Good stand-alone efficient 15" - Kappalite?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by crunge, Dec 28, 2007.


  1. crunge

    crunge

    Dec 27, 2007
    Colorado
    I've got this old 1980 Carvin 15" bass master cabinet that I'd like to swap in a good (light) full-range efficient speaker, for a stand-alone practice/smll gig setup. Mostly classic rock/old school stuff, but I'd like something punchy enough for occasional modern rock numbers.

    The cab's net internal volume is just over 3 cf (with typical speaker volume subtracted), so I thought a Kappalite 3015 would be a good fit. I might have to add another port, the existing one is only 3" dia.

    Anyone try the Kappalite 3015 for standalone application, or have other speaker recommendations?
     
  2. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    I believe that Eli is using a Kappalite 3015 in his Sonic Micro 115. I'll see if I can draw him into this thread...
     
  3. eli

    eli Mad showoff 7-stringer and Wish lover

    Dec 12, 1999
    NW suburban Chicago
    Of course you can, and indeed I am. I went wth the 3015 as opposed to the 3015LF because of the advertised frequency range; the 3015 is listed as up to 4 kHz while the LF is only up to 1.5 kHz. All other specs are pretty darn close. Got mine at BLTsound.com, and I believe the specs are there too. I thinK the LF might have boasted a dB or two better efficiency in the lower frequencies, but I didn't want to sound in any way muffled. I don't play a real biting sound, but I do like some "air" in my fretless tone.

    I wouldn't go cutting up a perfectly good cab until you check the Thiele-Small parameters with a good program; I'm sure BillyB will be happy to help you find a free download. Even then, put it in and listen to see if you really don't like it.

    Good luck!
     
  4. A9X

    A9X

    Dec 27, 2003
    Australia
    crunge; follow the directions on the Eminence cab pdfs: p3 for the 3015 or p9 for the 3015LF. I'd go for the latter with a 6 or 8" mid crossed over somewhere near 500Hz.

    A 15 (any 15) is going to start beaming above a few hundred Hz, so whilst there might be output at 4k, you'll need to be standing on axis (both planes) within a couple of degrees to hear it.
     
  5. crunge

    crunge

    Dec 27, 2007
    Colorado
    Thanks A9X, I did not know about these.

    So either a 3015 with 2x 4" ports or a 3015L with 4x 3.5" ports would work? I'd better check my baffle.
     
  6. eli

    eli Mad showoff 7-stringer and Wish lover

    Dec 12, 1999
    NW suburban Chicago
    Plenty of bite out of this spk if I want it. Off axis. Usually more than I want, but I wanted it to be available. I usually roll off highs a little at the instrument and the amp. Crunge's question was about a standalone, not a crossed-over multi-spk array.
     
  7. A9X

    A9X

    Dec 27, 2003
    Australia
    The physics is the physics.
    I still made what I felt was the best call application, and the option to move outside of the standard configs can be very liberating and enlightening.
     
  8. Blues Bass 2

    Blues Bass 2 Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2001
    Davenport Iowa
    I've got a 3015 in a DR Bass RX115 cab and it works better than any 115 cabinet I've had.I've used it by itself at a couple of gigs and could hear it real well and our soundman said it covered the rooms pretty well.The 3015 does have good mids for a 15 and in the cab I've got very good bottom.I can tell the speaker does beam because the mids really get better the farther you get from it when it's on the floor but I can still hear it better than the other 115 cabs I've had.It seems the longer I have it the more extended the lows are.Very nice speaker.
     
  9. Kindness

    Kindness

    Oct 1, 2003
    Chicago
    I have a Kappalite 3015 with a 6.5" midrange built by LDS (bottom right):

    IMG_9104.gif

    I requested a 3015LF and appropriately matching 8" midrange, but Don believes that the non-LF works better with the low powered tube amps with which I use the cabinet (mid 70s Ampeg V-4B and custom built Fender Dual Showman Reverb clone). I also believe he found a 6.5" midrange, but getting final specs from him has been impossible... (I'm going to have to tear this sucker apart at some point and figure out what's in it regarding the midrange and crossover).

    As far as sound, it is great. Really a fantastic stand alone cabinet. I is VERY similar to my Acmes (not identical, but closer than any other bass cabinet I've heard), without the extended treble response (no tweeter), but is significantly more efficient. It nearly always gets used with the Showman I built (~80 watts) and that is always enough power for me to get above a pair of guitars, drums and two vocalists. It is a nice cabinet based on a nice speaker. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anyone that is looking for a clear sound with deep extension. To be fair, my cabinet has some serious internal volume. The outer dimensions are 27" x 24" x 16". However, at 46 lbs, it is extremely easy to move.
     
  10. A9X

    A9X

    Dec 27, 2003
    Australia
    Nice cab Kindness.
     
  11. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    How well do you all think a 3015LF would do in a double baffle B-15N cab? Still haven't sorted out my speaker deal for my Fliptops cab. Getting a Beta 15 currently, but if it doesn't change the classic sound, I wouldn't mind a neo for the extra power handling.
     
  12. A9X

    A9X

    Dec 27, 2003
    Australia
    A B15 isn't really suited to a ported box; large sealed perhaps, or even better open baffle. Once I work out how the double baffle works I'll comment, but it looks very Onken.
     
  13. Kindness

    Kindness

    Oct 1, 2003
    Chicago
    Thanks. By using the non-LF I am limited in the amount of power I can feed it in the low end, but as I said, I'm using it with amps between 80 and 120 watts, so it ends up being a perfect performer for the intended application.
     
  14. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    Did you mean the Kappalite isn't suited to the B15N box? Not sure what you mean. Also, what is Onken?
     
  15. A9X

    A9X

    Dec 27, 2003
    Australia
    The Kappalite is probably fine in that it'll work and probably sound very good. I'm skeptical about the B15.

    Onkens are a variation on reflex boxes, usually with a lot of port area.
    http://www.studiomaudio.info/onken.html

    The B15 looks like an Onken in a way from the pic Vin_Sabre posted earlier. Sound enters through the slots in the rear baffle and exits the hole in the front one, sort of like the Onkens in the page I linked, but 90* to them.
     
  16. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    All I can tell you is that I don't particularly care for 15" cabs. Tried a ton of them...the big ones sound flubby to me, and the little ones don't have enough bottom. The double baffle is the ONLY 15" cab I truly like by itself.

    Here's what Jess Oliver says about it on one of his Ebay auctions:

    "I should point out that this amp was made before the bean counters made me change my original double baffle design to a simpler way of extending the path for the rear wave. It's obvious now that we should have left my original design alone. That claim as described in my patent was more deliberate and more efficient towards that end, extending the length of the path for the rear wave, thereby tuning the cabinet. The baffle arrangement allows the frontal wave of the speaker to radiate, while allowing the rear wave to come out of the eight slots in the inner baffle, and then on a path between the baffles and out the front baffle, in the proper phase relationship to smooth out the typical but undesirable low frequency hump in the response curve.
    This piece of history has couple of more features, not yet eliminated or changed by the "bean counters": It has, not just nickel plated, but polished chrome corners and claw bolts. The beautiful piece of woodwork shown in one of the photos is that of the prototype for the reissue of the B15N cabinet, which was made in anticipation of the reissue of the B15N in 2006. (Not B15R, which I think is currently still in the line.) Ampeg engineering and I had that reissue of the B15N, almost ready for the 2006 NAMM Trade Show, but it was shelved by the new bean counters at Ampeg. *I show that bare wood prototype cabinet to help illustrate what double baffle means and how it works."

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Ampeg-B15N-Port...2401890QQihZ013QQcategoryZ10171QQcmdZViewItem

    Those LOUD idiots! Shelving a full-on B-15N reissue! How stupid can you be???? Hell, I don't care if it was made in Vietnam by 6 year olds! I'd get one!
     
  17. Blues Bass 2

    Blues Bass 2 Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2001
    Davenport Iowa
    Hey Jimmy,

    I think you would want the 3015 not the 3015LF for full range if not using a mid driver.The 3015 has extended mids and will work in a smaller box.The 3015 still has very good low end even with the extended midrange.
     
  18. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Jess's concept of how ducted port bass reflex cabs worked was incorrect, though in 1965 the knowledge base was quite limited so it's a very understandable error. Whether a reflex duct is accomplished via a double baffle or by more conventional means the result would be the same as far as bass response is concerned. What would be different is lowered midrange and HF response, due to diffraction effects introduced by the double baffle. The double baffle may sound deeper subjectively, but what's really happening is reduced mids and highs.
     
  19. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Yep, and as you mentioned, the 3015LF needs a larger box anyway.

    Well, in a 3 cf box the 3015 has a very similar low end and just slightly more output per watt compared to TWO DeltaliteII 2510 10" drivers in the same box size/tuning. But unlike them, it won't run out of excursion NEARLY so early below 150 Hz, so within its bandpass it's capable of being a lot louder than a DeltaliteII Tens cab without farting or bass-cut EQing.

    As Fifteens go, it's a great choice for full range use, its axial peak being a bit lower in frequency, and a little smoother than the neo Tens.... As is always the case, the larger driver size lowers the off-axis performance - but for a fifteen lover it should be more than acceptable. And it just won't fart in a good alignment unless you continually run signals that are nearly at or above its thermal limit.

    The comparative figure for that would be around 130 watts for the 210 cab, versus 370 watts for the 115.
     
  20. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Yeah, that small port is going to be a chuffing problem at high levels and lower notes, which if you have the wattage to take advantage of the 3015's capabilities will certainly be the case. You might want to retune the cab to around 55 Hz using several round port tubes so that you achieve not only a 51 to 55 Hz tuning (or so), but alos lower air velocity.

    WinISD Pro will help you with this, and you can find a great variety of port tubes fixed and adjustable at PartsExpress.com
     
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
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