO that red and gold bass is absolutely amazing, what a work of art!

Thank you! I made two - the same but different wood. The other recently sold.

I replaced the black control plate (above) with a blackened brass one. Body is roasted-ash, neck is wedge w/an ebony fb.

 

[lyralain]

My left ear really enjoyed that, lol!

That's a super cool technique, looks great.

Any idea of a cheap flat black paint I could practice over that might be similar to the EHB1005MS?

 

[Matt Liebenau]

I don’t know what finish Ibanez used. Probably a polyester or polyurethane. Rustoleum has a brush on black water based paint you could use on scrap. Maybe dye or stain the scrap black and use a brush on or wipe on polyurethane clear over that or tint the polyurethane with TransTint or Mixol black.