Double Bass Gollihur vs. Upton basses

[GaryLC]

Hey folks,

Just wanted some opinions on what you guys thought about "equivalent" price basses from Upton vs. Gollihur. I know there are so many differences (ply, carved, hybrid), just wanted some stories from both sides.

 

[lurk]

I've had students bring in entry level plys from both. In that very small sample size, the Gollihur won. The best bang for the buck cheap bass I've seen is the hybrid from String Emporium. Remember, this is a very small sample size and if possible try to play a bass before buying.

 

[Len S]

Too bad you are so far upstate in NY. I have a fully carved Bulgarian Kremona from Gollihur from 2001. I'm selling for $2,250 with brand new Pirastro Perpetuals on it. I upgraded to a New Standard a few months ago, and this one is now sitting idly by waiting for someone to enjoy. It's a great instrument...plays awesome and extremely stable.

 

[BobKay]

I'm very happy with my two Uptons. Keep in mind, made in America was a major factor in my choice when I purchased my first Upton hybrid, and remains important to me. I'm sure I could have found a Shen or Eastman or something from Gollihur that would be fine, and perhaps better (depending on setup) but the country of origin mattered to me. There are certainly many on the forum for whom that is not an important consideration, and that's OK too.

 

[damonsmith]

It isn't one to one when you compare prices, it is going to make more sense to compare models.
If you are looking for the most bass for your money Upton is not for you. You pay a premium for brand, service and being made in New England - many people find this worth it.
If you need all your money to go to the quality of the bass then a bass from Golihur is a better way to go, or a Shen or even an older European shop bass.
For some, Upton is a great experience, however, it is not "the best deal" you can get in terms of $$ to quality of the instrument.

 

[gogogergie1]

Take the drive out to see Mark Leue- he’s a little under 2hrs from you but will have all sort of different basses for you to try for any skill level.
https://www.theluthier.us/

 

[sean_on_bass]

I would think the comparable models at Gollihur would be less expensive and still quality instruments due to being made overseas. With that said, Upton seems to have alot of basses, used, that may add up to you finding a better instrument if you work with them on the purchase. Keep the Gollihur on your list, but i would also call Upton to see what they have available used in your budget range. If you get some good leads you can make a day trip to Mystic to try out the basses and maybe come home with one. IMO of course.

 

[damonsmith]

There are more brands out there that either more reliable or more predictable. I think the double bass is still not about brands.
I think I have found the clear language that voices my concerns with Upton - which is that the $1000 or more premium you are paying goes a long way in terms of quality in a lower end bass.
Whether it is about brand loyalty or buy American ideology, we need to be responsible and honest in our recommendations.
There is a big difference between 3k, 4k & 5K on the "open" bass market.
We can debate Shens and Uptons all day, but in nearly 30 years of playing every well maintained and set up European shop bass I've payed blows all Shens and Uptons out of the water. You can find fully carved older European basses for under 5K in most parts of the US. We all love finding a brand we can trust so we stop looking and researching, but unlike a record label or book publisher, there is enough more at stake with a double bass so that it is just worth doing the research.
One of my NY colleagues bought a fully carved bass once owned by Tommy Potter for less than an Upton hybrid.
Uptons are solid, but you could spend that extra $1000 to get something really great.
That said, if you have an extra $1000 to burn on being made in the USA and that is important to you, you will be very happy.

I would think the comparable models at Gollihur would be less expensive and still quality instruments due to being made overseas. With that said, Upton seems to have alot of basses, used, that may add up to you finding a better instrument if you work with them on the purchase. Keep the Gollihur on your list, but i would also call Upton to see what they have available used in your budget range. If you get some good leads you can make a day trip to Mystic to try out the basses and maybe come home with one. IMO of course.

 

[BobKay]

That said, if you have an extra $1000 to burn on being made in the USA and that is important to you, you will be very happy.

Well said, Damon. I did, and I am.

 

[mattj1stc]

I think that the original question is kind of mixing apples and oranges. Gollihur is mainly an internet retailer. They buy basses in China that they finish setting up in the US. They mainly target instruments to students and hobby players looking for good value. They are perfectly fine for what they are. They are not in the "cheap bass shaped object" business, but they are state pretty clearly on their website that they are not in the $5k+ end of the market either (they suggest the traditional route of trying one out in person). There are other companies with a similar business model (String Emporium, etc.).

Alternatively, Upton is more of a custom/boutique manufacturer. Their price points are higher not just due to labor costs, but because they produce in small batches and allow a great deal of customization. When you contact Gollihur, you can choose from what they have on hand, but if what they have on hand is what you want, you can get it quickly. When you contact Upton, they may have a few models on hand (theirs and other brands, new and used) but mostly you are commissioning a new instrument that will be made for you, even if you order a "standard" model and that may take some time to create. Upton is also perfectly fine for what it is. I would expect that the quality of the Upton to be generally higher (both initial and over time), but then again, you are paying more. I don't know of too many other US manufacturers who do what Upton does at the scale they operate on, but there may be some.

Of course, someone could always go the more traditional route and work with a bass shop, luthier or an individual seller and try out a bass in person. If you're spending over $5k, you definitely should go this route. If you're trying to spend less than a Gollihur type of situation, then I would avoid it.

 

[Ed S]

I think that the original question is kind of mixing apples and oranges. ...

Well, yes and no. If I am not mistaken, the Upton Std is pretty much non-customizable. If you order one, there is a delay while it is built, but other than strings and setup for your preference, it is a standard instrument. Why could that not be compared to Gollihur's options? As I read Gollihur's site, their $1650 bass includes "custom set up," including choice of strings, adjustable bridge, etc. Same for Gollihur's $2500 hybrid and $2825 carved.

Even tho Upton allows customization on its pricier models, I still would think comparison is possible w/ Upton Stds at $2995 ply, $3995 hybrid, and $4950 carved.

Gollihur does not allow you to choose finish color, but you can decide how much that is worth to you.
Base Bohemian is $3250 ply. $4250 hybrid. $6k carved. Pretty much any additional customization comes at added cost.

 

[damonsmith]

Disclaimer: My post is about recommendations, and not a criticism of any bass anyone may own or love:
This post isn't that accurate. While Upton does some higher end basses, and the customization aspect is correct, they mainly produce basses in the lower end with a premium for it to be made in New England (higher priced that just made in USA). Generally, they are putting out basses that are comparable to what Shen does.
The part that is true is that you are generally commissioning a bass from them, and their prices are fair enough for commissioning a bass from scratch in the US.
You are not really going to get a GREAT handmade bass until you spend at least 10-15K or more. So they are targeting a niche market that wants a shiny new bass made in the US - that are, in fact comparable with what Gollihur offers.
When evaluating for sound and quality, we are looking at all the basses already in the world.

Alternatively, Upton is more of a custom/boutique manufacturer. Their price points are higher not just due to labor costs, but because they produce in small batches and allow a great deal of customization. When you contact Gollihur, you can choose from what they have on hand, but if what they have on hand is what you want, you can get it quickly. When you contact Upton, they may have a few models on hand (theirs and other brands, new and used) but mostly you are commissioning a new instrument that will be made for you, even if you order a "standard" model and that may take some time to create. Upton is also perfectly fine for what it is. I would expect that the quality of the Upton to be generally higher (both initial and over time), but then again, you are paying more. I don't know of too many other US manufacturers who do what Upton does at the scale they operate on, but there may be some.

 

[mattj1stc]

Well, yes and no. If I am not mistaken, the Upton Std is pretty much non-customizable. If you order one, there is a delay while it is built, but other than strings and setup for your preference, it is a standard instrument. Why could that not be compared to Gollihur's options? As I read Gollihur's site, their $1650 bass includes "custom set up," including choice of strings, adjustable bridge, etc. Same for Gollihur's $2500 hybrid and $2825 carved.

Even tho Upton allows customization on its pricier models, I still would think comparison is possible w/ Upton Stds at $2995 ply, $3995 hybrid, and $4950 carved.

Gollihur does not allow you to choose finish color, but you can decide how much that is worth to you.
Base Bohemian is $3250 ply. $4250 hybrid. $6k carved. Pretty much any additional customization comes at added cost.

We may be saying similar things differently. To me, if the baseline laminate from one is almost twice the price of the other, then I do think we’re talking about different entry points in the market. It’s similar for hybrids and carved models. I’m not making a judgement as to which is a better value or better quality. I just see them as different - different pricing and different production scales. Simply, a mass produced Chinese bass that is lower cost, immediately available and not customizable is different than a one-off American bass that is nearly double and very customizable, but they make it for you. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[nogbert]

I just see them as different - different pricing and different production scales. Simply, a mass produced Chinese bass that is lower cost, immediately available and not customizable is different than a one-off American bass that is nearly double and very customizable, but they make it for you. Different strokes for different folks.

the Upton standard line is anything but "one-off" or "very customizable", that is the point that Ed is trying to make I think. the $2995, $3995 and $4950 standard basses referenced by Ed are not customizable and therefore should be fair game for comparison to any other "mass produced" bass. For all intents and purposes the Standard line is mass produced, it's just that the mass is much smaller. All the design/materials/processing steps for each instrument are identical. If im not mistaken Upton even makes them in batches/production runs.

i do agree that comparing to any of their higher end/actually custom stuff is less of a fair comparison though.

 

[mattj1stc]

Disclaimer: My post is about recommendations, and not a criticism of any bass anyone may own or love:
This post isn't that accurate. While Upton does some higher end basses, and the customization aspect is correct, they mainly produce basses in the lower end with a premium for it to be made in New England (higher priced that just made in USA). Generally, they are putting out basses that are comparable to what Shen does.
The part that is true is that you are generally commissioning a bass from them, and their prices are fair enough for commissioning a bass from scratch in the US.
You are not really going to get a GREAT handmade bass until you spend at least 10-15K or more. So they are targeting a niche market that wants a shiny new bass made in the US - that are, in fact comparable with what Gollihur offers.
When evaluating for sound and quality, we are looking at all the basses already in the world.

Similar to my repose to another poster, I don’t necessarily disagree with you or want to recommend one over the other. I mostly want to say that I see them as offering different things. If I want a mass produced but likely solidly made bass right now at a good price, I’d be looking at Gollihur or String Emporium. If you want to build a dream bass, like a 5 string hybrid Mittenwald inspired model and you’re willing to pay for what you want and wait for it to be made for you, then I’d be going Upton.

Adding Shen into the mix for quality comparisons is also a little apples and oranges as they operate under the 3rd business model - they are mass produced in China, but sold through local dealers, so you can try one out. Similar to my comments about Gollihur and Upton, Shens are perfectly fine for what they are too. Which is better? Which is better for you? You have to try to find out. Again, different strokes for different folks.

 

[Ed S]

the Upton standard line is anything but "one-off" or "very customizable", that is the point that Ed is trying to make I think. ...

You are correct.

I am not entirely sure what matt is trying to say, or what the basis is for any confusion between the 2 of us.

I have ZERO experience w/ Upton Stds - or the Gollihur product. I would be curious as to what Upton - or any owners/users - had to say about their plys and others in comparison to others' similar offerings. I am a very satisfied owner of a somewhat upgraded Upton hybrid, but I have not conducted an exhaustive comparison of my bass w/ other hybrids at any price points.

One point that is always in my mind. My wife completed violin-making school approx 10 yrs ago. While she was in school, it became VERY apparent to her that an average caliber luthier simply could not compete in terms of price and quality w/ lower-medium range fiddles being mass produced in China. Probably the sweetest spot would be to buy a quality Chinese box in the white, and have it finished and setup by an American pro. Her post-school experience has done nothing to change her opinion.

Judge for yourself the extent to which my wife's experience translates to the bass world.

 

[damonsmith]

Yes, this is exactly the point, when I say they are on par with Shen, it is no insult. Those are also very solid basses. It is not apples and oranges by any means.

One point that is always in my mind. My wife completed violin-making school approx 10 yrs ago. While she was in school, it became VERY apparent to her that an average caliber luthier simply could not compete in terms of price and quality w/ lower-medium range fiddles being mass produced in China. Probably the sweetest spot would be to buy a quality Chinese box in the white, and have it finished and setup by an American pro. Her post-school experience has done nothing to change her opinion.

Judge for yourself the extent to which my wife's experience translates to the bass world.

 

[Sam Sherry]

My wife completed violin-making school approx 10 yrs ago. While she was in school, it became VERY apparent to her that an average caliber luthier simply could not compete in terms of price and quality w/ lower-medium range fiddles being mass produced in China. Probably the sweetest spot would be to buy a quality Chinese box in the white, and have it finished and setup by an American pro. Her post-school experience has done nothing to change her opinion.

Judge for yourself the extent to which my wife's experience translates to the bass world.

In 2008 the Uptons decided to stop importing instruments from Eastern Europe and instead import jobs from Eastern Europe to Eastern Connecticut. People told them that they could not compete with China and Eastern Europe on price or quality. At least one of those folks owned a fully tooled-up string-instrument factory, and I bet that guy kicks himself sometimes for not trying. 10-15 years later the Uptons are the largest builder of double basses in the US. No, you can't pay the 2008 price in 2021 but as noted below the basses are better and keep getting better.

+ + +

For me, after we cram a complex conversation into the two words "American built," two big things set Upton apart from importer / resellers.

The first is that building 'live' positively affects the entire line including the Standard basses. It's not just that the same people who build the top custom pieces also build the Standard plys (which is true). It's that because the individual owners are standing in the shop the basses improve in real time. If {insert name of importer/reseller here} wants to change something it gets tried out with the next shipping container. At Upton it gets tried out on the next bass just like in any other custom luthiery shop.

The second 'thing' is Jack Hanlon. Jack has planed almost every Upton fingerboard and set-up almost every Upton DB for over fifteen years. He's a true ace: He knows the different ways fingerboard planing and setups work for different people with different musical goals. The Upton purchase price includes not just a setup, not just an ace setup, but that individual buyer's ace setup out of the box. I've been there: I opened the box at a local purchase and Jack stuck the landing (pun intended).


DISCLAIMER: I am proud to represent Upton Bass String Instrument Corp. as its attorney. This is not a neutral post by a neutral poster.

 

[neddyrow]

Upton put on my pickup and strings (didn't charge me for the standard Zyex string they normally put on) and let me upgrade the tuners that the "Upton Standard" uses to Hatpeg tuners. All done and ready before I picked it up.

sounds pretty "customizable" to me.

also...did anyone mention resale value? i'd like to see someone sell a 5-year old Upton and a 5-year old Gollihur and see what the percentage of returns would be on each.

 

[brianrost]

The second 'thing' is Jack Hanlon. Jack has planed almost every Upton fingerboard and set-up almost every Upton DB for over fifteen years. He's a true ace: He knows the different ways fingerboard planing and setups work for different people with different musical goals.

I met "Swinger Jack" Hanlon ablout 25 years ago when he was playing in rockabilly and blues bands. He was using a blonde Englehardt Swingmaster at the time. We tried out each other's basses and we both said "Wow, how do you play this thing?"

The board on his bass had deep ruts under each string, so when fretting notes, the strings would slide into the ruts...very weird. He was using gut strings and slapping like crazy. I asked him how long it took to gouge the board that badly, he told me it had only been about a year Makes sense he's great at planing boards!

The Upton job is a perfect fit for him.